[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnstyle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps you guys should go start a UM3x unappreciation thread.

I respectfully disagree. This thread ought to serve as an informative thread, not just an "appreciation" thread as its title dictates. Thus, I welcome all critical comments, just as long as they are backed up with some substantial descriptions, rather than just "dead" or "dull" - likewise, when people praise these phones; although, I don't really mind these vague descriptions at all. I just don't give them much, if any, consideration.

 

[jc9394]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnstyle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks, but I'm still not quite sure I understand the advantage of an ER4P-to-ER4S resistor cable/adapter over a passive attenuator like Shure - Attachable Volume Control -- as the Shure attenuator also seems to give variable level control. Am I missing something? Thanks!

The Shure one does not eliminate hiss, it only a volume attenuator while the P-S adapter have a resistor inside to increase the resistance which make it hard to drive and not as sensitive.

 

[mark2410]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iponderous /img/forum/go_quote.gif I knew this would happen. No I don't want to do that at all. Best I leave. Come on Mark we're going!

LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigon_ridge /img/forum/go_quote.gif I respectfully disagree. This thread ought to serve as an informative thread, not just an "appreciation" thread as its title dictates. Thus, I welcome all critical comments, just as long as they are backed up with some substantial descriptions, rather than just "dead" or "dull" - likewise, when people praise these phones; although, I don't really mind these vague descriptions at all. I just don't give them much, if any, consideration.

and i have done. just not in each and every post but if you have a look i have discussed them in greater detail.

this the prob when threads get 400 million pages long things get impossible to find

 

[turnstyle]

I agree -- both positive and negative criticism can be very useful -- but a long back-and-forth about how dull you conisder the UM3x -- after a while it gets, well, dull, lifeless, no high-end sparkle, and seemingly, no bottom end.

 

[turnstyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc9394 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Shure one does not eliminate hiss, it only a volume attenuator while the P-S adapter have a resistor inside to increase the resistance which make it hard to drive and not as sensitive.

But isn't a volume attenuator basically a variable resistor? Meaning, when you turn the volume attenuator low, doesn't that raise resistance, and result in the same need to drive the phones harder as you would get from using the P-S adapter? (sorry if I don't properly understand the electronics here...)

 

[jc9394]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnstyle /img/forum/go_quote.gif But isn't a volume attenuator basically a variable resistor? Meaning, when you turn the volume attenuator low, doesn't that raise resistance, and result in the same need to drive the phones harder as you would get from using the P-S adapter? (sorry if I don't properly understand the electronics here...)

All I can tell you is, I have the shure one, that don't do crap. I ordered on P-S few days ago and few head-fier confirmed that the P-S does eliminate most of the hiss from laptop but it may affect SQ, especially in the treble so a lower resistance will be better.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc9394 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Shure one does not eliminate hiss, it only a volume attenuator while the P-S adapter have a resistor inside to increase the resistance which make it hard to drive and not as sensitive.

That is not true - it does reduce hiss - all you have to do is roll the volume control 3-4 mm from wide open volume and control the volume with the laptop (or hissy source), and the hiss will be reduced noticeably - yet the IEM will still be able to achieve loud volumes when needed. I have used this to reduce the hiss with Macbook, Apogee Duet, ALO Amphora and many others like some cmoy amps and it works every time.

 

[jc9394]

Let me give it another spin, I have it in my office.

Update - it does work, it reduced the hiss by 75%, not totally eliminate it. I must have the volume control mixed up before, crank up the source and use the Shure adapter to control the volume. Thanks HPA, learn something new today.

 

[turnstyle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc9394 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let me give it another spin, I have it in my office. Update - it does work, it reduced the hiss by 75%, not totally eliminate it. I must have the volume control mixed up before, crank up the source and use the Shure adapter to control the volume. Thanks HPA, learn something new today.

Right -- so lowering the volume on the attenuator, and raising on the laptop -- that gets rid of the hiss, right? (presumably, you also lose some 'finesse' -- but if you're hearing a lot of hiss, you can just pick the right balance between maintaining finesse, and eliminating hiss)

Is there an real difference between using an attenuator like this (ie, dialed into the same resistance) compared to using the Ety cable? (I would have thought them to be electronically the same behavior)

 

[jc9394]

Well, i just ABing it between adapter and no adapter. I do not recommend it at all, using the adapter sounds like adding a veil to it. (to my ear)

The setup I just tried with...

Source: MacPro
DAC: iQube
IEM: UM3x

I tried using the headphone out from MacPro too (very very faint hiss) and HP desktop headphone out (hissy). I do not notice the SQ change that much on headphone.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jc9394 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let me give it another spin, I have it in my office. Update - it does work, it reduced the hiss by 75%, not totally eliminate it. I must have the volume control mixed up before, crank up the source and use the Shure adapter to control the volume. Thanks HPA, learn something new today.

