[tomscy2000]

  I don't get it, to me, the perfect sound signature should be a neutral and balanced sounding one. UM3x got it, and what could be improved would be lower extension of bass and more refined details in the high frequencies. The definition of High Fidelity is  the reproduction of sound with little distortion, giving a result very similar to the original, it's not supposed to be creative, it's supposed to be faithful reproduction of the original. I think that's what these reference monitors were designed for in the first place, they are supposed to be designed for musicians and sound engineers.

 
The UM3X/Pro30 is designed for warmth on the stage, not as a neutral studio reference. The UM3X does not have a neutral signature, and neither does the W60. The UM Pro50 and W50 are incredibly colored.
 
The closest Westone has to a neutral signature is probably the W20. Turn your ARK03's bass knob all the way down. That's close to neutral.
 
IMO, the SE846 is still overpriced, but it's a far better buy (and more versatile) than the W60.

 

[Danz03]

Have you actually heard what reference monitors in mixing or mastering studios sounded like? And what exactly do you mean by 'designed for warmth on the stage'?
 
Quote:

   
The UM3X/Pro30 is designed for warmth on the stage, not as a neutral studio reference. The UM3X does not have a neutral signature, and neither does the W60. The UM Pro50 and W50 are incredibly colored.
 
The closest Westone has to a neutral signature is probably the W20. Turn your ARK03's bass knob all the way down. That's close to neutral.
 
IMO, the SE846 is still overpriced, but it's a far better buy (and more versatile) than the W60.

 

[tomscy2000]

 Have you actually heard what reference monitors in mixing or mastering studios sounded like?

 
Yes. NS10, Genelecs, Alesis. As well as high-end speakers (Tannoy, Focal, Burmester, etc.) in treated rooms.
 

 And what exactly do you mean by 'designed for warmth on the stage'?

 

Stage IEMs usually recede the upper midrange for two reasons: (1) lessens long-term fatigue, (2) psychoacoustically brings forward vocal fundamentals.
 
This is a common trend that occurs across many brands.

 

[milford30]

   
I agree. Definitely not next level stuff. Westone is far too concerned with preserving their house sound that they're really not innovating. They've made improvements to build quality and ergonomics, but have stayed completely stagnant in the sound department. I've been very disappointed in the all of Westone's recent releases except for the ES5.

I agree, the warm sound immediately reminds me of the w4r warm sound.
 
Judging from the w40 problems and holding the plastic in my hands, I disagree on the build quality and ergonomics, ergonomics wise i don't feel a difference. build quality wise read the "New WESTONE W-SERIES" and other threads, the w40 and w60 looks the same to me. I actually shut the car door when the w4r fell out of my pocket, the nozzle bent, I just had to get a pair of pliers, nudge them back and they still work perfectly! the new w series feels like the shell will just crack.

 

[tomscy2000]

  I agree, the warm sound immediately reminds me of the w4r warm sound. Judging from the w40 problems and holding the plastic in my hands, I disagree on the build quality and ergonomics, ergonomics wise i don't feel a difference. build quality wise read the "New WESTONE W-SERIES" and other threads, the w40 and w60 looks the same to me. I actually shut the car door when the w4r fell out of my pocket, the nozzle bent, I just had to get a pair of pliers, nudge them back and they still work perfectly! the new w series feels like the shell will just crack.

 
Well, I meant that the new W series is a little better fitting in my ears than do older models. With respect to build quality, the polycarbonate plastic they use feels a little more solid, with better tolerances. For the asking price of the W50 and W60, though, the shells are definitely not up to snuff, which is why it's all the more sad that the W60 is so expensive. It is incrementally better than the W40, but not by much. If people want an IEM in the same form factor as Westone and Shure, they should take a hard look at the Nuforce Primo 8. For $499, it's by far the best buy of the bunch compared to all the other similar offerings I've seen in terms of sound quality. Even the new Audiofly Performance Series looks underwhelming.
 
