[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Would you have written the same response if I'd been very, or somewhat, disappointed with the W4s? I doubt it.

I honestly -- and I mean it, though it's obvious you don't believe it -- didn't mean to offend you. I pointed out a few things that 'seemed out of the ordinary' and explained why this was so. If I was reviewing a Rolls Royce, a Jaguar, or a Mercedes Benz -- all fine products -- is it not possible that I might still be biased, too, when reviewing their products if I had a 'special' relationship with these manufacturers?

Yes, you have written quite a few things about the W4s and it so happens that I agreed with a few of them after I received my W4s today. So what? Does that invalidate the issues I was writing about, which had NOTHING to do with the W4 being a good product or not? That is NOT the point I made in my posts or the point another poster, Asr, made, much earlier in this thread (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/527694/westone-4-appreciation-thread-and-reviews-a-k-a-westone-4/435#post_7209245).

Just for the record, on your very last response to me on this thread 6 days ago you DID NOT "tell me so":

You wrote: "To finish up - if you are already extremely happy with the UM3X, then I would not worry about a getting a new W4, as you already have an excellent IEM..." I do still have that excellent IEM, the UM3X, but within 8 hours I decided to put it up for sale, that's how much better I found the W4, so I'm glad I didn't follow your advice. With both the CK100 & TF10 I waited quite a few days before I decided to sell them and keep the UM3X.

You wrote: "As a matter of fact, I don't want to argue with you about anything anymore and just want to enjoy the music." I think we can both fully agree on this one and, therefore, I suggest that if you have anything else to say to me, and NOT argue, you can PM me.
 

I really DON'T WANT to keep arguing, but surely there must have been a better way to end this on a good note than the way in which you snuck your last jab in there.
 
You say you don't want to offend, as you then go on to do exactly that.  You can't be that oblivious - nobody likes to have their integrity called into question, especially after evidence is given to the contrary (corroborating reports of the W4 sound).  And you end your post in such a way that if I don't respond then I am agreeing that you are right, so therefore I must respond and look like I'm the one who can't let go.  You don't even know me, but you somehow found the right buttons to push.  Bravo.  
 
You've criticized me publicly for posting glowing things about the W4 and accused me of being biased or showing favoritism.  Then you got the W4 for yourself and you love them, but you can't even gracefully say that you found that you agreed for the most part with my impressions, and that you were sorry for accusing me of not being fair and balanced towards them.  Instead you throw out more accusations of bias and of giving you poor advice to re-direct the focus.  
 
Most people would agree that the fact that you and several others seem to agree with most of my impressions would lend some credibility that my impressions were made in earnest, and not driven by favoritism.  I wont deny that one can be biased by relationships, but one can still be honest at the same time and not favor one over the other unfairly - but you seem to imply that any bias usually leads to dishonesty and favoritism.  That last part I believe has been disproven in this case.  
 
And if you hadn't liked the W4 as much as your UM3X there is nothing wrong with that, because I've said all along what sounds better is ultimately driven by personal preferences among other things.  In fact, in my 1st response to you I said: 
 
Quote:

"But because we all hear differently with different tastes and preferences, and the sound changes depending on the fit, tips, ear canal shape, middle and inner ear condition and age, or brain function, what I hear may not be what you hear.  I try to describe what I hear in relation to other things, to set a frame of reference for other people.  Never will I post something that I can't back up or defend just because I want to make them sound better than they really are, or because I like one company more than another.  If I did that all the time I'd never be able to keep up with the snowball of lies over time."

 
As for telling me that I did not "tell you so" -  I never told you not to get the W4.  You took one line from part of my responses out of context, and used it to argue that I was in fact wrong about at least one thing or another.  I was initially responding to the line in bold:
 
Quote music_4321:

"...the sceptic in me finds that Larry (aka HeadphoneAddict) favours Westone products a bit too much for my liking... So, these days I trust and feel more comfortable with impressions/ reviews from 'ordinary' head-fiers, just like me... Yes, I may end up getting the W4s but I still have my reservations, and the lack of a detachable cable does not help. Also, as you well know, the FOTM phase is already in progress, and just like the exaggerated praise on the merits of customs over universal IEMs - in my very personal view, of course -, causing more and more people to reach for them, I wonder if the W4 is really worth it for someone who has the excellent sounding UM3X."

 
So I wrote the following (my main points are now in bold):
 
Quote - my complete response:

...if you are already extremely happy with the UM3X, then I would not worry about a getting a new W4, as you already have an excellent IEM.  I think the UM3X and W4 would appeal to a larger crowd than the W3, because they take less time and effort to get the right fit than the W3, and because in the end they have a little more neutrality/balance and transparency.  If you like the intimacy and involvement of the slightly forward highs and mids of the UM3X, then you might not like the less forward W4 mids and highs.  Although the W4 bass is more similar to the UM3X than the W3, I think the W4 bass is more than adequate and it's mids are better than both.  Like Goldilocks might have thought, the W4 mids are not too recessed and not too forward; but she might still like the highs on the UM3X more, as I feel they fall between the W3 and W4. 
 

