[astroid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the problem is how do we know you didn't just make a duplicate of the same file. Or if you're just going to interpret olblueyez's findings to suit yourself? And the most olblueyez can do is say A sounds different from B, and if he says the cheap IC sounds better than the cambridge IC, it doesn't automatically mean there's no difference between cables or he's suffering from placebo, because nobody knows just how cable differences manifest. Then there's also the possibility that olblueyez DOES guess which one is the cambridge one, but then anti-cablers can rightly say he probably just guessed because there's only a 50/50 chance of being right if he guessed. The only real conclusion we can draw is that "IF there is a cable difference it can't be determined with this test". Do the unscientific test though, I'm interested in what heights we can reach with useless arguing.

I dont want or need him to try to identify which is whicj , just see if he can consistantly identify a difference.
If he cant he cant , if he can well done.
For the record i tried and failed to consistantly identify one.

 

[haloxt]

I can hear a difference all the time.

 

[astroid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can hear a difference all the time.

You are not listening for musical diff but noticing the difference at the end i take it (track ends slightly different point?).

 

[haloxt]

No I was just kidding, I just downloaded your files and I can't tell a difference atm.

edit: I'll try to make two files too, gimme an hour or two. btw I am still not certain about a difference, it sounds so similar. Still analyzing but I am leaning towards one file.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well the problem is how do we know you didn't just make a duplicate of the same file.

The files are different and not just at the end, I checked this myself

Quote:

Or if you're just going to interpret olblueyez's findings to suit yourself? And the most olblueyez can do is say A sounds different from B, and if he says the cheap IC sounds better than the cambridge IC, it doesn't automatically mean there's no difference between cables or he's suffering from placebo, because nobody knows just how cable differences manifest.

Preference is largely irrelevant here, being able to tell them apart at all would be the thing. The differences are tiny and I use the word advisedly. If OB can genuinely tell them apart at all in a blind test then I would be highly impressed.


Quote:

Then there's also the possibility that olblueyez DOES guess which one is the cambridge one, but then anti-cablers can rightly say he probably just guessed because there's only a 50/50 chance of being right if he guessed.

Tha is why a blind test such as FooBar's that keeps score of how often you get it right and how often you do not is valuable. It means OB has to be consistent - 8/10 is a workable minimum but 14/16 would be better.

Quote:

The only real conclusion we can draw is that "IF there is a cable difference it can't be determined with this test". Do the unscientific test though, I'm interested in what heights we can reach with useless arguing.

Not quite. If OB can reliably tell the two samples apart then he can justly say that he can detect a very small difference. If he fails then we can say that with this music sample and these cables that this subject under these conditions cannot detect a difference and we have one data point.

Not much admittedly , but a data point none the less.

If a $100 cable is not obviously audibly different from a coathanger , an item not designed to carry audio signals, then the $100 cable does not represent terribly good value ...

 

[haloxt]

A coathanger might possess properties that make for a good cable. The obvious drawback is it's not flexible and so a $100 cable can still represent good value. Btw we've said it a million times, you gotta get familiar with the test equipment first so blah to you.

Btw I'm having difficulties, my wavelab and also ht omega halo soundcard software has serious issues with vista can anyone recommend a good recording program besides wavelab and maybe I can get it to work? My headphone cables will be easy to test since they are 1/8 male on one end and 1/4 on the other.

 

[olblueyez]

Its ok, dont worry about it, I have said from the beginning that testing like this is useless and if I choose wrong then that makes my point. Wasnt it me who always recommended people spend at least a few weeks with one cable listening to their favorite tracks and then to swap out the cables? Have I not been telling people that cables do make a difference, but yet he uses an adapter cable? Was it not me who said if your system is up to the task of exploiting the better cables? Didnt Nick use some cables that toped out at about 100 dollars just to come back and say they are all alike? Didnt his testing prove that they are indeed not alike but had different measurements? Is 2 min of Frank (in the studio) not a bad way to listen for dynamics and detail? Will I listen to two different cables, or will I listen to two different recordings? I guess we will have to tune in to the same Bat channel on Wednesday to find out the answer to all of this and more.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif A coathanger might possess properties that make for a good cable.

Clearly it does as it works fine for this recording

Quote:

The obvious drawback is it's not flexible and so a $100 cable can still represent good value.

