[Triode User]

Some excellent marketing.

For the record, if you are referring to the comments posted about my cables by Babysnake they were totally unsolicited (but still nice to see).

 

[Rob Watts]

I'd like to ask Rob a tech question if I may?

I have a Blu2/DAVE combo joined by dual Wave Storm Reference cables and the sound is just sublime

I remember Rob explaining somewhere that there is a small difference between ground plane potential in the Blu2 and DAVE (subsequently eliminated in the design of the Hugo M-Scaler) and the incurable tweaker in me came across this: http://www.computeraudiodesign.com/gc1-ground-control/

If (big if I accept, although I have no personal reason to doubt it) one buys into the physics espoused by Scott at CAD, might connecting one of these devices to the Blu2/DAVE ameliorate this signal ground differential and improve SQ?

Certainly adding the Storm References, which I understand also works on the same issue, made a big difference over 'standard' S/PDIF cables

Cheers for any thoughts

Hmm.

Firstly, adding ferrites to connecting BNC cables is categorically not the same as this solution; a ferrite core over a coaxial cable increases the common mode (that is ground) impedance without affecting the signal or differential impedance; this is hard science, and well understood. And it's the elimination of RF ground currents that we are trying to eliminate, and the ferrites are a very good way of isolating from RF ground currents.

This claims to convert RF noise into heat; and I have seen similar ideas for screens of cables, and this works through a lossy magnetic material. But this directly affects the external magnetic field (like ferrite cores distributed on the outside of a BNC cable). In the case of a module attached via a single wire, then this can't affect the magnetic component of an electromagnetic wave. So it can only affect the electric field; and I can't see how that can work, as it's currents that we are trying to eliminate.

Note that no measurements are actually given for this device, and if this worked as intended, then I guess ham radios would be buying them in droves, as antenna ground noise is a serious problem.

If someone wants to send me one, I would be happy to do a rigorous and controlled AB listening test, and some ground noise measurements... But I am not running out to try one myself.

 

[Babysnake]

Hmm.

Firstly, adding ferrites to connecting BNC cables is categorically not the same as this solution; a ferrite core over a coaxial cable increases the common mode (that is ground) impedance without affecting the signal or differential impedance; this is hard science, and well understood. And it's the elimination of RF ground currents that we are trying to eliminate, and the ferrites are a very good way of isolating from RF ground currents.

This claims to convert RF noise into heat; and I have seen similar ideas for screens of cables, and this works through a lossy magnetic material. But this directly affects the external magnetic field (like ferrite cores distributed on the outside of a BNC cable). In the case of a module attached via a single wire, then this can't affect the magnetic component of an electromagnetic wave. So it can only affect the electric field; and I can't see how that can work, as it's currents that we are trying to eliminate.

Note that no measurements are actually given for this device, and if this worked as intended, then I guess ham radios would be buying them in droves, as antenna ground noise is a serious problem.

If someone wants to send me one, I would be happy to do a rigorous and controlled AB listening test, and some ground noise measurements... But I am not running out to try one myself.

Thank you as always for your input Rob, very much appreciated

One more thing crossed off the tweak list

Back to mains cables ...........

 

[Ragnar-BY]

ferrites are a very good way of isolating from RF ground currents

Rob, I`ve seen that ferrites are rated for different frequencies (10, 100, 300, 700 MHz etc.). In case of M Scaler and/or DAC inputs, what ferrites should be better to experiment with DIY BNC-cables?

 

[Rob Watts]

For M scaler they need to be HF ferrites - 2GHz types. For the Hugo M scaler, clip on ferrites don't work, due to the 2GHz ferrites that are built into the drive circuitry.

 

[Triode User]

For M scaler they need to be HF ferrites - 2GHz types. For the Hugo M scaler, clip on ferrites don't work, due to the 2GHz ferrites that are built into the drive circuitry.

Just to add to Rob's comments, whilst clip on ferrites don't work with the Hugo MScaler (and indeed seem to make it worse), the solid core ferrites do work as long as they are the correct spec. Make sure they are as tight fitting as possible on the cable for maximum effect. The ones I use are a friction fit on the cables and the cables only just goes through the ferrites. There is also a relationship between the spacing of the ferrites and the width of the frequency band over which they operate.

Obviously I would love to say which ferrites I use but it took me 6 months of evaluation to find the best ones.