I suspect that a UM3X lover like you will like the W4 more than a W3 lover, because I think most W3 lovers are in it for the incredible bass impact - the W3 seem closer to being a UE11Pro in a universal IEM, and the UM3X are closer to the ES3X in a universal (Duh).  The biggest differences in W4 over the UM3X to me is that they've tamed the W4 mids and highs a little over the UM3X, warmed up the mids a little, and sped up the bass a bit.  This seems to improve the presence and weight of the instruments and singers to me.  The W4 seems a little smoother and more refined, and the soundstage is much bigger and enveloping for me.  A UM3X puts me center stage and the W4 puts me nearer to the front of the audience, while the W3 has always put me closer to 10th row or mid-hall.

 
You seemingly latch onto the first line and ignore the rest.  My point was that if you really wanted to enjoy the differences that I described in the W4 then you'd go for it, and if you didn't then you'd stick with the UM3X and not worry about it because they sound great.  The fact is that I made it very clear that I still preferred the W4, although I wasn't sure you would agree.  My explanation gave you the information to help you decide whether to do the upgrade or not, but it didn't tell you to NOT do it at all.  But you turn it around 180 degrees on me, and tell me that I gave you bad advice to NOT get the W4.  Seriously?
 
Lastly, you once asked why i didn't go out and buy the other competitor's products to compare and be more fair.  On permanent disability income, and a daughter starting college in 2012 and another in 2013, I can no longer afford to buy all the headphones or other gear that I want unless I sell something else first.  I've sold a lot of gear that I wish I still owned, and there is little that I am willing to sell right now in order to buy new gear.  I might feel differently soon, but not right now.  When the time comes, it will be to buy something that I choose and that's not up to you.  I don't want to waste my money on something that I'm not sure is worth it, and I'm certainly not going to go back into debt just to test more gear that I don't need.  You had the same concern about buying the W4 when you were happy with the UM3X - you wanted to be sure before you leaped that it was worth it, and I'm not immune to that fear.  
 
To be honest, although the credit cards will be paid off with the tax refund next week, if I hadn't bought all the headphone gear that I already have, we'd have all my wife's student loans and one of the cars paid off, and an extra $550/mo in our pockets for college or our 401K.  Often I'm thinking about those kinds of things when I'm telling someone to just be happy with the gear they already have and stop upgrading.
 
 
(Note - I feel like I've had my say here, so if I don't respond it is in no way admitting I'm wrong.  We may have to agree to disagree.)

 

[music_4321]

.
 

 

[Fevsi]

I have owned Westone 3 for about 2 years now, and I am generally very happy with them. The only thing is, I am missing mids a lot, so I was about to take a plunge and get the Shure 535, and now Westone 4 come out. Can anyone compare the two? Seems like Westone has improved the midrange on Westone 4 over 3, and they are now closer to 535, but shure is still ahead in the midrange department, while westone might be the overall winner, if bass, treble and soundstage is considered. Am I correct? Any comments would be much appreciated!

 

[music_4321]

.

 

[daveDerek]

where are you guys getting the olive and sensorcom tips from?
 
 
Quote:

If your olives are new I would suggest opening up the diameter of the hole slightly before putting them on your 4’s otherwise twist off very carefully when removing. They are so tight without adjustment that it seems like they fuse to the nozzle.

how do you open up the olives bore?
 


Quote:

I've listened to the Westone 4s for about 3 days now, and overall I think they have a balanced, neutral sound. Like many others have said, they do almost nothing wrong and are crisp and detailed. I use them with modded sony hybrids, as they provide the best isolation and sound for me. I de-cored the short comply tips and used the core and superglued a medium-large sony hybrid tip to the de-cored comply sound tube. The reason the sony hybrids sound better than the grey silicone tips is because the sound tube is larger, allowing the treble to come out fully. The grey silicone tips have a narrow sound tube, causing a reduced treble. I also tried shure olives and found that it made them sound too dark, but had great isolation and still a nice overall sound, but it was just too dark for me. Overall, I am very impressed with the Westone 4s and I seem to have found the perfect tips that work for me. Kudos to Westone!

it's not clear to me how you mod the sony hybrid tips (where do you get those from?). i'm sure a picture tutorial would help (perhaps better done in a separate thread) if you'd be willing to make one.
 


Quote:

OK, let the FOTM officially begin --- the Westone 4 is the best universal IEM I've ever heard.
The W4s have practically nothing to envy my $850 Westone ES3X customs. [snip] I've been saying this for over a year and a half, namely that customs are overrated, but this being Head-Fi, where one must eventually get high-end customs, expensive aftermarket cables, portable amps and LODs...well, no wonder only a few were interested in the thread I started 20 months ago (http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/429275/are-custom-iem-s-overrated) because...well,  "it's oh, so cool to have (high-end) customs & all the extra gear that goes with it."

glad to hear that you finally made the decision to try them and that you're so pleased with your purchase.  i don't think that you're prepared to do the following, though i'd bet that if you sold your es3xs and got es5s you'd be really really pleased!  

 

[Marcus_C]

 
Quote:

where are you guys getting the olive and sensorcom tips from?

