[MWSVette]

Of course meant in only the nicest way...

 

[478773]

"We are"? Dude, I am here too. I am not a millennial and I rarely listen to classical music.
And before anyone claims it again - it's not "your" lawn. It's Mike's lawn. I'll leave only when he tells me so. As a product manager he probably wants to hear all kinds of opinions from potential customers. Not only from people who call themselves "we are". Sounds almost like "we are Borg and you will be assimilated".

A couple of things here - the lawn thing is a joke people do when they are apologetic about their seemingly antiquated or possible wrong opinion - none of that here.

As a classical fan I have seen that art from disappear from the cultural landscape, and we as a society are poorer for it. The only thing we have left is the cliche of pop artists adding a string section to MIME to a sampled one, when they want to add a touch of classiness and maybe some pathos...

You seen my avatar - I love King Crimson - yet I am horrified when they are hold in high regard by people who could not tell Johann Strauss from Richard Strauss... I mean, I love prog - yet in the circle of my classical friends it is a guilty pleasure. You won't believe the flak that I get for being a prog fan - specially about those those who think that the 22 min "Close to the Edge" is the apex of musical sophistication - I am constantly reminded that is just a short Haydn symphony... not to mention the actual music...

I doubt the baby boomers in power right now have any interest/knowledge on/of it - much less Gen-X , Y or the millennials... This valuable cultural heritage that has been forgotten and even worse, sometimes vilified... So no promotion...

So yes, I wish you all could be assimilated! That way a CD transport will be the perfect product for the collective, not just for "us"

 

[478773]

The only complete sets I have are that "Carnegie Hall Presents" set of Bernie's first thoughts, the Tilson-Thomas, the Gielen, and the Boulez. The rest are partial, or almost complete when possible, sets from just about every conductor that did a Mahler recording. I'm also partial to Klemperer and Abbado and some of Rattle's, Haitinks 3rd, Solti's and Barbirolli's 5ths, VK's 9's. And Tennstedt, how can I forget him. I wish I sometimes wish Barshai had done more Mahler recordings.No one conductor ever got them all right to my satisfaction. But Bernie's boy soprano 4th was an epic fail. I heard it on a radio broadcast (I think) at some point and all I could think of was Dennis the Menace. I still like the simplicity of Judith Raskin with Szell on that old CBS recording for the 4th.

Indeed - Lennie's DG 4th is kind of painful to hear - specially because it is actually one of the better DGs, up to and including the 3rd movement. - The live Mahler 4th DG DVD with Edith Mathis is a bit too tame - yet Edith makes a big difference in the finale....
The Szell is a good one - the Walter New York also holds a special place in my heart. Of the current ones, I am currently in love with Ivan Fischer's and Johnathan Nott's, both in glorious SACD sound...

I have all the cycles you mention, however I own no Barshai Mahler recordings for whatever reason... his Shosty cycle with the german orchestra is one for the ages, though... But after living with all those cycles for a while, I am always looking for something that will surprise me in that repertory... hence my current infatuation with Bertini, Neumann and yes Segerstam's - which is weird; hard to find a positive review... it's so odd - yet that makes it appealing to me...

v

 

[FLTWS]

Indeed - Lennie's DG 4th is kind of painful to hear - specially because it is actually one of the better DGs, up to and including the 3rd movement. - The live Mahler 4th DG DVD with Edith Mathis is a bit too tame - yet Edith makes a big difference in the finale....
The Szell is a good one - the Walter New York also holds a special place in my heart. Of the current ones, I am currently in love with Ivan Fischer's and Johnathan Nott's, both in glorious SACD sound...

I have all the cycles you mention, however not Barshai Mahler recordings for whatever reason... his Shosty cycle with german orchestra is one for the ages, though... But after living with all those cycles for a while, I am always looking for something that will surprise me in that repertory... hence my current infatuation with Bertini, Neumann and yes Segerstam's - which is weird; hard to find a positive review... it's odd - yet that makes it appealing to me...
v

Barshai's Shosokovich complete is the best of the available symphony cycles to me. His Mahler 5th and 10th on Brilliant Classic are excellent. While we will never know Mahler's final thoughts on the 10th I accept it as an indication of where he was pointing and there's a lot of Mahler in it to enjoy and that's enough for me.

The magic of Mahler's symphonies is that they are open to such a wide variety of viewpoints and different interpretations that can make an effective, satisfying, and lasting impression. That could also be why there may never be a definitive Mahler symphony performance, but, as a dedicated Mahler-ite I continue to search and wait for the unobtainable. It's always about the quest.

