[Spyro]

   
The UM3x is definitely NOT neutral, it is rather coloured with a potentially overpowering low end, and very dark sounding indeed. Personally though, I do prefer it to most others in the westone line. The W60 is pretty decent, but not something I would pay so much for. I wouldn't even pay half considering the options out there. The w40 &w50, well I honestly don't knw what westone was trying to accomplish with those two models, overbearing midrange, giving a honky plasticky sound, significant treble roll off, and a boomy muddy upper bass which overwhelms everything. 
 
IMO the best in the westone line, by a mile, is the W20, at the very least, its balanced, rather transparent, and somewhat more natural and neutral sounding.

Flat out WRONG!
 
UM3X has a far more forward midrange than W4/W40.  W40/W40 also have a farther extended treble.
Enough said about which is the better IEM.

 

[M Coupe]

Tip regarding Tips- I plan to make this point in my review later but thougt it could help other new owners.

1. I used the smallest green star tip like my 846 and there was less bass than my 535. Yeah they were comfortable but I knew I was doing something wrong.
2. After trying an assortment of different tips, I landed on the green (not shure olive) westone memory foam type tip. Bass is now present.
3. As previously mentioned the sound tube is shorter than the 846 and I am not sure if this is the reason.

After getting the tips sorted out, which took about a week, I am now listening to the W60 in a more fair way. I was ready to ship mine back until I figure this out. If you own them and are not happy, I suggest you do some tip rolling and definitely try the memory foam versions (sorry I cannot recall the marketing term for them).

Cheers!

 

[Danz03]

I'm using Genelec in my studio right now. To me, the sub bass of the LCD-2/3/X is nowhere near what my speakers can produce, I guess no headphones or IEMs can ever produce the kind of sub bass like speakers. But then, I haven't heard any headphones that sounded as near to studio monitors as the LCD-X too, so I'd always use them as reference whenever I can't use speakers.
 
Going back to the W60, I did some comparisons with my SE846 and LCD-X after a couple of days of burning in. Since I couldn't use the balanced out of the AK240 to test the W60, I compared them just using SE out for all. The W60's sound signature is remarkably similar to the LCD-X's, very fine details in the high frequencies and actually slightly more bassy, but not as tight and punchy. The SE846 sounded so bass heavy in comparison I had to change the blue nozzle to the white one to get the supposed 2.5 dB treble boost. Out of the 3, SE846 is really the bass monster, with kick drum sounding so punchy and tight, they do give a nice subwoofer effect like how they advertised them as, timpani are deep and heart pounding, as if they are really right there in front of me. While being the winner in the bass department, the SE846 loses in almost everything else, acoustic instruments like piano and guitars sounded so much more refined with the W60, and even slightly more so with the LCD-X, one can feel the plucking of the guitar strings instead of just a recording of it like with the SE846. And with electronic music, they are also incapable of creating a very nice, wide and surreal soundscape like how the W60 can. With strings orchestra, it would depends on one's taste, W60's strings orchestra sounds soothing and calming, whereas SE846's more aggressive and moving, with a lot of bowing details and dynamics. Obviously, everyone has their own preference, W60 being soothing and calming can mean boring and uninspired to some, while the SE846 being more coarse sounding and bass heavy can mean fun and exciting to some; I know which I prefer. 

 
 
 
Quote:

   
Yes. NS10, Genelecs, Alesis. As well as high-end speakers (Tannoy, Focal, Burmester, etc.) in treated rooms.
 
Stage IEMs usually recede the upper midrange for two reasons: (1) lessens long-term fatigue, (2) psychoacoustically brings forward vocal fundamentals.
 
This is a common trend that occurs across many brands.

 

[Spyro]

 

Reminds me of the SE535 versus W4 comparison.
 
Where SE535 has a bit more wow factor and bass punch but W4 has better detail retrieval and transparency.
 
I know W4 owners do NOT want to hear it but W40 was a really nice upgrade to W4.  Take the best traits of TF10 and SE535 and you have W40.

 

[M Coupe]

Updated my review on first post. As I continue to listen o will update any other findings on that post

 

[javahut]

I think Westone did a fairly good job isolating the improved bass from the lower midrange but it is not as clean of a separation as the 846 but I am really nitpicking here.

