What does "New in The Box" mean to you????
Aug 27, 2002 at 2:57 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 46

Tuberoller

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I recently sold a set of grado SR325 headphones to a member through an ad in the for sale forums.In my ad I stated that the phones were New and unused.They are new and have never been used but the box has been opened to send in the warranty card.The phones have been sent to this member and he emailed me to complain about them even before he got them and has described my description as "dishonest and a play on words".I have never been acused of being anything but completely honest and I usually go far out of my way to describe things accurately and give the best deals possible.I purchased the phones new at full retail three months ago with intentions to have them modded but never got around to it.I sent in the warranty card as I always do,even though I knew I was modifying the phones because it is habit for me and something that I always recommend to my customers/friends.Do you guys think I somehow misled this guy?I am having a hard time with this because it is the very first time I have ever been accused of anything like this.Should I just refund his money?

To add a note,the deal with this guy was all set up and he contacted me afterwards to complain about the free shipping and paypal I later offered to buyers of the other gear,so I refunded his shipping costs in cash(with an envelope enclosed in the box).He also complained about the speed of my shipping even though the phones were shipped less than 36 hours after I was paid for them via paypal.

I don't know guys.Please offer your opinions.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:09 PM Post #2 of 46

andrzejpw

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Hmm, question about the warranty: is it transferable? I mean, if the grados break for him, will they get replaced? Usually, for me, NIB means shrink wrapped, etc. But in this case. . . .

The shipping complaint is absurd. Day and a half after he paid you? What's wrong with that?
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:12 PM Post #3 of 46

JMT

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New = Has never been used

In Box = In the original box

I am curious as to how the purchaser could have issues with your description when the phones had not yet been received.
Quote:

He also complained about the speed of my shipping even though the phones were shipped less than 36 hours after I was paid for them


What did he expect? FedEx Next Day Priority? Based on your description, I see nothing wrong with the transaction. Shipping was timely, description was accurate (never been used and in the original box). Maybe you could have added the line "Box has been opened to send in warranty card."
rolleyes.gif


....just my 2 bits
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:15 PM Post #4 of 46

Beagle

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The person you sold them to obviously saw the seal on the box (white sticker with model # on it) was broken and figured they had been used.

"New in the box" means just that, and it sounds like that's what you sold. It's like a new car is a new car even though it has been driven into the showroom!
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:26 PM Post #5 of 46

JMT

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Quote:

he emailed me to complain about them even before he got them and has described my description as "dishonest and a play on words".


Beagle, according to Tube, the person hadn't even received the phones yet.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:34 PM Post #7 of 46

acs236

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I don't know guys, I can see where the buyer is coming from.

"New in the box" -- is it synonymous with "unopened"? I certainly don't think it's outside the realm of possibilities to equate the two, and considering that the seller is the only one will full knowledge of the product (not to mention getting paid in advance), I believe the seller has to be responsible for any ambiguities.

I certainly would want to know if the product I was buying was opened, even if never used. But I don't think that's the issue here. Here, the buyer thought the product was unopened. The only real issue is whether his belief the NITB meant "unopened." As I said, I think it was at least rational.

It sounds as if the buyer overreacted, though, Tuberoller -- I can see both sides. But in the interest of clarity I think making it known that a product was "opened but not used" is much better of a description than the arguably vague NITB. So, I would refund his money in this case.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:37 PM Post #8 of 46

john_jcb

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If it were me I would expect New and in the box to mean that the item is unopened with all warranty and other info intact.

Sounds more like a slight miscommunication along with a fussy buyer. If he knew the card was missing before hand as it seems he really has no basis for complaint.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:38 PM Post #9 of 46

Budgie

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If this person wants a sealed box, he should be buying from Grado, not from Tuberoller. You did nothing wrong in my opinion. If the phones are in new condition with the original box and paperwork, whats the difference?

When I worked for a small retail shop years ago, no piece of gear was allowed to leave the shop until it was checked out on the bench. We knew that things get damaged in shipping and didn't want to send it out the door till we knew it worked. We thought it was good customer service.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:52 PM Post #10 of 46

Beagle

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Quote:

Originally posted by JMT

Beagle, according to Tube, the person hadn't even received the phones yet.


You're right. I just noticed that.

But why would he complain about them before he got them?

Maybe he can see into the future.

The plot thickens...

Stay tuned.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:55 PM Post #11 of 46

Zurg

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Tuberoller -

Since you asked, here is my two cents:

1. The buyer sounds like a real weiner who simply wants to take advantage of you by whining.

2. A deal is a deal. It does not matter what other shipping benefits you are offering other customers, he committed to the original deal and its' terms. Refunding his shipping was going way above and beyond.