 
Olives from all sorts of places, amazon etc. If not there are always some on ebay. Sensorcom tips from the sensorcom website.
 

Quote:

how do you open up the olives bore?

 
With difficulty, not a little patience, several choice expletives and small, sharp scissors. Have a look at this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/391859/shure-olive-mod-for-tf10
 
Edit: actually completely misread that: Give them the heat treatment.

 

[music_4321]

.

 

[markh78]

Just a quick how-to to using Sony hybrids on W4 for those interested.
 
I've used the core of the foam tips that came with SE535, just rip the foams away using sharp knife.
(Incidentally, this was the default tip that SE535 was equipped with in the package, and I had to more or less destroy the thing to take it off, so no big loss)

 
Conveniently, this core have a bulge at its base, meaning it'll be a nice fit with the groove on hybrids' stem without the need for any glueing.
(don't know if it's the same with Comply's cores, but you can just superglue)
Just place the core upside down on the W4's stem, and then put the hybrids on. 

 
End result:

 
As you can see, it makes the stem a little longer meaning the tips are placed farther away from the housing than just using stock tips.
This helps me a lot in terms of comfort, since I no longer need to push the housing against my ear in order to achieve good isolation.

 

[imackler]

Quote:

I have owned Westone 3 for about 2 years now, and I am generally very happy with them. The only thing is, I am missing mids a lot, so I was about to take a plunge and get the Shure 535, and now Westone 4 come out. Can anyone compare the two? Seems like Westone has improved the midrange on Westone 4 over 3, and they are now closer to 535, but shure is still ahead in the midrange department, while westone might be the overall winner, if bass, treble and soundstage is considered. Am I correct? Any comments would be much appreciated!

I think that this is a very solid summary of the differences between the two. The SE535 mids are really lush. They just make you want to hear vocals! But I would say that the W4 is definitely more balanced. For me personally, the SE535 would be an awesome back up to the W4, for the songs where you want those lush, forward mids. I had them for a short time and since selling them, there are songs I miss them with. So if someone listens to a ton of acoustic/folk stuff (and maybe pop) and wants "rich" vocals, the SE535 is a really nice earphone. The W4 is much better suited to all genres though and is superior in almost every way (imo).
 
For me, the W4 is vastly more comfortable and has much much less microphonics. I really would consider the SE535 an almost lateral move to the W4, despite its weaker bass and treble, if it weren't for the uncomfortable memory wire.
 
The SE535 is more of a dessert earphone while W4 is your bread and butter/meat and potatoes earphone. I wouldn't recommend the SE535 as someone's primary earphone unless they really, really like dessert. I wish I could own both for the occasional dessert.

 

[W1CKED]

demo-ed the W4s today,
(the demo unit that I've listened to just got only about 20hrs of burn-in)
 
when i inserted them in and press play on my ipod with no amps whatsoever 
i got a "WOW-IS-THIS-WESTONE?" kind of face lol
 
imo, they are just amazing, fun yet balanced and detailed, great soundstage and they just do nothing wrong
 
but i heard some sibilance from them with sibilance-prone tracks (compared to JH5's, W4's sibilance just harsher)
maybe they are not complete the burn-in period yet? or they just reveal the sibilant the way it should be revealed?
or just my fit? (W4's fits my ears with no problems, btw, I use grey soft flex)

 

[FlexPen76]

I've been advised to use a 3.5 jack from a set of old headphones. Slide the olive onto it about 3/4 way and hopefully that will do the trick (thanks to  @LostAngeles). Haven't tried it yet though I must confess!
 
Quote:

.... 

how do you open up the olives bore?
 
....

 

 

[FlexPen76]

Just got home from work to find the FedEx invoice - £63.00!

So that's a pointer if anyone is thinking of importing from US to UK. Looks like the Coppers are going then!

 

[Musicdiddy]

Quote:

Just got home from work to find the FedEx invoice - £63.00!

So that's a pointer if anyone is thinking of importing from US to UK. Looks like the Coppers are going then!

 
I am thinking about getting these, out of interest could I ask where you bought yours from?

 

 

[rudi0504]

The last IEM that i bought last month was Sony MDR EX 1000, before i wish to buy SHURE SE 535, as i compare with Sony MDR EX 1000, i decided to buy Sony MDR EX 1000.
 
The reason i bought Sony MDR EX 1000, because in my ear the sound from Shure SE 535 is not so much different compare to my SE 530.
 
Now came out Westone 4
 
From all the IEM that i have , I like the sound from Sony MDR EX 1000. Westone UM 3 X
 
had head fier compare the sound from Sony  EX 1000 vs Westone 4 ?
 
Shall i buy Westone 4 or Westone  5 ES ?
 
Please advise me to make my decision, because i have not hear the sound from Westone 4 and Westone 5 ES 
 
I like to collect new IEM and i wish to have the best IEM like Westone 5 ES or Westone 4
 
Thank you for your help

 

[FlexPen76]

I got mine from earphone solutions on the preorder. I see that headphone company in the UK now show as in stock for £319.99 delivered, but I don't know if they are official stockists and or how the warranty will work from there.
There is a link for the UK site earlier in the thread.