Shure spent a lot of time tweaking the acoustic system of the SE846, and while the asking price is steep and the sound is still imperfect, at least you know you're paying for the effort of engineers that spent time figuring out how to port the bass in the way that they did, as well as the exchangeable filter nozzles. The W60, on the other hand is still the same kind of standard manifold tuning as before. There is actually no innovation going on. It's not difficult to stuff more drivers in. I know how that works. Two TWFK-sized drivers and a DTEC sized driver is relatively easy to fit in that space. I've heard a lot of BA IEMs, and to me, the W60's tuning is crude compared to what can be done these days. Westone needs to stop living in 2006.

 

[davidcotton]

It almost seems as if westone hit a home run as it were with the previous range and were unsure as to how to go about the next updates.  Combine that with presumed budget cuts (ala trying to turn a profit in the current economic environment) and that's where the issues lie.  All imho of course.

 

[milford30]

  It almost seems as if westone hit a home run as it were with the previous range and were unsure as to how to go about the next updates.  Combine that with presumed budget cuts (ala trying to turn a profit in the current economic environment) and that's where the issues lie.  All imho of course.

 
I feel just aimed for people with w4r to upgrade to w60 so they kept the house sound, from the time i had with them, there are wow moments just like the w4r, but they are far and few between because of the warm and smooth signature. It's more suited to the classical crowd. Whereas Shure actually did something to kick their competition in the nuts.
 
You can't blame anything on budget cuts, if you do, just quit and shut down shop while you're ahead.

 

[Spyro]

Last 10 posts or so really great stuff.  I totally agree.
 
When it was W2, W3, UM3X and to some extent W4, you had 4 fairly different sounding IEM's to cover all preferences.   That all seems sort of out the window now and everything is a variation of the main Westone theme maybe anchored off W4/W40.
 
Regarding UM3X, I read a review from Nicole at Earphone Solutions that really opened my eyes and she hit it right on.  It's not really neutral.  The beat and the drums (lower mids-upper bass) are in the forefront and very dominant.  If you listen on the louder side it is almost too much and not as balanced as one would think.  Very noticeable if you listen to W4/W40 and UM3X/Pro3 back to back.

 

[abchead]

 
Well, I meant that the new W series is a little better fitting in my ears than do older models. With respect to build quality, the polycarbonate plastic they use feels a little more solid, with better tolerances. For the asking price of the W50 and W60, though, the shells are definitely not up to snuff, which is why it's all the more sad that the W60 is so expensive. It is incrementally better than the W40, but not by much. If people want an IEM in the same form factor as Westone and Shure, they should take a hard look at the Nuforce Primo 8. For $499, it's by far the best buy of the bunch compared to all the other similar offerings I've seen in terms of sound quality. Even the new Audiofly Performance Series looks underwhelming.
 
Shure spent a lot of time tweaking the acoustic system of the SE846, and while the asking price is steep and the sound is still imperfect, at least you know you're paying for the effort of engineers that spent time figuring out how to port the bass in the way that they did, as well as the exchangeable filter nozzles. The W60, on the other hand is still the same kind of standard manifold tuning as before. There is actually no innovation going on. It's not difficult to stuff more drivers in. I know how that works. Two TWFK-sized drivers and a DTEC sized driver is relatively easy to fit in that space. I've heard a lot of BA IEMs, and to me, the W60's tuning is crude compared to what can be done these days. Westone needs to stop living in 2006.

 


And you are going to do a review for Primo 8, if I remember correctly? Please compare it with SE846! Thanks!

 

[tomscy2000]

  It almost seems as if westone hit a home run as it were with the previous range and were unsure as to how to go about the next updates.

  I feel just aimed for people with w4r to upgrade to w60 so they kept the house sound, from the time i had with them, there are wow moments just like the w4r, but they are far and few between because of the warm and smooth signature. It's more suited to the classical crowd. Whereas Shure actually did something to kick their competition in the nuts.

 
Indeed. They're just way too concerned with keeping their customer base, when really the market has expanded, and in a big, big way since 2011 or so. Their strategy has been to keep the status quo because it has worked so successfully for them, but I feel that keeping their existing user base has actually shrunk their overall market share. Poor strategy. The only branching out of their product line was the ADV and that's a line geared toward an even more limited customer base than their W series. They're also working on silly stupid ribbon driver headphones. We'll see how the new CEO reacts. He seems to be a hard worker --- he flew to Japan (Guess what? Shure jumped on top of the Asian market explosion way before them) just to promote the new models, though he basically towed the same company drivel.
 