 

[alpovs]

do what works for you, and don't judge others.

Precisely!

 

[478773]

Barshai's Shosokovich complete is the best of the available symphony cycles to me. His Mahler 5th and 10th on Brilliant Classic are excellent. While we will never know Mahler's final thoughts on the 10th I accept it as an indication of where he was pointing and there's a lot of Mahler in it to enjoy and that's enough for me.

Will start looking for those recordings - I believe the 10th is Barshai's own completion - if I am not mistaken. There is a train of thought that states that Mahler was moving towards a style similar to Shostakovich's and that Barshai's completion reflects that. In sense, taking the same journey Zemlinsky took - from expresionistic post-romanticism to new objectivity...

The magic of Mahler's symphonies is that they are open to such a wide variety of viewpoints and different interpretations that can make an effective, satisfying, and lasting impression. That could also be why there may never be a definitive Mahler symphony performance, but, as a dedicated Mahler-ite I continue to search and wait for the unobtainable. It's always about the quest.

No debate here - well said...

v

 

[rkw]

As a classical fan I have seen that art from disappear from the cultural landscape, and we as a society are poorer for it. The only thing we have left is the cliche of pop artists adding a string section to MIME to a sampled one, when they want to add a touch of classiness and maybe some pathos...

I have a rather different view. Classical music fans have expressed the same lament for generations, but I'm not convinced that anything has been changing. It has always been the case that only a minuscule proportion of the population knows the difference between Richard vs Johann Strauss. Look at classical music played on radio stations, and sales of classical recordings over the decades. Those have always been a tiny (but steady) proportion of the market — it's not as though classical was popular in the past and steadily dropping. It's easy to forget how niche of an audience we are. I attended one of the most prestigious colleges in the country, and in my long career I have worked with very intelligent, well educated colleagues. Yet in all these years I have never even once had a discussion in person about the merits of different Mahler recordings.

Classical music has never been more available. There doesn't seem to be much love for streaming music in this thread, but for me it is a dream come true. I am free to explore more composers, musicians, and recordings than was ever possible. One example: NY Philharmonic have released recordings of live concerts from their archives. In an instant, I can call up Rafael Kubelik conducting the NYP in a live performance of the Mahler 7, or other NYP performances with Szell, Klemperer, Solti, Reiner etc. Every week, I am exposed to composers and music new to me (last week, the Latvian composer Pēteris Vasks) and musicians (violinist Patricia Kopatchinskaja). For me as a consumer, the classical music scene has never been better.

 

[RCBinTN]

Well stated, @rkw. Do you know your avatar disappeared?

I don't listen to much classical music these days, but I do have recordings of several Mahler (and other) symphonies.
My wife and I attended Mahler's Sixth performed by the Nashville Symphony...spectacular.

A great thing about Head-Fi is the forum provides an opportunity to learn about classical music, should we choose to.
We can also learn about metal music, as well...

The Listening thread is a fine resource for me!
I often see classical music posted over there by @Quinto and others...a good library of what folks enjoy.

Best -
RCB

 

[earnmyturns]

There doesn't seem to be much love for streaming music in this thread, but for me it is a dream come true. I am free to explore more composers, musicians, and recordings than was ever possible. One example: NY Philharmonic have released recordings of live concerts from their archives. In an instant, I can call up Rafael Kubelik conducting the NYP in a live performance of the Mahler 7, or other NYP performances with Szell, Klemperer, Solti, Reiner etc. Every week, I am exposed to composers and music new to me (last week, the Latvian composer Pēteris Vasks) and musicians (violinist Patricia Kopatchinskaja). For me as a consumer, the classical music scene has never been better.

I agree with your general point (same for jazz since the 60s, which is my favorite music) but streaming has a very serious negative impact on the ability of all but the most popular musicians to make a living. Most musicians, classical and jazz, are being squeezed by streaming out of already meager recorded music royalties, and are ever more dependent on live performances and teaching, which are highly variable sources of income.

 

[478773]

t — it's not as though classical was popular in the past and steadily dropping. It's easy to forget how niche of an audience we are. I attended one of the most prestigious colleges in the country, and in my long career I have worked with very intelligent, well educated colleagues. Yet in all these years I have never even once had a discussion in person about the merits of different Mahler recordings.
.

