[Baldr]

  When I read the op’s thoughts on tuning and Melodyne I took him up on his suggest to research a bit.   In doing so, came across this item from their home page:
 
“Working with Melodyne is like being able to say to a vocalist “sing this note a bit longer” or to a pianist “give slightly less weight to the third in this chord” – hours, weeks, even years after the recording session.”
 
And if it begins there, what is next, where does it end, and how far from the artist.
 
I find (perhaps mistakenly) in Baldr's comments the feeling that artist is being lost.   Lost not only in being helped out by the music biz focused on commercial success, but also lost in being displaced by commercialized puppets.   There’s no room for new Lovett’s, new Joplins.  

+10000

 

[disastermouse]

  When I read the op’s thoughts on tuning and Melodyne I took him up on his suggest to research a bit.   In doing so, came across this item from their home page:
 
“Working with Melodyne is like being able to say to a vocalist “sing this note a bit longer” or to a pianist “give slightly less weight to the third in this chord” – hours, weeks, even years after the recording session.”
 
And if it begins there, what is next, where does it end, and how far from the artist.
 
I find (perhaps mistakenly) in Baldr's comments the feeling that artist is being lost.   Lost not only in being helped out by the music biz focused on commercial success, but also lost in being displaced by commercialized puppets.   There’s no room for new Lovett’s, new Joplins.  

I don't think this is true, artistically. Recording integrity, maybe - but there's so much great indie music out there artistically.
 
If you haven't heard The Magnetic Fields '69 Love Songs', you're missing out. No saxophone, though. Well, maybe on 'Love is Like Jazz', but that's a throwaway.
 
The first track ('Absolutely Cuckoo') perfectly describes love as a Borderline.

 

[RCBinTN]

  What is interesting is that the most folks under 30 aren't "listening" to music anymore. It is primarily background or white noise.  I remember doing this a bit when I was younger but then I would sit down with friends and actually listen to the music.  I see this at work and at home.  I have two kids in their 20's and have discussed this with them.  They both agreed.  My son still really listens to music on occasion but he only listens to rock from the 60's-70's.  My daughter will listen to the current music but she commented that she doesn't really pay attention to it since there isn't much to which to pay attention.  They also agreed that this is why they haven't purchased any music made in the past decade. My daughter rents her music.  She is also getting into more traditional Country music which I found interesting.  She says that it is more "real". I'm still decoding this last statement. 
 
Pretty soon, pop music will be created by an algorithm and the "artist" is only there for show and dance.  Actually, looking at some of Brittany Spears and Miley Cyrus  YouTube videos it looks like we might already be there. 

 
I fully agree with this observation.
 
To wit - my grandkids (dating myself) are 8 and 12 and, while they listen to music and watch music videos constantly, they are not at all interested in the quality of the sound.  They are interested in the beat, the bling, if their friends know the song, and whether the sound enables dance.  They do, however, listen to and remember the vocals, which may support the use of auto tune to make the singers sound on key. I can't argue with the result - they love it and will buy it when older.  Critical listening is certainly not happening at this age group.  The one time I put my LCD-X on the 12-year old's head with Eddie Van Halen cranking, she thought it was OK for about 12 seconds.
 
Audiophile grade music may be a declining genre.
 
FWIW,
RCB

 

[johnjen]

You know what? I'm not comfortable with my hatred of saxophones in modern music. Can someone suggest something I might like that's well recorded?

I mainly listen to indie, alternative, electronic, and heavily lyric-focused music (but not much hip hop).

Have you heard Overwerk?
Its EDM, well, that is how its 'classified' but it is decent music, at least to my ears.
And yeah it is compressed WAY too much, but it does have prodigious bass and some rather interesting harmonic signatures.

JJ

 

[Baldr]

  Her live BluRay is great, I don't know if they apply that kind of processing in that format.  She really does sound fantastic on it but she's almost as salty as Baldr.

Referring to the Adele video disk above, if the auto tune is there, it will be audible - no vibrato or the voice finding the pitch.

 

[Baldr]

 My daughter rents her music.  She is also getting into more traditional Country music which I found interesting.  She says that it is more "real". I'm still decoding this last statement. 

There are several forms of music related to country that since the 90's, have been called alt-country or "no depression" which seems to have merged/morphed into "Americana".  Lucinda Williams, Folk Uke (Willy Nelson's and Arlo Guthrie's daughters singing in harmony), are some of my favorite females, Social Distortion, Uncle Tupelo, and The Band are fantastic groups, and finally Alejandro Escovedo, James McMurtry, and Chip Taylor are all great male singers.  Townes Van Zandt is perhaps the most eloquent author of songs of the genre.  Related is the Outlaw country genre of Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, and Waylon Jennings.
 
You rarely find autotune in the Americana genre.  Real feelings and few dogs dying while you're drunk and thinking about mama driving your truck.
 
Yecch -- pop country really sux.  Come to think of it - all pop sux.

