[haloxt]

The topic is your experience on the sound quality effect of swapping cables. You anti-cablers have hijacked this thread and turned it into your own platform for promoting anti-cable ideas, you guys think everything is an invitation for your rants about objectivity and science and attacks on people who describe the differences they hear. It doesn't matter who is right, what matters is that pro-cablers stay on topic and you anti-cablers can't control yourselves.

And it so happens every single reply I've gotten from an anti-cabler shows the same inability to read single sentences properly. I said I don't give a ***** about certain anti-cablers, not that I don't give a ***** in general. There's a distinct difference between these two things, but your inability to exercise discernment in such a simple sentence is also a clue of your inability to hear something as subtle as cable differences, even if you had the equipment. To hear a difference in cables requres for most people a certain degree of patience and discernment, both of which are sadly lacking in most vocal anti-cablers.

 

[The Monkey]

maybe you need a timeout from the sound science forum.

 

[Jingo Lingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif maybe you need a timeout from the sound science forum.

Seconded.

Way too much unnecessary huffing and puffing going on here. As our good friend on the previous page would put it: "We're living in a society!"

 

[haloxt]

Believe it or not the accusations you anti-cablers have thrown at pro-cablers are so insulting most of us have decided to simply stop contributing (or contributing seriously) in cable discussions here on these forums. You think you have the moral high ground because when you keep hijacking threads while we're trying to have a discussion on cables we have the audacity to show our disapproval of your uninvited trolling always leading to your rants about objectivity? Keep patting yourselves on the back for being civilly superior, and keep your "society" to yourself, borg.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Believe it or not the accusations you anti-cablers have thrown at pro-cablers are so insulting most of us have decided to simply stop contributing (or contributing seriously) in cable discussions here on these forums.

That's probably a good thing. The cable discussions here are useless and go nowhere because each side reiterates its tired old arguments ad nauseum. I applaud your decision to pack it in and I encourage others to do the same.

 

[astroid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's probably a good thing. The cable discussions here are useless and go nowhere because each side reiterates its tired old arguments ad nauseum. I applaud your decision to pack it in and I encourage others to do the same.

I agree , waste of time, im out (as they say in dragons den)

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jingo Lingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif And what equipment would that be? Exactly my point, you don't even know what equipment and fail to specify if you are talking about audio or test equipment, how typical, defensive for no apparent reason other then to contradict me. This is the sound science forum. The study of a current passing through a cable lies in the realm of physics. Any data obtained through studying this relationship should be quantified in absolute terms. This isn't preposterous at all. And that doesn't change the fact that no one in this group of anti-cablers is capable of giving a definite answer to the cable debate, the fact this is the sound science section will never change that. The only "clowns" here are the ones who continue to blatantly show their ignorance towards any meaningful and objective science based discussion. People complain just about every day because they cant have a civil discussion about cables outside of the sound science section without having the same old muckidy mucks screwing it up for everyone, and you know it. This is why I will remain here to point out every single BS statement that is written, its what you guys deserve. Oh dear. I don't know how anyone can have an ounce of respect for your opinion. Head-fi is really becoming bogged down with people like you who ruin this place for anyone who wants to have an intelligent and civil discussion. Quite a shame. Your little group of clowns will not hold up to your own standards of etiquette and most of the time are the first ones to to start with laughing at people who have put lots of time and money into this and they mock those people, people they should be listening too. The correct word is hypocrite.

The more you fight about this stuff, the more you make my points valid. Why do you think they made the sound science section in the first place? Because this forum is a place for people to exchange impressions about audio equipment and you nut jobs continue to screw that up for everyone even when the thread in question is not posted in the sound science section. I have even had mods ask me for names of people who post outside of the sound science section, maybe I should just start reporting people and let you monkeys hang yourselves.

 

[Jingo Lingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif The more you fight about this stuff, the more you make my points valid. Why do you think they made the sound science section in the first place? Because this forum is a place for people to exchange impressions about audio equipment and you nut jobs continue to screw that up for everyone even when the thread in question is not posted in the sound science section. I have even had mods ask me for names of people who post outside of the sound science section, maybe I should just start reporting people and let you monkeys hang yourselves.

Wow, what is your deal? You're now resorting to calling people monkeys? What are you 12 years old? I feel ridiculous even replying to your rubbish. If the mods are seeking assistance from an idiot such as yourself then this place has totally gone downhill. You should be banned for this crap.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jingo Lingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow, what is your deal? You're now resorting to calling people monkeys? What are you 12 years old? I feel ridiculous even replying to your rubbish. If the mods are seeking assistance from an idiot such as yourself then this place has totally gone downhill. You should be banned for this crap.

Im not banneded because they feel the same way I do, you guys treat people in a way that deserves my kind of reaction. It common sense really. You must think its ok to ridicule people because of their expensive cables, this is why you guys are eligble to be treated anyway we like to treat you. Let me show you the difference.

Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by olblueyez How many of the nonbelievers have a system worthy of a 300 dollar set of IC's (Based on the 10 percent rule if you like) and use cables like the ones pictured below?