Well... two different things - first of all, your statements re: the classical music market are only true from, I would say, the 90s and forward (pls don't think I mean it as a put-down, I really don't, but you must be a young guy)... The classical music market was once way bigger and not a niche market/concern. Yes, there is more of availability, in terms of reach and selection... and definitely of information in these days, thanks to the net. I remember coming to LA and making the Tower Classical Annex a de riguer stop - because before the net, that was the only way to access a fairly big catalog... Not to mention info on releases only being available on magazines, which in addition to monthly publishing also had a big lead time - again, now with the internet we know immediately - so much, magazines are dying... Thanks to the internet now any small town has the access that used to be exclusive to bit cities!

Then again that is true of almost any endeavor/interest, be it classical music, crocheting or cat milking... and that is the problem. I was not talking about access/market (although for all its accessibility the classical market is minuscule) I am talking about cultural relevancy. That is completely lost. There was a time when fairly educated people could whistle tunes to Beethoven Symphonies, ask Toscanini for autographs and yes buy classical records in quantities enough to make classical market a very significant one. It used to be Carmina Burana was more than a epicness signifier for cheesy commercials... again, there used to be a time where an epic Tristan made to the frontpage of the newspaper... I am old now - and I am still one the youngest persons at the opera, a little less at the symphony, but still...

Now we live in a time where Kendrick Lamar wins Pulitzer prices... where the Kennedy Honors are dominated by pop musicians... we live in in a time where Mick Jagger and Elton John were knighted; yet, that indefatigable champion of British music Vernon Handley died without a "Sir" in front of his name - SHAMEFUL - just because that boomer Tony Blair knows nothing but pop.

Yes, I am grateful for the access I have now. Yet unfortunately, the boomers and subsequent generations have abandoned classical music - as a culturally relevant art from - its era is over

v

 

[rkw]

Well stated, @rkw. Do you know your avatar disappeared?

I made it that way (created a gray square matching the background), to be different.

first of all, your statements re: the classical music market are only true from, I would say, the 90s and forward (pls don't think I mean it as a put-down, I really don't, but you must be a young guy)... The classical music market was once way bigger and not a niche market/concern.

No, I'm not young at all — I turn 62 this year. I became a classical music fan in the '70s and the height of my fanaticism was in the '80s when I had subscriptions to Gramophone, Fanfare, and American Record Guide all at the same time (to those unfamiliar, they are magazines devoted to reviews of classical recordings and concerts). I was making weekly trips to Tower Records — they had several stores in the Bay Area and I would go to all of them because they had different inventories of high quality imported LP pressings.

My experience is different from yours. Then, as now, I perceived classical music as a small market. It was always difficult to find people interested in classical music, and it has been a largely solitary pursuit. Heck, not even my wife and daughter have much interest. There were countless times when I was the only customer in the classical section at Tower Records. Pretty remarkable that they devoted so much floor space to classical.

 

[478773]

I made it that way (created a gray square matching the background), to be different.

No, I'm not young at all — I turn 62 this year. I became a classical music fan in the '70s and the height of my fanaticism was in the '80s when I had subscriptions to Gramophone, Fanfare, and American Record Guide all at the same time (to those unfamiliar, they are magazines devoted to reviews of classical recordings and concerts). I was making weekly trips to Tower Records — they had several stores in the Bay Area and I would go to all of them because they had different inventories of high quality imported LP pressings.

My experience is different from yours. Then, as now, I perceived classical music as a small market. It was always difficult to find people interested in classical music, and it has been a largely solitary pursuit. Heck, not even my wife and daughter have much interest. There were countless times when I was the only customer in the classical section at Tower Records. Pretty remarkable that they devoted so much floor space to classical.

First of all, lemme tell you, indeed you are young!

It does look like we are talking about the same thing. I think you post above supports my theory that the current debacle became set around the early 90s. I do think that the market reduction came AFTER the loss of cultural relevancy. That said the glory days I was talking about lasted up until around 1970, I think - I agree that at least from the 80s and on the writing was on the wall... and yes hard to find other fans... So again, same phenomenon, probably even the same experience ( I too was a Gramophone, ARG, Fanfare, and IRR subscriber, my trips to the Classical Annex on Sunset in L.A. were monthly, thank god for my job that allow me to do so). So all in all, I think we agree in that - I was just talking about an earlier time.

Where we disagree is that the existence of a minuscule, not so healthy but accessible market means that the art form is still culturally relevant, unfortunately it is not and I wish it was...