 

[NightFlight]

Unfortunately the machine has taken over POP for the most part. Its where the money is, so its where the snake lies. Sometimes I think its like an evolutionary race between maker ( note the lack of the word artist) and the the listener.  "Buy my recording." says the maker.  "**** off" says the listener. But it sells enough and makes enough for the next project. But now they've been around around enough there's a whole generations who don't know better.  Myself I'm a terrible student of music. I think I know less than most, who are self-educated.  When the topic comes up with the neophytes they are completely baffled, or at least hesitant to understand my interpretation of "Music" and why I listen. My wife and child included.
 
Ultimately it comes down to why. Why are you making music? The answer results in the difference between what is real expression and noise.

 

[GearMe]

There are several forms of music related to country that since the 90's, have been called alt-country or "no depression" which seems to have merged/morphed into "Americana".  Lucinda Williams, Folk Uke (Willy Nelson's and Arlo Guthrie's daughters singing in harmony), are some of my favorite females, Social Distortion, Uncle Tupelo, and The Band are fantastic groups, and finally Alejandro Escovedo, James McMurtry, and Chip Taylor are all great male singers.  Townes Van Zandt is perhaps the most eloquent author of songs of the genre.  Related is the Outlaw country genre of Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, and Waylon Jennings.

You rarely find autotune in the Americana genre.  Real feelings and few dogs dying while you're drunk and thinking about mama driving your truck.

Yecch -- pop country really sux.  Come to think of it - all pop sux.

Not a country fan growing up but my tastes have broadened over time adding genres along the way...starting with Rock ==> Progressive Rock ==> Southern Rock, and then more or less in order -- Jazz, Singer/Songwriters, Big Band, some Classical, Blues, Bluegrass, some Hip Hop, and finally Country.

Truth is there are great performers in all genres and what it really comes down to is 'can I connect in some way with a song'? For me, some Country artists do that every bit as well as the Blues, Jazz, and Rock greats do.

Oddly enough, Willie is one of those guys. Even though I think his voice sucks compared to many other Country artists, I have several of his CD's. One of my favorite Willie CD's (Stardust) isn't even all that Country.

Not a fan of Johnny Cash to speak of but some of his songs are just 'real'. -- kinda like an earlier poster's daughter said.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt1Pwfnh5pc[/VIDEO]


The NIN versions are haunting as well...especially Trent Reznor's unplugged version.

 

[kstuart]

Truth is there are great performers in all genres and what it really comes down to is 'can I connect in some way with a song'?

+1
 
Pop is short for popular.   Popular means that more people connect in some way with a song .
 
In many cases, this means because the music is less sophisticated - because the average person spends less of their life giving attention to music - than you or I.
 
A big part of the problem is that music classes were removed from schools in the US.  This is why most of the new melodic music is written by Scandinavians - because they still have music classes in school.

 

[madwolfa]

  A big part of the problem is that music classes were removed from schools in the US.  This is why most of the new melodic music is written by Scandinavians - because they still have music classes in school.

 
Who needs musical schools when you have reality shows like "The Rap Game" and "Growing Up Hip Hop". Yo.

 

[GearMe]

Yep...had music up through Middle School and took piano lessons as a kid as well. It definitely helped my appreciation for music as did the constant stream of Brubeck, Monk, Lewis, Montgomery, etc. playing from my Dad's Telefunken Console!

That said, while I'm not a big 'Pop' fan, many of the moving songs in Rock...or even Blues are not really all that sophisticated (except for solos) but somehow they resonate with me -- which I rarely get out of a Pop song.

Emotion, timing, and other 'artistic overtones' seem to have gone missing in the mainstream Pop songs!

 

[madwolfa]

There used to be a quality pop too... Michael Jackson, Madonna comes to mind. Whitney Houston...

 

[Ableza]

Wow that logic is a little, uh, strained?  If lack of music education is responsible for the supposed recent degradation of pop music, how do you explain the Archies' "Sugar Sugar" being number one in 1969? Or "A Tisket a Tasket" being a major hit in 1938?  I think the truth is more likely that "popular music" has always been a very different animal from other genre, and has always been less cerebral or meaningful or complex.  Today's pop music is simply the modern version of the same old stuff.

 

[GearMe]

Yep...Jackson had 'it'; not a Madonna fan but she certainly had a huge following...listened more to Raitt, Chapman, Nicks, Heart, Benatar, Aretha, etc. in the 80s/90s

 

[GearMe]

...I think the truth is more likely that "popular music" has always been a very different animal from other genre, and has always been less cerebral or meaningful or complex.  Today's pop music is simply the modern version of the same old stuff.

Yeah...I'd agree with that; as long as it's got that 'hook' and it makes you...


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM[/VIDEO]


I know, I know, I'm now officially banned from the thread!

Hmmm...never started a thread in Head-Fi; thinking about starting the "Official Earworm" thread