 

[Jawed]

It is a LIE that clip-on ferrites make the Hugo M-Scaler connection over dual BNC to DAVE worse. If you hear a problem it's because you're using an intermediate number of ferrites.

Of course if you sell cables that costs thousands of pounds based on the lie that clip-on ferrites make the sound worse, then you will continue to propagate this lie.

 

[Triode User]

Well Ok, I am happy to add a YMMV but are you also calling RW a liar when he says clip on ferrites do not work? (By the way, I am not quite sure why you leapt straight into vitriol when we were trying to be helpful for those who want to experiment based on our own experiences).

 

[organicmac]

Well Ok, I am happy to add a YMMV but are you also calling RW a liar when he says clip on ferrites do not work? (By the way, I am not quite sure why you leapt straight into vitriol when we were trying to be helpful for those who want to experiment based on our own experiences).

I, too, deprecate vitriol but was impressed by the improvement in sound from the ferrited cables as suggested by Jawed. In my case I used 1m rather than 2m but was quite surprised by the improvement I heard.

 

[Triode User]

I, too, deprecate vitriol but was impressed by the improvement in sound from the ferrited cables as suggested by Jawed. In my case I used 1m rather than 2m but was quite surprised by the improvement I heard.

Excellent, that is good feedback.

 

[Ragnar-BY]

For M scaler they need to be HF ferrites - 2GHz types. For the Hugo M scaler, clip on ferrites don't work, due to the 2GHz ferrites that are built into the drive circuitry.

Thank you. What do you think about BNC cable, going from streamer to M Scaler or DAC input? Are ferrites useful in this case? If so, should I try 2GHz also, or lesser frequency?

 

[Rob Watts]

Thank you. What do you think about BNC cable, going from streamer to M Scaler or DAC input? Are ferrites useful in this case? If so, should I try 2GHz also, or lesser frequency?

I hadn't been able to hear a difference at all with USB; and I don't have a coax output to try it on. I suspect 300 MHz may be better to try - the 2 GHz is for the particular issues that the galvanically isolated BNC outputs from an M scaler has; it won't apply to a general case. The clip on ferrites are inexpensive, so try some different ones, with 4 or so at the receive side; but with USB I couldn't hear a change at all.

It is a LIE that clip-on ferrites make the Hugo M-Scaler connection over dual BNC to DAVE worse. If you hear a problem it's because you're using an intermediate number of ferrites.

Of course if you sell cables that costs thousands of pounds based on the lie that clip-on ferrites make the sound worse, then you will continue to propagate this lie.

No I don't lie. People trust what I say, because if you lie you will get found out; I am regularly pleased and grateful (as it means I don't need to reply!) when posters such as @Triode User, @x RELIC x and many others reply to questions by using my posts from many years ago - and they are as relevant today as when they were posted.

With the Hugo M scaler I was totally surprised that the clip on ferrites made it sound brighter and flatter in depth, as I had expected that having put the chip ferrites into the driver (and I may add lot's of other things too to innately improve the 2GHz isolation), would mean that clip on ferrites would have no difference, or a small improvement; so to hear that it actually made it worse was bizarre, and totally contrary to expectations.

But different circumstances can give different results to different people, which is why I frequently pepper my SQ observations with YMMV comments.

 

[Deftone]

"If you tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything" - Mark Twain

 

[alphaman]

Ferrites do have the disadvantage of becoming magnetized over time. This may be one reason why "demag sweeps" (as found on XLO's Test & Burn-In CD) produce some beneficial results.

 

[Jawed]

No I don't lie. People trust what I say, because if you lie you will get found out;

Unfortunately, after years of you saying that USB was the optimal input on your DACs, people still think this is the case. Despite you having changed your mind, after doing more experiments, where you determined that optical is actually the reference input on your DACs.

With the Hugo M scaler I was totally surprised that the clip on ferrites made it sound brighter and flatter in depth, as I had expected that having put the chip ferrites into the driver (and I may add lot's of other things too to innately improve the 2GHz isolation), would mean that clip on ferrites would have no difference, or a small improvement; so to hear that it actually made it worse was bizarre, and totally contrary to expectations.

I've heard the same problems with a few ferrites. The sound quality changes as you increase ferrites and it eventually settles once you have put lots on the cable. This has always been my point, you must use lots.

I suggest you put 30 clip on ferrites per cable and re-asses your opinion. I have done the experiments with varying counts of clip on ferrites on various cables and heard the differences that you describe. If you are hasty then you come to the wrong conclusion.