Watches - another passion of ours, it seems...post your pics!
Dec 8, 2016 at 9:42 AM Post #11,896 of 14,278
   
-I think that conclusion is a bit harsh; her work on just about anything else* for the past three decades has been impeccable, with a quick turnaround and reasonable prices.
 
*) Vintage Certinas and Tissots, Omegas both current and vintage (c.2500, c.1861, c.354 and c.321), a vintage IWC pocket watch, a 14270 Explorer...
 
As there's hardly anything magical about VC movements, I can only assume that there are other reasons for her preferring not to work on them. Her competence is not in doubt; neither is the benefit of a local watchmaker. :)

 
I'm sorry if you feel I'm being overly harsh but I can tell you, as a long time multiple Lange owner, these are not simple watches to service.  Ultimately, it's your watch, your money and I am in no way affiliated with either manufacture or watch maker: there is no benefit or cost to me in either circumstance.  Perhaps my guidance is coming from a genuine place.  I'm trying to give you some direction on something that you seem to have little experience in based, from my own.  
 
Taking it or leaving it is up to you.
 
I think the first thing that really needs to be established is what your watchmaker is defining as a "service".  A lot of watch makers call re-oiling a "service" versus a true disassembly, cleaning and reassembly of the entire movement.  Some watch makers do this, but leave large chunks together (like the escapement) and claim a "full disassembly".  To be frank, this a major factor in cost when it comes to a local watchmaker vs sending something back to the manufacture for a service and it is hard to truly know what you are getting with in the first case.  In the latter case, you know what you are paying for.  So what is she doing?  She will most certainly claim a full disassembly, but talk is cheap.  And just because she may have done it on a $300 Tissot for you, it is a very different story when it comes for $45,000 Lange.
 
Now let's talk about what she's done in the past - Rolex, Tissot and Omega.  I'm sorry, but that doesn't make a competent watch maker for a Lange or Patek.  I would not take a Ferrari to a guy who works on a lot of BMW.  BMW's are good cars, sure but they are no Ferrari when it comes to their complication.  Working on something like a Ferrari is a whole different ball game and that rings very true with the brands we are talking about here.  I'm sorry but her past experience with those timepieces means little to nothing in this context.
 
You're correct about there being nothing magical with VC calibers.  In face, VC's line is riddled with outsourced Piguet and JLC calibers - calibers are that widely used in many brands like Breguet, Blancpain, Jaquet Droz and so on.  Does she not service those brands, too?  If not, why not?  They are essentially the same from a service point of view.  Same movement, just different decorations.  The only thing I can surmise is she tried and messed up and now she's gun shy.  So you would entrust a Lange - something significantly more complicated - to someone who can't handle a VC?  To go back to the example above, you are thinking of taking your Ferrari to a mechanic who will service a BMW can't handle a Porsche.  So I caution you, her competence is absolutely in doubt in my eyes.  I think her eyes are wide with the opportunity to play with a Lange and charge for the very costly service.
 
I can tell you that in all of North America there is ONE watch maker trained by Lange to service Lange.  One.  Let's also talk about that ONE watch maker is capable of servicing for Lange: non-complicated Langes, only, in fact.  What's a non-complicated Lange?  Time only, big date and moon phase.  That's it.  You have a repeater, tourbillon or rattrapante, it's going back to Germany.  You have a chronograph, it's going back to Germany (if it needs a full service, he now does regulation on them).  Just consider that: there isn't someone properly capable of servicing a Lange chronograph in North America.  That's how difficult these watches are to deal with from a service perspective.  I also see that you are in Norway so Germany isn't quite as difficult to reach as it is from me; all the more reason to use Lange directly.
 
Everyone else is LITERALLY going by the seat of their pants.  They have no accesses to documentation, parts, or, God forbid, consultation.  It's all guess work for them.  Everything Lange makes is entirely unique to them and there are no other avenues for information - whereas something like how to service or parts for a Piguet 1150 - something that she won't service - can be had from a myriad of places and manufactures.  
 
Now let's say all this isn't enough for you: You are so certain that this watch maker with a friendly smile and who talks confidently using fancy terms like 'ebauche' that you entrust your Lange to her one day.  Let's say, just for fun, because she is a human and humans make mistakes (particularly ill-equipped humans), she messes up your Lange.  Sure you saved a few hundred bucks on the service but now you have to send your Lange to Germany and those few hundred bucks you saved will seem comedic.  
 