Quote:

HAHA What 10% rule are you talking about? There is no such thing as a "rule", that is such nonsense... So first you get angry saying that we "non believers" come here telling what someone can listen to or not... (which is a lie) BUT then you actually "make" a "rule" stating how much percentage of the money you spent in your equipment has to go to cables???

Quote:

I just destroyed my Frank Sinatra collection. Negative association. Maybe I should have tried hypnotherapy first.....

I have to say that this is a really weak and misleading argument.

Quote:

This cable debate only exists in the consumer audio world, not in the professional audio world. Generally, professional and commercial recording studios worldwide use quite standard priced cabling. This is because the professionals do not have any proof (scientific or personal experience) which indicates there is any appreciable difference. To say professional audio engineers, producers, etc., are incapable of hearing a difference, predisposed not to hear a difference, unable to test a cable or just plain cheap, is either incredibly ignorant or is presenting deliberately misleading information in order to promote their own personal opinion/agenda. By all means try out different cables for yourself if you wish. Bare in mind though that you are likely to get very polarized views on this forum. There are a lot of people on Head-Fi who believe they can hear differences between cables and are very vociferous with their opinions, regardless of the opinion of the professional audio world or indeed of the science. G

Quote:

^Because pink elephants are not living in your beard. Quote: Seriously speaking it is obvious, isn't it? I'm sorry but I've heard this argument quite a few times before on Head-Fi, that you need some or all of the following to hear the difference between cables: High quality audio equipment. Intimate experience of their system. Trained ears. Intimate knowledge of the music. This is just another irrational, poorly thought out and easily disproved argument: - I would consider myself highly trained and highly experienced with both music performance and it's creation/recording/production. I've worked with several multi-million dollar monitoring environments / audio systems and in/with many of the world's most renown concert venues, musicians and orchestras. I'm not trying to blow my own trumpet, just pointing out that I have at least as much familiarity with music and high quality audio systems as anyone suggesting that this is the key to hearing the difference between cables. I've done countless tests with cables and other audio equipment and neither I nor any of my past or present colleagues can hear a difference between cables. This isn't just the opinion of me and a few other doubters, this is the general consensus of the entire professional audio world! In fact, one of the quickest ways to get an experienced audio professional to start laughing (and roll their eyes) is to mention audiophile cables. So maybe the argument should be; you need good quality consumer gear and moderate experience and understanding of music to hear a difference but with modest consumer gear and knowledge or with very high quality pro gear and professional expertise then the differences can't be heard!! If people out there think they hear obvious differences between cables then that's their perception and they are entitled to it. But when the argument is made that it's because others (who can't hear a difference) have inferior quality gear or inferior quality audio analysis skills then I and other experienced professionals know that falsehood is being peddled in a seriously flawed attempt to convert "non-believers". I understand that decent arguments for the "believers" are difficult to come by. They are fighting decades of science in the fields of Biology, Physics and Electronics, as well as double blind testing, the consensus of the professional audio world and all the other "non-believers". So I appreciate you cable "believers" are in a pretty tight corner, but please, try to come up with an argument which contains at least some credibility. G

Quote:

Just elitism or just desperately trying to justify the prices some have paid for their snake oil.

Quote:

I don't have a system like Unkle Erik does. But my listening system is comprised of all after market cables, most of em DIY with UPOCC neotech, which to date is the best copper wiring available. No difference between that and stock cables. I have these because Audio is my hobby and I enjoy it both in making the cables and in collecting audio equipment. But I am not delusioned. Hell I even bought aftermarket power cables, I enjoy the experience and owning them. But I don't view any of my cables as making a difference, but a nice addition to a fun hobby. And I know I'm not alone in this as in a good DBT most will not hear difference between a coat hanger and a monster cable. But again, those who parade around saying cables make a difference, to me are just elitists crying you need to spend more money to hear a difference. But great to see you were offended by my comment. Proves my point about elitism. When someone like me said your cables are snake oil, you had to respond. Proves my point. I find it hilarious skeptics like myself are always assumed or questioned about what audio gear and what cables we own. And from what I have read, majority of the skeptics in fact do own aftermarket cables which is how we came to our conclusions. But whatever, I'm sure I need to spend more money to hear a difference right?

Quote:

See lie #1 and lie #4 from the The 10 Biggest Lies in Audio.

Lame excuse, especially considering the HUGE differences that cable believers like to put in their cable reviews/impressions right after they buy them.

Oh by all means take your familiar cable that you have become good friends with and test it against the stock one you replaced it with. You will still fail.

Quote:

Also - if it takes eons to get familiar with the cable (which you still cant ABX) then I would assert that the money spent is not worth it.

Quote:

Also a reasonable post. I again will take the opposite stance: you say "subtle differences" but your cable review is hardly subtle. And it is we who are hounded and called tin-eared and owners of sub-par systems that can't resolve the differences that you can't prove exist. Remember it is you who are making the unproven, undemonstrated and unsubstantiated claim that cables somehow sound different.