Um, if a $100 cable is not audibly better than a 70c coathanger I beg to differ on your conclusion, you are paying $93.30 for the flexibility and nothing else ?

Value ????????

Perhaps a stock flexible ($0.77) cable vs a $100 cable would be a better test, oh wait I have done that already

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f21/my...rprise-405217/

Quote:

Btw we've said it a million times, you gotta get familiar with the test equipment first so blah to you.

You can say this another mllion times if you like, it does not however make it true. Also you can spend as long as you like with these samples listen to them a 1000 times if you wish.

Quote:

Btw I'm having difficulties, my wavelab and also ht omega halo soundcard software has serious issues with vista can anyone recommend a good recording program besides wavelab and maybe I can get it to work? My headphone cables will be easy to test since they are 1/8 male on one end and 1/4 on the other.

Audacity works fine, works under Vista and it is free !

 

[haloxt]

Coathangers are cheap because they are a well-developed product. Custom cables are a niche market and the price of a $100 custom cable could perhaps be made $5 if it was produced and distributed with the same efficiency as coathangers.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Didnt Nick use some cables that toped out at about 100 dollars just to come back and say they are all alike? Didnt his testing prove that they are indeed not alike but had different measurements?

Read my thread again before you put words in my mouth. I very cleary stated the measurable (small) differences I found between cables. I also stated that I could not detect an audible difference between them and provided samples so that others with better hearing could attempt this.

I certainly opined about how significant *I* felt these differences were and how I felt they behaved in the exact same way none materially changing the frequency response more than any other but I never for one moment denied finding measurable differences.

Please be accurate !

 

[olblueyez]

I have never seen a coat hanger with RCA's and shielding. Thus the coat hanger doesnt really cost 70c when used for audio applications.

 

[olblueyez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Read my thread again before you put words in my mouth. I very cleary stated the measurable (small) differences I found between cables. I also stated that I could not detect an audible difference between them and provided samples so that others with better hearing could attempt this. I certainly opined about how significant *I* felt these differences were and how I felt they behaved in the exact same way none materially changing the frequency response more than any other but I never for one moment denied finding measurable differences. Please be accurate !

Sorry Nick, im having a hard time finding the difference. I think I need to get hooked on Phonics.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Coathangers are cheap because they are a well-developed product. Custom cables are a niche market and the price of a $100 custom cable could perhaps be made $5 if it was produced and distributed with the same efficiency as coathangers.

Many cables are made and sold for $5 or less, I have plenty of them and they work just fine. But you are still missing the point if a $100 cable offers no audible benefit over a cobbled together coathanger then why not just break out the soldering iron.......

But there is a wider point you are also missing. If a coathanger makes just as good a cable as a super-duper cable it seems that materials, topology, shielding, heatshrink, plugs and soldering make no difference whatsoever. So if that is given what confidence do we have that a $100 cable will be better than my $0.77c stock cable , maybe I should test this - oh wait I already did

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have never seen a coat hanger with RCA's and shielding. Thus the coat hanger doesnt really cost 70c when used for audio applications.

It gives me the strength to go when I see someone else here has enough integrity to understand the importance of supply and demand. I'd also like to add that if coathanger cables were made by aftermarket cablers they'd easily sell for $30+. On the other hand, Sennheiser is using silver-plated cables in their new HD-800, and the cost of that cable perhaps costs them pennies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many cables are made and sold for $5 or less, I have plenty of them and they work just fine. But you are still missing the point if a $100 cable offers no audible benefit over a cobbled together coathanger then why not just break out the soldering iron....... But there is a wider point you are also missing. If a coathanger makes just as good a cable as a super-duper cable it seems that materials, topology, shielding, heatshrink, plugs and soldering make no difference whatsoever. So if that is given what confidence do we have that a $100 cable will be better than my $0.77c stock cable , maybe I should test this - oh wait I already did

DIY'ers save a lot of money, they should make coathanger cables. and you are building a lot of BS on the assumption that coathangers sound as good as "a super-duper cable" and no comment from me.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have never seen a coat hanger with RCA's and shielding. Thus the coat hanger doesnt really cost 70c when used for audio applications.

Okay buy a $77c cable from monoprice and strip the RCA plugs from that , then wrap the coathanger wire in insulating tape - $0.50