Now don't get me wrong: I am not against using a local watchmaker, even for high end pieces.  Heck, if you had a Philip Dufour (a very healthy notch above Lange) a local watch maker is your only real option.  But you have an option: Lange will take care of you.  And if you had a Dufour, I would encourage you to reach out to other Dufour owners and find out where they have taken theirs too so that you are using someone with actual Dufour expereince.
 
But it's your watch, and after all, she has serviced an IWC before...
 
Langes are handmade, very expensive, very exclusive timekeepers.  Don't drop it off at the mall to get serviced because it's cheap.  A Lange doesn't deserve that.  Just like a Ferrari doesn't deserve oil from Wal Mart.  You spend so much on a watch like this, please don't skimp on the care of it.  If that puts the watch out of your budget, sobeit.  Buy something you can afford to property maintain. It sounds like you already have a lovely collection of watches: you are already so lucky.
 
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
 
I wish you best,
 
-Paul
 
Dec 8, 2016 at 3:15 PM Post #11,899 of 14,278
Wonderful thread you all have going here. 
 
Just a quick word on what Paulie is saying. He may seem a bit harsh but what he is saying is factual. Some of us spend many of thousands on these timepieces. Proper maintenance should not be ignored. And more importantly the qualifications of the person performing the service should not be ignored. I personally send everything I can to the manufacturer. 
 
And here is a quick pic I took today of my latest acquisition. I've been lusting over one for awhile and finally pulled the trigger. 
 

 
Dec 8, 2016 at 9:43 PM Post #11,900 of 14,278
Wonderful thread you all have going here. 

Just a quick word on what Paulie is saying. He may seem a bit harsh but what he is saying is factual. Some of us spend many of thousands on these timepieces. Proper maintenance should not be ignored. And more importantly the qualifications of the person performing the service should not be ignored. I personally send everything I can to the manufacturer. 

And here is a quick pic I took today of my latest acquisition. I've been lusting over one for awhile and finally pulled the trigger. 




Great piece! I've always been so love/hate with Panerai. Haha be careful, it's super easy to get a watch magnetized around all that audio equipment! It's a cheap easy fix, thankfully, but I know plenty of people freak out when all the sudden their watch runs +40/day haha
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 4:09 AM Post #11,901 of 14,278
@bigfatpaulie
 
Thank you for a most thorough and illuminating reply (I am being sincere; I realize my tone may often come across as flippant even when it is not meant to be!) You addressed a number of points which I'll admit I have only paid scant attention to.
 
Good advice, which I suspect I may heed at the end of the day. I am, after all, fully inexperienced in the world of Langes, Pateks and the like, and I will probably grow more concerned about the well-being of the watch once it sits on my wrist - after all, this is still and abstract problem, as I cannot see myself converting my cash to The Dress Watch(tm) in at least another couple of years, the way my industry looks right now.
 
The one thing I take (slight) objection to, is the insinuations as to the competence, character and integrity of a professional you wouldn't possibly know the first thing about. (Well, second thing about, I guess, as I did volunteer that she expressly preferred not working on VCs.) She's not very good at throwing fancy words like 'ebauche' around, but she's been pretty good at staying alive in a business which has pretty much gone extinct in small-town Norway - as just about everybody just buys throwaway Mangos and Swatches or relies on their cell phone for telling the time, that is a feat which in my book is deserving of respect and support.
 
(Though not unconditionally so; obviously, I wouldn't entrust something with unusual complications for work there - we've got Bjerke, the big kahuna of Norwegian watchmakers for that kind of thing.)
 
Besides, Norwegian consumer protection laws serve as somewhat of a safety net - if the watch is accepted for service/repair and is damaged, the business is on the hook for getting it back to its original condition (our Better Business Bureau equivalent being the arbiter); any business carries insurance to cater for just such incidents.
 
Again, thanks. Definitely one of the most illuminating posts I've read on here in a while.
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 7:50 AM Post #11,902 of 14,278
I wouldn't service other than basic ETA movements and the likes at a local watchmaker/seller, unless they are specifically trained by Rolex, Omega or others to service their watches. Patek, Piguet, Constantin and Lange are the highest regarded manufacturers around, so I definitely wouldn't let other than the authorized people to service them.
 
Dec 9, 2016 at 1:28 PM Post #11,903 of 14,278
 
The one thing I take (slight) objection to, is the insinuations as to the competence, character and integrity of a professional you wouldn't possibly know the first thing about.  

 
My pleasure.  Honestly, my only intention is help.
 
My reasoning for insinuating that she isn't competent to service a Lange, along with questioning her character and integrity is solely based on the information you provided.  
 