Quote:

I am with Genius on this one, you cable lovers contradict yourselves all the time, blue eyes you are full of it, you say things like "This will improve the sound you get out of the amp you have coming by about 90 percent" , how the hell do you do the maths on that. You state in one thread that you can hear differences when swapping cables straight away and when challenged about DBT claim you meant the change was in the music? You are also sooo rude to anyone who disagrees with you, in short i think you are a pratt (please dont add me to your ignore me list , i will upset me sooo much). You think that USB cables can effect sound (if designed to the USB standard ,it cant), what are you on. Go back to school , study physics and grow a brain and some manners. All you cable fanboys annoy me , i actually believe that some cables can make a difference (speaker cable mainly) but your flat out refusal to take part in any objective test just shows you have noting but blind faith and snobbery to support your assertions.

Quote:

Oh and as for not being asked to test, i asked you a while back and you said you did not "feel the need to". You seem to know exactly what percentage improvement a component will make , wow you truly do have golden ears. Maybe you should open a cable shop you thick ****.

Quote:

Know-it-all bitches duking it out over magic cables....you can't make this **** up.

Quote:

Now this is the story about how my opinion on interconnects turned upside down: I thought interconnects didn't make any difference. I had made some DIY cables and stock cables (very cheap ones) that made no difference at all. After all the bashing I decided to buy a cardas mini-mini cable and try it with my equipment. Everyone claimed you needed to have experience. Well so I settled the test. (Get ready) Impressive how the soundstage opened, bass appeared more dynamic, the sibilance was no longer there. And I could not keep those thoughts to myself. I had to tell it to my friends, so left the music playing (to burn in) and went outside. I whistled for a cab and when it came near, the license plate said fresh and had a dice in the mirror. If anything I could say that this cab was rare. I pulled up to a house about seven or eight and I yelled to the cabbie 'Yo homes smell ya later' I looked at my kingdom I was finally there. To sit on my throne as the Prince of Bel Air

Quote:

oleblueeyes you are one of the worst members here at Head Fi. Stick to the debating the issues or ****. Your constant walking all over threads with your obvious attitude problem is getting tiresome.

Save the etiquette lessons for someone else.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which one of you guys is going to buy this thing? Wire World - Homepage

$450 in 1998 and reviewd here

May 98 issue of Sound Off

Basically I was wrong, it seems as if allows you to do single blind tests, you set the internal switches manually and the tester choses a position for the selector and so the listener always has a consistent cable/switch combination.

I searched long and hard for any published results from this system and could not find any. I am surprised by this since cable manufacturers at least would surely want to publish results showing that their cables were consistently chosen by listeners.

I have emailed Wireworld for clarification, it will be interesting to see what they say.

 

[CodeToad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Save the etiquette lessons for someone else.

The implication that you have the mods blessing for your behavior really carries no weight as it has been my experience that a handful of them are as bad offenders as yourself in this respect. Everybody has a bad day(s) but it seems to me everywhere YOU post there is a contentious "air". It follows YOU.

The rule is simple...overlook the dumb****. The "sense of humor" sometimes doesn't cross cultural lines and is easy to misinterpret. By personalizing and attacking other posters instead of focusing on the issue at hand ALWAYS comes off as immaturity. I'm as guilty as anyone in this thread but I TRY not to make it a constant, irritating habit. Please give it shot.

 

[iriverdude]

I believe in getting affordable but quality cables. Recently bought Mark Grant cables and seem quality. I may spend a bit more but certainly not more than £100 for a pair of RCA stereo cables. Less if need several in one go, ie for 5.1 run as six £100 pairs is a bit much.

 

[BIG POPPA]

The 10% rule was thrown around in the early 80's. This is when you could spend 300 dollars on a decent piece of equipment and spend 30 bucks on a good cable. Worked at a stereo store as one of my first jobs. Remembered the first walkman when it came out. Who remembers recording on a TDK- SA-X and thought it was a good recording? Those where the days.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CodeToad /img/forum/go_quote.gif The implication that you have the mods blessing for your behavior really carries no weight as it has been my experience that a handful of them are as bad offenders as yourself in this respect. Everybody has a bad day(s) but it seems to me everywhere YOU post there is a contentious "air". It follows YOU. The rule is simple...overlook the dumb****. The "sense of humor" sometimes doesn't cross cultural lines and is easy to misinterpret. By personalizing and attacking other posters instead of focusing on the issue at hand ALWAYS comes off as immaturity. I'm as guilty as anyone in this thread but I TRY not to make it a constant, irritating habit. Please give it shot.

You should be the last person to speak of another's behaviour.

 

[myinitialsaredac]

Not going to get into the above argument, but back to the OP, I believe that whether its electrical, mechanical, or mental, interconnects change the sound.
The change is subtle, but to my ears it is as present as changing anything else in the chain, I strongly suggest you try some interconnects from somewhere with a nice return policy and experience the phenomena for yourself.

Dave