Bay area? a perfect example - now in the Bay Area comic books and star wars are high culture...

v

 

[Baldr]

Well, I hope the below is thought provoking narrative. Out in the boonies where I live, it is very common for folks to have firearms. There are numerous small pests, such as ground squirrels, gophers, etc. and many more onerous larger ones such as coyotes and bobcats (which can bring down animals as large as mules, to say nothing of chickens). My neighbor Bob bought a small shotgun to cope with the likes of these pests and described the California Firearms Card and the test required to get it. I could not believe how stupid the questions he described were. Even though I was not in the market to buy any firearms, I decided to go take the test to see how stupid the questions really were.

Damn if he wasn’t right. The questions were so common sense that someone, even if not an infantry vet such as myself, in fact someone who had any firearm training, never been hunting, seen or handled any firearm (or even BB gun), baited a fishing hook, or ever worn a boot could easily pass. My favorite question was how to safely carry a rifle, do you carry it: 1 - Loaded, safety off, pointing in front of you. 2 - Loaded, safety off, pointing behind you. 3 – Loaded, safety off, pointing to your side. 4 – None of the above. The other 24 questions were equally ludicrous. All of a sudden many stupid firearm accidents were explained. Yes, firearms are very dangerous without, and sometimes even with training. So why do I bring this up?

I was hanging out at Schiit in our repair area which had a dominant population of tube amps. Naomi was reading aloud some of the letters describing the failures and the client’s remedies. Well, it seems that training is equally important for tube users. After all, I am 69 years old and lived through the era of tube to solid state transition when I was in my twenties. So, as it seems that younger users could benefit from a tube quiz. Verbally, I formed many of the questions and requested ideas on more questions. Below is the finished quiz. I shall post correct answers on my next post.



Tube Quiz

1. Your uncle Bob gives you a box of old tubes. You stick them:
   1. On eBay with a $1 million reserve
      
      
   2. In any random amplifier
      
      
   3. Up your ass
      
      
   4. In nothing at all until you look up the tube numbers and determine if they’ll work in your amp
2. Your amp has been happily running for a couple of hours using the stock tube. You want to try the fancy-pants new tube you bought for a trillion dollars. You:
   1. Swap the tubes while the amp is still on and your speakers/headphones connected
      
      
   2. Turn off the amp and immediately pull out the blazing-hot tube.
      
      
   3. Turn off the amp, wait for the tube to cool down, and then swap the tube
      
      
   4. Reflect on the amount of money you paid for your new tube and commit suicide
3. All 8-pin tubes fit all 8-pin sockets, so they’re all fine to swap.
   1. True
      
      
   2. False
4. To check the temperature of an operating tube, it’s best to use:
   1. Your dick
      
      
   2. A $6000 FLIR thermal imaging camera with a current certificate of calibration
      
      
   3. If the plate ain’t glowing, you’re fine, keep your damn fingers off it
      
      
   4. Your tongue
5. When inserting 8-pin tubes, you should:
   1. Carefully align the key to the notch to ensure proper operation
      
      
   2. Gently pound it in if it doesn’t go in easily, tubes should be simpler to use, damnit
      
      
   3. Break the key off the bottom of the tube so it goes in any way, and try all alignments for the best sound
      
      
   4. Give up and sell the amp, solid state is best
6. All nine-pin tubes have exactly the same pinouts and work the same in all amps, so feel free to swap any type for another
   1. True
      
      
   2. False
7. Using the wrong tube in an amplifier can cause:
   1. Damage to the amp
      
      
   2. Damage to the tube
      
      
   3. Damage to all your other gear
      
      
   4. All of the above
8. You plugged in a new tube and it doesn’t glow after the amp is turned on. You should:
   1. Immediately clear the room; it might explode
      
      
   2. Connect all your other gear to it to see if you can make it work
      
      
   3. Turn off the amp and remove the tube; check to see if the old tube still works
      
      
   4. Try a fancy power cable—it may just need better power
9. For a US-made noval or octal tube, numbers that start with 6 usually indicate a 6V heater, while 12 indicates a 12V heater.
   1. True
      
      
   2. False
10. Tubes were invented by:
    1. Aliens. Everything really comes from aliens.
       
       
    2. Lee DeForest
       
       
    3. John Fleming
       
       
    4. Nikola Tesla, he invented everything! And he talked to aliens, too! Told you everything goes back to aliens!

 

[johnjen]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

JJ

 

[Ripper2860]

Ummmm. This is all because I bought a Lyr 3, isn't it?