[Digital Enigma]

Considering a lot of music isn’t recorded and mastered well and damage is done during this AD process wouldn’t it beneficial to have a selectable apodizing WTA filter?

 

[macfan]

Hello everyone - new member and first post but have lurking for a while. Sorry for the long post, just providing detail and background to my questions at the end.

I am currently in the market for at least one and possibly several Chord products for a new headphone centric system to supplement my main 2-channel system. The headphone system will be used in my office as a "desktop" audio system. During my search for this new system I have watched a number of Rob Watt's videos on his underlying design philosophy which have been compelling, informative and educational.

Desktop System
I would initially purchase a Hugo TT2 and add the M-Scaler later this year, or I could look at getting them both at the same time. Open to suggestions here. The size of the units and the goals of my project seem to align well with these items.

Mobile System
At some point I would consider a Hugo 2 or a Mojo 2 for portability and travel but not necessarily for use on a plane. Just something easier to tote over to a friends house or take on vacation to have a high quality conversation option for away from home use cases.

Headphones

1. ZMF Atrium Open
2. 96db/mW
3. 300 Ohm sensitivity

After all that here are my questions

1. Would you get the M-Scaler at the same time or later on?
2. Any thoughts on the Hugo 2 or Mojo 2 being able to drive the ZMF Atrium Open headphones (do not listen loud or for long periods of time)
3. Was considering using my Macintosh M3 laptop with Audirvana running on battery as source. Now, the current crop of Mac laptops do not support optical out per Rob's current guidelines in the CanJam 2024 presentation. I would have to go from USB-C to USB-B to the inputs on the Hugo TT2 or M-Scaler. Any thoughts on this? While it may not be best practice it would at least achieve the source running of battery.
4. An alternative to using my Mac laptop as a source is to use an Astell and Kern SP3000 which would allow be both battery powered and have optical into the Hugo TT2. However, for portability I am not sure how well it would drive the ZMF headphones. Here are the specs
   1. Unbalanced: 3.3 Vrms
   2. Balanced: 6.3 Vrms (Condition No Load) - not sure what that means.

Any guidance from those who have experience with these Chord products or general insight would be very appreciated. Blue skies.

 

[ecwl]

@macfan

1. If you’re asking, you should get M-Scaler later. Enjoy one thing at a time
2. The issue is mostly that different people listen at different volumes. At my Head-Fi meet, I find people who listen at -10dB quieter than me and at +25dB louder than me. It’s not possible for us to know how loud you would listen so kinda hard to know. I would say probably yes but not 100% sure.
3. M3 MacBook on battery to USB TT2 would sound great. I listen with my M1 MacBook Pro this way sometimes with my Hugo 2. Sounds the same as optical with my other optical sources.
4. I can’t comment on A&K SP3000 since I’ve never tried it. But I would go back to #1 and try to enjoy one thing at a time.

 

[SteveHulk]

Hello everyone - new member and first post but have lurking for a while. Sorry for the long post, just providing detail and background to my questions at the end.

I am currently in the market for at least one and possibly several Chord products for a new headphone centric system to supplement my main 2-channel system. The headphone system will be used in my office as a "desktop" audio system. During my search for this new system I have watched a number of Rob Watt's videos on his underlying design philosophy which have been compelling, informative and educational.

Desktop System
I would initially purchase a Hugo TT2 and add the M-Scaler later this year, or I could look at getting them both at the same time. Open to suggestions here. The size of the units and the goals of my project seem to align well with these items.

Mobile System
At some point I would consider a Hugo 2 or a Mojo 2 for portability and travel but not necessarily for use on a plane. Just something easier to tote over to a friends house or take on vacation to have a high quality conversation option for away from home use cases.

Headphones

1. ZMF Atrium Open
2. 96db/mW
3. 300 Ohm sensitivity

After all that here are my questions

1. Would you get the M-Scaler at the same time or later on?
2. Any thoughts on the Hugo 2 or Mojo 2 being able to drive the ZMF Atrium Open headphones (do not listen loud or for long periods of time)
3. Was considering using my Macintosh M3 laptop with Audirvana running on battery as source. Now, the current crop of Mac laptops do not support optical out per Rob's current guidelines in the CanJam 2024 presentation. I would have to go from USB-C to USB-B to the inputs on the Hugo TT2 or M-Scaler. Any thoughts on this? While it may not be best practice it would at least achieve the source running of battery.
4. An alternative to using my Mac laptop as a source is to use an Astell and Kern SP3000 which would allow be both battery powered and have optical into the Hugo TT2. However, for portability I am not sure how well it would drive the ZMF headphones. Here are the specs
   1. Unbalanced: 3.3 Vrms
   2. Balanced: 6.3 Vrms (Condition No Load) - not sure what that means.

Any guidance from those who have experience with these Chord products or general insight would be very appreciated. Blue skies.

If you have the finances to get the tt2 and the m scaler at the same time, I recommend getting a second-hand Dave instead. It will ultimately form the core of a much better system than the tt2. You will still be able to get an m scaler new or second-hand later.

 

[Reactcore]

Any guidance from those who have experience with these Chord products or general insight would be very appreciated. Blue skies.

You can also get Hugo2 and Mscaler first. It outperforms TT2 on its own in terms of transient timing.
You also have the benefit of H2 being off grid so it wont have a groundloop and fill in its purpose of mobillity.

You need a 3.5mm stereo to dual BNC cable to get 1M taps.