  And you are going to do a review for Primo 8, if I remember correctly? Please compare it with SE846! Thanks!

 
It's finished (returned the eval unit back to Nuforce early last week), but I haven't had time to edit. I don't have time to do much these days.

 

[WCDchee]

 

 
The UM3x is definitely NOT neutral, it is rather coloured with a potentially overpowering low end, and very dark sounding indeed. Personally though, I do prefer it to most others in the westone line. The W60 is pretty decent, but not something I would pay so much for. I wouldn't even pay half considering the options out there. The w40 &w50, well I honestly don't knw what westone was trying to accomplish with those two models, overbearing midrange, giving a honky plasticky sound, significant treble roll off, and a boomy muddy upper bass which overwhelms everything. 
 
IMO the best in the westone line, by a mile, is the W20, at the very least, its balanced, rather transparent, and somewhat more natural and neutral sounding.

 

[TeddyTang]

Got my W60 two days ago & owned 846 for nine months
W60 was very bassy for first 10hrs burnt in, but will be better after then. Not as deep as SE846 (Balanced Filter)
 
I am a new hand here and and my English is not good, please forgive

 

[WCDchee]

   
Indeed. They're just way too concerned with keeping their customer base, when really the market has expanded, and in a big, big way since 2011 or so. Their strategy has been to keep the status quo because it has worked so successfully for them, but I feel that keeping their existing user base has actually shrunk their overall market share. Poor strategy. The only branching out of their product line was the ADV and that's a line geared toward an even more limited customer base than their W series. They're also working on silly stupid ribbon driver headphones. We'll see how the new CEO reacts. He seems to be a hard worker --- he flew to Japan (Guess what? Shure jumped on top of the Asian market explosion way before them) just to promote the new models, though he basically towed the same company drivel.
 
 
It's finished (returned the eval unit back to Nuforce early last week), but I haven't had time to edit. I don't have time to do much these da

 Between you and davidcotton, I think you've described westone pretty well. They're pretty much riding on the fact that they, along with shure, have been around longer than most other companies, and thus become an easy recommendation because "it's been here so long it has to be good" However, in the last few years especially, they are far becoming outclassed by competitors at all price points, at the low end, companies like vsonic, dunu, philips, zero audio have performed outstandingly, sweeping off many of the westone models a few times their price. At the upper range, the competition is intense, there's fitear, AKG, JH, and currently the all new dita, which I feel makes just about one of the best earphones out there, period (well it is the best to me )
 
Just curious though, how do you find the primo 8? Personally, I was not so impressed with them.

 

[tomscy2000]

  Just curious though, how do you find the primo 8? Personally, I was not so impressed with them.

 
I actually feel it's a very good choice for anyone who's looking for a warm and relaxed sound. The imaging is rather precise and accurate for the kind of sound signature it brings, especially in center imaging. Absolute soundstage size is average because it does roll-off treble a bit, but overall, I really think it's a great IEM. It merely doesn't have a strong sense of "character" --- it's been a bit too calculated for moderation on all fronts. It's not going to wow anyone subjectively in any one way, but overall, its technical performance is very high, and that kind of solid performance coming from a brand that hasn't ever ventured out of the $100 envelope for its IEMs deserves recognition. To me, of these IEMs that use the over-ear wear style and classic concha bowl shape (that are not directly custom-derived e.g. FitEar), the Primo 8 is second only to the SE846.

 

[WCDchee]

I actually feel it's a very good choice for anyone who's looking for a warm and relaxed sound. The imaging is rather precise and accurate for the kind of sound signature it brings, especially in center imaging. Absolute soundstage size is average because it does roll-off treble a bit, but overall, I really think it's a great IEM. It merely doesn't have a strong sense of "character" --- it's been a bit too calculated for moderation on all fronts. It's not going to wow anyone subjectively in any one way, but overall, its technical performance is very high, and that kind of solid performance coming from a brand that hasn't ever ventured out of the $100 envelope for its IEMs deserves recognition. To me, of these IEMs that use the over-ear wear style and classic concha bowl shape (that are not directly custom-derived e.g. FitEar), the Primo 8 is second only to the SE846.

You have to try the ditas if you have the chance to that is