3. The term "New in Box" (NIB). This is cutting a fine line. Technically, your description is not wrong. Most people, however, would assume that NIB means it is the same as buying it off the shelf in a store and that it would include all original items such as the warranty card. Since you seem like an (overly?) honest guy, you should have mentioned that the warranty card was not included, in the interests of full disclosure.

I think you are well within your rights if you simply choose to let this whiner suck eggs. If you really want to go the extra mile you could offer to refund his money, LESS the shipping you already sent him. I strongly recommend you do NOT give him a full refund and eat the shipping costs yourself. It sounds like he is not bargaining in good faith, and therefore should at least bear the burden of shipping/handling costs.

FWIW -Z
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 3:55 PM Post #12 of 46

Budgie

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"New"- Having recently or lately been made,used,developed,etc.;recent.

Nothing in the dictionary says that "new" means "unused". Closest thing I can find to "unused" in the definitions of "new" is "Fresh; unspoiled". Thats not the same as "unused", though.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 4:00 PM Post #13 of 46

2 channel

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Quote:

Originally posted by Budgie
If this person wants a sealed box, he should be buying from Grado, not from Tuberoller. You did nothing wrong in my opinion. If the phones are in new condition with the original box and paperwork, whats the difference?


I agree with Budgie. If the phones were unused, whats the complaint? Grado is very user friendly as far as repairs. I had a pair of 225s I bought used and they had a connection problem on one side. I called Grado and they repaired my phones for free no questions asked.

Don't worry Tuberoller, we know youre a good guy!

2
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 4:26 PM Post #14 of 46

acs236

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Quote:

Originally posted by Budgie
"New"- Having recently or lately been made,used,developed,etc.;recent.

Nothing in the dictionary says that "new" means "unused". Closest thing I can find to "unused" in the definitions of "new" is "Fresh; unspoiled". Thats not the same as "unused", though.


I think you might be losing sight of the big picture: Was it reasonable for the buyer to think that "new in the box" meant "unopened"?

I think you're right to the extent that the product sold by Tuberoller may technically be "new in the box", however, because only the seller knows the exact condition of the item he is selling, the risk of ambiguity has to fall on the seller.

I agree that the buyer might be overreacting, and maybe Tuberoller shouldn't be on the hook for the shipping (if the buyer wants a refund, let him send it back), but in the age of online buying, I advocate a higher level of responsibility on sellers. I think it's in everyone's best interest.
 
Aug 27, 2002 at 5:00 PM Post #15 of 46
[size=xx-small] Quote:

Originally posted by acs236
I think you might be losing sight of the big picture: Was it reasonable for the buyer to think that "new in the box" meant "unopened"?

I think you're right to the extent that the product sold by Tuberoller may technically be "new in the box", however, because only the seller knows the exact condition of the item he is selling, the risk of ambiguity has to fall on the seller.

I agree that the buyer might be overreacting, and maybe Tuberoller shouldn't be on the hook for the shipping (if the buyer wants a refund, let him send it back), but in the age of online buying, I advocate a higher level of responsibility on sellers. I think it's in everyone's best interest.


[/size]

First of all, I don't think Tuberoller was at all attempting to deceive the buyer.

But I also think, as acs236 stated, that the buyer made a reasonable interpretation of the description "Grado SR325 headphones-New in Box and unused.$190.00". If the buyer made a reasonable interpretation of the description as it was being offered, but that difffers from how the seller saw it, then there's some ambiguity here. Assuming a reasonable interpretation by the buyer, then, as most often happens, the ambiguity is usually interpreted against the drafter (Tuberoller).

Do I think Tuberoller was being dishonest or trying to make a play on words? No. Do I think the term "New in Box" should be used without some further clarification if the box is opened and the warranty card missing? No. If the description said something like "New in box (box was opened, warranty card sent, but the headphones have never been used)", then there'd be no ambiguity or possibility to reasonably interpret the description any differently than as it was drafted.

What's the remedy I would suggest? (Obviously, I have no authority in this matter -- it's between buyer and seller.) I'd suggest that the seller offers the buyer the opportunity to return the headphones. The seller has already included $10 in the box, so shipping should already be covered by that ten bucks if the buyer chooses to exercise that option (assuming a return option was offered). Again, that's just a suggestion.

In this case, I think both parties meant well, and both meant to act in good faith, but that there was a misunderstanding regarding the condition of the merchandise due to the aforementioned ambiguity.
 

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