 

[gnomen]

I recommend getting a second-hand Dave instead

I would second this. I owned the MScaler/TT2 combo for many years and thought it was the bees knees. But times have moved on. I was going to upgrade to the DAVE but then decided to do some thorough listening tests and not be unduly influenced by the WTA theories. I ended up with a Weiss DAC which uses conventional dac chips (much to the scorn of some here ... ) but just does sound better. The DAVE was clearly better than my old M/TT2 combo, it's just that the Weiss was better again. The Weiss 501 has an excellent form factor for headphone listening in a second system and there are few used ones available at tasty prices. Weiss is also bullet proof in terms of RF contamination, which I expect the next gen Chord gear will be too.

 

[macfan]

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions. @Reactcore

I had thought about your suggestion but was not sure if I would be limited to a single BNC connection from the M-Scaler. Looked at the Hugo 2 documentation and it does support "Dual Data Mode" where each channel of a SPDIF connection would be the same as using dual BNC on the TT2. Other benefits would include:

• Direct USB-C support from Mac Laptop
• Battery powered so both DAC and laptop are battery powered when working in isolation
• Portable - take it with me to friends homes or hangout sessions for listening sessions
• Single cable on the Hugo 2 side for SPDIF so the split for 384 kHZ x2 would occur on the back of the M-Scaler
• Using an SDXC card in the laptop will allow up to 2TB of storage which is like adding another internal SSD at PCIe speeds
• While mobile - I could add the 2go which would remove both the laptop and M-Scaler but allow for flexibility on the go

I suppose I can have a custom cable made that would use Chords guidelines for dual data coax to go from the dual BNC connectors in the M-Scaler to a single RCA to hit max sample rate in the Hugo 2

• Tip: signal 1
• Ring: signal 2
• Sleeve: ground

This configuration would give a good deal of flexibility. The only thing I would need to be sure of if the Hugo 2 drives the headphones. The math seems to work would but may just have to give it go and see what happens.

 

[thePhones]

I ended up with a Weiss DAC

Nobody asked.

 

[macfan]

@gnomen - Interesting thought on the Weiss 501. I had looked at it a while ago but will revisit based on your recommendation. I have used some of Weiss's professional products at one point in time but that is now more than 20 years ago (sigh) - but worth checking out. I do like the size and appearance. One of the negatives to Chord is the form factor. While I like the "jelly bean" buttons the choice to have inputs on the left and right is a tough sell and something one would need to accept. I agree it is easy to be "unduly influenced by the WTA theories." While very interesting and compelling - I cannot get by why no one else takes a similar approach. My only conclusion is the theory and research are both unique and difficult and it is much easier to implement a design from off the shelf components than this type of design.

My Linn SDSM have their Organik DAC architecture which sounds wonderful and this is what lead me to Chord for the desktop system. Linn does not offer products like Chord. While the 501 is not inexpensive, it does seem to offer a lot and I am of the mindset of buy it once.


@SteveHulk - I will check out the Dave but did not consider it due to cost. Had not considered 2nd hand but will look to see what might be out there. I have done business with one of the reputable dealers here in the US but not too comfortable with sites like Audiogon at this price point.

 

[gnomen]

Nobody asked.

My point is just that listening trumps theory.

 

[gnomen]

@gnomen - Interesting thought on the Weiss 501. I had looked at it a while ago but will revisit based on your recommendation. I have used some of Weiss's professional products at one point in time but that is now more than 20 years ago (sigh) - but worth checking out. I do like the size and appearance. One of the negatives to Chord is the form factor. While I like the "jelly bean" buttons the choice to have inputs on the left and right is a tough sell and something one would need to accept. I agree it is easy to be "unduly influenced by the WTA theories." While very interesting and compelling - I cannot get by why no one else takes a similar approach. My only conclusion is the theory and research are both unique and difficult and it is much easier to implement a design from off the shelf components than this type of design.

My Linn SDSM have their Organik DAC architecture which sounds wonderful and this is what lead me to Chord for the desktop system. Linn does not offer products like Chord. While the 501 is not inexpensive, it does seem to offer a lot and I am of the mindset of buy it once.


@SteveHulk - I will check out the Dave but did not consider it due to cost. Had not considered 2nd hand but will look to see what might be out there. I have done business with one of the reputable dealers here in the US but not too comfortable with sites like Audiogon at this price point.

If you already know Weiss you know what i am talking about. Good luck either way, and keep us posted!

 

[thePhones]

My point is just that listening trumps theory.

I agree on that
And picking up on that. Rob has continuously improved the sound quality with each dac, superseding every other dac at least since Hugo when it comes to musical performance, showing there must be something right about his theory.
Picking an of the shelf dac-chip is not about knowing theory at all, it’s called laziness or worse incompetence.

 

[Whazzzup]

weiss has internal dsp and streamer, never mind different engineering sabre chips etc... i have read though that 501 and helios are legit quality. but that's what i think chord has been trying to do through mscaler, less streamer. and they haven't hit pay dirt yet thus new scaler coming.

 

[gnomen]

I agree on that
And picking up on that. Rob has continuously improved the sound quality with each dac, superseding every other dac at least since Hugo when it comes to musical performance, showing there must be something right about his theory.
Picking an of the shelf dac-chip is not about knowing theory at all, it’s called laziness or worse incompetence.

Completely agree. I have complete admiration for Rob Watts and the soundness of his approach. I must disagree with your last sentence, however, since there are many amazing DACs which use OTS chips. Their designers are by no means incompetent or lazy, as the audible results demonstrate.

 

[Whazzzup]

Completely agree. I have complete admiration for Rob Watts and the soundness of his approach. I must disagree with your last sentence, however, since there are many amazing DACs which use OTS chips. Their designers are by no means incompetent or lazy, as the audible results demonstrate.

I still use hugo 1 and TT1 frankly preferred them, so, imo. chord hit pay dirt with hugo, tt, and dave in 2015. and yes there are legit options that may be better out there that chord designers have alternate theories. but theory and musical enjoyment may or may not coincide