Midrange(8.0/10)-
• I need to state my bias is towards Shure’s midrange tuning. I know it is more forward and lush but I do love it. Please take this bias into account when you read my take.
• I disagree with the descriptions I read about “smooth/honey-like” midrange tuning from Westone. Shure has the smoother mid-range in my opinion.
• I find the presentation of Westone’s midrange to be thinner and dryer. I am going to guess it is closer to reference than Shure but sometimes it works and sometimes it does not.

 
This is where we would have to agree to disagree. I would never describe the 846 mid-range as "lush". Smooth?... maybe.
 
I don't want the bass isolated from the lower midrange. I want to hear it all. With the W60, I can... with loads of detail. With the 846, it sounds like it's missing an entire range of frequencies between the sub and the mids. The upper low end and lower mid-range is what makes the "smooth/honey-like" midrange. Without it, as in the 846, all I hear is the presence of the mid-range. This removes almost all sense of warmth from the 846 sound for me. The 846 can't get close to this quality of tone in these frequencies. I noticed this right away even when coming from the W4 to the 846... but was willing to live with it because I liked almost everything else about the 846. The sub is impressive on the 846.
 
Also, if you've only used Westone star tips or memory foam... you're not getting the best out of the W60. There are many more tips out there that are superior. Especially... you need a wider bore tip than the standard Westone and Star tips. I guarantee you... this makes way more difference to the sound of the IEMs than your balanced silver cable.
 
And another point... the 846 seems to be made to sound best farther from your eardrums, as in using the Westone or standard Shure tips. The wider the bore, and the deeper the insertion, and the 846 starts to sound like "too much of a good thing", for lack of better words. Kind of like the 846 sound is at least slightly hyped to account for this. Whereas... the closer and more open you can get the W60's sound directly into your ear and onto your eardrum... the more the sound quality and detail improves. It improves to the point that the low end becomes very close to the 846 (although, it's never going to sound like the 846, because, as you stated, Shure has separated the low end from mid-range, which makes their sub that much more noticeable). And all other frequencies represented in the W60 are more detailed and "lush" than the 846 for me.
 
Just remember that for the W60 (as with most Westones)... it's ALL about getting the right ear tip to appreciate all it has to offer. If you stop at the standard Westone/Shure tips, you're not getting all it has to offer.

 

[M Coupe]

Have a drawer full of tips from most. Where I landed is best for my very ears. We both argue the importance of getting the right tips...we agree here

Also the innovation of the physical low pass filter from Shure does improve bass over the w60. I get more 80-120 boom sound from w60 with bass passages. Th the effect of the low pass filter is what I mean by isolation. Isolation may be poor word Choice.

 

[jlbrach]

I think the W60 is going to prove to be a major disappointment for Westone,yes I know there are going to be fans but I think the 846 is a much more dramatic upgrade the the W60 is and as a result I think it is going to crowd out the W60.I bought both of them and loved the 846 and quickly returned the W60.I had some cosmetic issues with the W60 but sound wise it wasnt enough of an upgrade over the 40's while the 846 is IMHO head and shoulders better than the 535 which I liked very much!Just one mans opinion!

 

[Bina]

From this discussion, it seems main problem of Westone W60 is that W4 is much better than Shure 535?
 
W60 will be in month in Czech Republic and I should be able to get to one pair. I got really dissapointed after reading about "quality" of W50 and UM50, so my approach to W60 is reserved.

 

[spook76]

From this discussion, it seems main problem of Westone W60 is that W4 is much better than Shure 535?

W60 will be in month in Czech Republic and I should be able to get to one pair. I got really dissapointed after reading about "quality" of W50 and UM50, so my approach to W60 is reserved.

Not to ignite an bitter argument on Head-Fi, as a owner of both the 535-J and 4r, l liked the W4r but loved the 535 with its smooth mids and polite treble. I feel the 535 is more musical than the 4r.

 

[M Coupe]

Let's keep discussion civil everyone.

 

[Danz03]

I don't know, my W4 definitely have more bass than the W4r, but the W4r have more clarity and the details. I've never demoed the W40, so maybe Westone took the best of W4 and W4r and created the W40?
 
Quote:

  Reminds me of the SE535 versus W4 comparison.
 
Where SE535 has a bit more wow factor and bass punch but W4 has better detail retrieval and transparency.
 
I know W4 owners do NOT want to hear it but W40 was a really nice upgrade to W4.  Take the best traits of TF10 and SE535 and you have W40.