No problem, glad to help. I did a review of using volume attenuators a while back, and it's definitely better to set the attenuator as above, and control the volume with the laptop or from the device that hisses. The combination keeps the hiss from the laptop as low as possible before it gets to the attenuator, which then can cut it even more.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnstyle /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree -- both positive and negative criticism can be very useful -- but a long back-and-forth about how dull you conisder the UM3x -- after a while it gets, well, dull, lifeless, no high-end sparkle, and seemingly, no bottom end.

i empathize with your frustration.

there are obviously valid criticisms which can be made of the UM3X (and just about any other can out there). specifically, i can understand why someone would think:

1. the treble is slightly recessed (it is, but it's only apparent on warmer recordings and sources)
2. the soundstage is too narrow (it is narrow, but it's there... this is a matter of taste)
3. the bass isn't powerful enough (this is a function of lots of people wanting artificially boosted bass)

i think, and this is just educated speculation on my part, the last point is where the "dull" and "lifeless" comments from. there are a lot of people who like big bass, whether it's really there or not. most consumer audio products these days is tweaked to make the bass bigger: from recording and mastering to speakers. there's nothing wrong with this, but it's not an accurate presentation of music.

i personally find the UM3X really fun, engaging and groovy, especially when amped. i think the bass is really tight with good slam for an IEM, and there's no way i'd want it any louder or more emphasized. but that's just my taste; overdone bass is just not my thing.

i can totally understand why the UM3X isn't everyone's cup of tea, and this is my translation of what some of the general criticisms are supposed to mean.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turnstyle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right -- so lowering the volume on the attenuator, and raising on the laptop -- that gets rid of the hiss, right? (presumably, you also lose some 'finesse' -- but if you're hearing a lot of hiss, you can just pick the right balance between maintaining finesse, and eliminating hiss) Is there an real difference between using an attenuator like this (ie, dialed into the same resistance) compared to using the Ety cable? (I would have thought them to be electronically the same behavior)

See my posts above. You lower the attenuator volume to just slightly below max volume on the attenuator, while starting with the laptop at zero. You should hear the low volume/background hiss decrease when you slightly turn down the volume on the attenuator.

Once the attenuator is set, which usually will have it's volume knob rotated about 3-4 mm lower than max volume on the attenuator, then work your way up on the laptop volume until the music level is just right. You should hear little or no hiss between songs or during quiet passages in the music.

The attenuators can slightly veil the music with IEM, taking away a little micro-detail. The impedance adapters can kill the liveliness of the sound (make it flat and dull) or roll off the bass, or it can make it sound better - depending on how well the IEM interacts with the headphone out. My Freq Show customs sound much better with 75 ohm, but my other IEM all sound worse. Someone once reported the Livewires do okay with 50 ohm but not 75 ohm.

 

[jc9394]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The attenuators can slightly veil the music with IEM, taking away a little micro-detail. The impedance adapters can kill the liveliness of the sound (make it flat and dull) or roll off the bass, or it can make it sound better - depending on how well the IEM interacts with the headphone out. My Freq Show customs sound much better with 75 ohm, but my other IEM all sound worse. Someone once reported the Livewires do okay with 50 ohm but not 75 ohm.

Hi HPA, wonder did you tried the 75ohm adapter with JH13? I ordered a 36ohm adapter try to reduce the hiss with my iQube/JH13 and it did not arrive yet.

 

[iponderous]

Originally Posted by tigon_ridge
"I respectfully disagree. This thread ought to serve as an informative thread, not just an "appreciation" thread as its title dictates. Thus, I welcome all critical comments, just as long as they are backed up with some substantial descriptions, rather than just "dead" or "dull" - likewise, when people praise these phones; although, I don't really mind these vague descriptions at all. I just don't give them much, if any, consideration."

Although I do wonder how specific one's descriptions must be to satisfy tygon_ridge's requirements. This is a public forum, not a rarified academic discussion. We are attempting to convey our experiences of a shared interest with others. Sometimes we might endeavour to provide very specific descriptions and at other times not. These discussions can range from uninformed to knowledgeable, general to technical, moderate to extreme, clumsy to eloquent and naff to almost profound.

I find tygon_ridge's expectations a little unrealistic and a tad condescending. Frankly, I think he should keep his critiques about how people choose to express themselves in their posts to himself. I certainly don't post here in the hope of meeting the minimum standard that warrants his consideration.

There is also a common language and glossary of terms that are in regular use throughout the forum threads. Many of these terms are analogous and imprecise in nature. These are open to varying interpretation but by and large, most people seem to get the gist.

Are the examples of vague descriptions that tygon_ridge cites indicative of the stringent standards that he applies to the use of descriptive language or does it suggest a level of obtuseness on his part?