You said: "she declined to offer any details why, but left the impression that VC were not as forthcoming when it came to parts & documentation to independent watchmakers as Lange and Patek were."
 
​That simply isn't true.  Both Lange and Patek are extraordinary tight on the distribution of parts, if at all, and only to very, very select specially trained watchmakers: for example Mr. Kotsopoulos in NYC (the one person in all of North America with access to Lange parts).  These are the certified watchmakers that the manufacturers would refer you directly to, should the circumstance merit it.  If she was a certified Lange or Patek watch maker, she would have likely just said so: but she didn't.  Parts and documentation for a VC with, for example, a JLC caliber, are much more widely available because the movements are used in so many different watches - parts and documentation becomes harder to control.  With both Lange and Patek, everything is made by them, for them, and only for them.  If she insinuated that Patek and Lange are more likely to sell her parts, that is a lie.  None of them will entertain it.  So that immediately makes me question her integrity and character - because she lied to you, to your face.
 
My comment about her not being able to correctly service a Lange or a Patek is based, again, on the fact that she has not been trained by either company to service their watches.  Period.  She has no documentation from the company (that was honestly obtained, at least) and has no access to original parts.  Again, a very good mechanic could MAYBE service a Ferrari depending on the issue.  Maybe.  But why risk it?
 
"Besides, Norwegian consumer protection laws serve as somewhat of a safety net - if the watch is accepted for service/repair and is damaged, the business is on the hook for getting it back to its original condition (our Better Business Bureau equivalent being the arbiter); any business carries insurance to cater for just such incidents."
 
Oh, she if she damages your watch the government will step in?  I'm sure that's a very simple, streamlined process with no complications or headache involved at all...
 
The fact of the matter is that if she damages a single screw, that watch will have to go back to Lange and supposedly (according to you) the government will make her pay for it.  I don't know if anyone else reading thinks it sounds as impractical as I do...  But consider this...
 
What if she damages something that you can't see (so you don't know).  A scratch on the underside of a plate or bridge, aftermarket screws or who knows what else.  Her covering it up to avoid the government forcing her to pay the astronomical fee to have it serviced at Lange and her already shown ability to deceive you make this situation seem plausible enough to me.  Now years go by with the hidden damage and you decide to sell you Lange.  And some other fellow gives you a lot of their hard earned money for it, and they get it serviced only to have the damage, or aftermarket parts or whatever, unbeknownst to you, discovered.  That's simply not fair.
 
And all this for what?  The sake of frugality?
 
I can tell you that most Lange and Patek buyers are savvy well informed individuals and most are steadfast in getting all service records and something not done correctly is a major red flag - likely devaluing your watch more than the service savings.  The alternative is, in my experience, if a transaction is done the watch is typically is sent to the manufacture along the way for a service and inspection.  
 
Again, all this to skimp out?  The benefit/risk scale seems extremely out of balance here.
 
Years ago I was lucky enough to visit the Lange manufactory in Glashütte.  It is full of very passionate, hardworking professionals.  I was wearing mine and a very kind watch maker there asked to see it.  I obliged and handed him my watch.  He looked at the back with a loupe, turned to his left and simply said, "Zhee made your vatch."  He could tell who made it just by looking at.  These items are more special than you may appreciate.
 
Please, if you are ever so lucky as to have the privilege of having one as part of your life, treat it with the respect that both it, and the dedicated people who made it, deserve.
 
Dec 21, 2016 at 9:44 PM Post #11,904 of 14,278
Some of my recent scores:
 
Casio G-Shock G-Lide GLS-100-7 with custom JaysAndKays ACU camo case and 22mm 5 ring NATO strap.
 

 
Decently rare vintage Casio G-Shock AW-560D-7CV with full face lum, with JaysAndKays 22mm adapter, and black/orange suede leather deployant band.
 

 
Squale Tiger White, limited to 200 worldwide, also with a full face lum.
 

 
Hamilton HML-H70575733 Khaki Field Black Titanium, with 22mm MiLTAT 3D Nylon Black Deployant strap. 
 

 
Orient Mako USA II in white with black/yellow deployant band, and Seiko SARG009 in green silicone with Rolex style deployant clasp.
 

 
Dec 21, 2016 at 10:51 PM Post #11,907 of 14,278
Nice G-Shock listen4joy! I saw one with the same casing at a store in Vegas and wanted to purchase it but didn't. Very rare watch to find these days!

Awesome G-Shocks, DrSheep!
 
Dec 21, 2016 at 10:52 PM Post #11,908 of 14,278
Dec 21, 2016 at 11:05 PM Post #11,910 of 14,278

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