 

[Danz03]

I love the tight punchy bass of the SE846 very much, but to me, the W60 are better in general. Never heard the W40, maybe I should have a listen and compare them to the W60. As for the W50, the staff at the shop where I demoed them thought W60 weren't worth the $250 difference, but I thought otherwise. In fact, one shop I went to bad mouthed the W60/50 a lot, so I guess it could be a question of taste, but then they don't stock them either.
 
I never liked the Shure 535, the standard nor the red editions, there's something strange in the high frequency range of the red edition, maybe the pair I demoed was faulty. But SE846 are so different to the 535, I wouldn't call that an upgrade. As I mentioned in an earlier post, W4 and W4r have different sound signatures, but I prefer them both to 535.
 
 

  From this discussion, it seems main problem of Westone W60 is that W4 is much better than Shure 535?
 
W60 will be in month in Czech Republic and I should be able to get to one pair. I got really dissapointed after reading about "quality" of W50 and UM50, so my approach to W60 is reserved.

Quote:

  I think the W60 is going to prove to be a major disappointment for Westone,yes I know there are going to be fans but I think the 846 is a much more dramatic upgrade the the W60 is and as a result I think it is going to crowd out the W60.I bought both of them and loved the 846 and quickly returned the W60.I had some cosmetic issues with the W60 but sound wise it wasnt enough of an upgrade over the 40's while the 846 is IMHO head and shoulders better than the 535 which I liked very much!Just one mans opinion!
 

 

[xaddictionx]

Probably the SE535Ltd that you demoed may be faulty. Though the treble of SE535Ltd may not be as smooth or well extended compared to W4R, it's not strange, weird or bad. Coupled with Westone star tips, the bass is actually more empowering than W4R, particularly in ~35Hz region. Vocals are more forward on SE535Ltd than W4R.

I demoed the W60 too. It seems like a slight upgrade to the W4R. With better and lower bass punch. No more focusing on mid bass like W4R. The W60 retains the Westone house sound with smooth, lush and intimate vocals which is well positioned and not "in your face". Treble, again, is extremely smooth and well extended as the W4R. One thing to note is that the "veil" which I find clouding the lower mids on W4R is now gone on the W60 which gives it better clarity. Separation and soundstage wise probably around on par or slightly edging out W4R.

Though not a complete upgrade over W4R, it actually covers and improves over the flaws and complaints of W4R.

However, when factoring in the price of W60, priced at SGD$1399 in my country, I would happily go for W4R at street price of around ~SGD$350 and an aftermarket cable which makes more sense economically wise..

 

[Danz03]

Maybe they are, I demoed The SE535Ltd in a shop in Tokyo nearly 2 years ago and I thought the treble sounded a bit strange, kind of like a bit of harshness in the 10kHz + area which I really don't like. I then heard that same kind of harshness with the top of the line Audio-Technica headphones in another shop, couldn't remember if it was the ATH-W5000 or the W1000X. Or maybe they were just not burnt-in enough.
 
For me, the W60 are totally worth it no matter how much they cost because as I mentioned before, they sound very similar to my LCD-X, and I use them as an alternative to my monitor speakers when I'm doing mixing or music editing, and the LCD-X can get a bit heavy after a few hours of use. As for aftermarket cables, I'm not really a big fan, just got the ALO SXC 24 for my AK240, they are so stiff and very microphonic, and they don't even fit any of the Westone new line of IEMs. There may be some difference in sound, but I find the difference too little to justify for the high price. So now, I need to wait for my AKR03 to come back so I can do a comparison with the W60.
 
 
Quote:

Probably the SE535Ltd that you demoed may be faulty. Though the treble of SE535Ltd may not be as smooth or well extended compared to W4R, it's not strange, weird or bad. Coupled with Westone star tips, the bass is actually more empowering than W4R, particularly in ~35Hz region. Vocals are more forward on SE535Ltd than W4R.

I demoed the W60 too. It seems like a slight upgrade to the W4R. With better and lower bass punch. No more focusing on mid bass like W4R. The W60 retains the Westone house sound with smooth, lush and intimate vocals which is well positioned and not "in your face". Treble, again, is extremely smooth and well extended as the W4R. One thing to note is that the "veil" which I find clouding the lower mids on W4R is now gone on the W60 which gives it better clarity. Separation and soundstage wise probably around on par or slightly edging out W4R.

Though not a complete upgrade over W4R, it actually covers and improves over the flaws and complaints of W4R.

However, when factoring in the price of W60, priced at SGD$1399 in my country, I would happily go for W4R at street price of around ~SGD$350 and an aftermarket cable which makes more sense economically wise..