[sinquito]

Quote:

 If you can let us know what you like about the B2's and what you are looking for, I'm sure someone else or I can answer your questions more precisely.

I can't say for sure because my B2 have some rare imbalanced issue, but they sound to me very transparent, clear, not lacking anything. I think that is the only 'phone I have used that doesn't need any eq to sound at it best, actually eq´d they sound unreal/not right. I don't think that they are harsh or sibilant on the high frequencies. The XBA-4 out of a walkman z1000 sounded harsh and sibilant on comparison.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

You're unfortunately making the assumption that what you write will be read the way you intended. There is no voice to back up your words and no body language. My comment was just about wording, nothing more really. As soon as you have something posted, it's like art and you can only control the intended interpretation to a certain extent, and never completely. Belittling people is an extreme of condescension; I'm of the impression that there are shades of grey, and again not in the sense that any was intended on your part. As an example of what i was trying to say: your wording implies that you assume I must have misread what you wrote as opposed to miswritten what you meant. And since when you write here, you write for others as opposed to yourself, the burden would fall on you to get your message across as intended and not the other way around.
Personally, I have no problem with you and am interested to read your opinions and hope you stay. I don't know how I'm coming across to you, but my intention here is positive.
I've never heard the ER-4 so I'm curious. As someone who reaaaally likes it, do you think the GR07 does anything better?

I understand your intention. I also think I got a bit too defensive myself, in reaction to others' being somewhat impatient. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes, and I don't think Eke and the others did, either. Can't put out fire with fire, as they say.
 
The GR07 has much greater bass dynamic range. That's all I can think of for now, from a purely technical standpoint. Funny thing is, that extra dynamic range advantage doesn't even apply to me, as I don't listen to thumping music, or at least not at excessive volumes. GR07 punches much harder if un-EQ. If EQ'd to have about the same energy as ER4S, it becomes obvious that the Etys has a tighter reign on bass.

 

[tigon_ridge]

I forgot to mention this: The major consensus is that the ER4S requires an amp to really be at full potential. I've never listened to it without an amp, so I can't comment on how it sounds unamped; which many have said is underwhelming. I guess that's one other thing the GR07 has on them.

 

[vwinter]

Thanks for the input. I thought the GR07 bass was relatively quick for a dynamic and for the amount of bass it had relatively quick attack and the dynamic range you mentioned which created really strong texture to the low end. This maybe creates the impression that it's faster than it actually is.

I was also thinking about what you said in regard to speed and reproduction of a recording and maybe I can't wrap my head around it but I can't imagine a driver fast enough to completely marginalize it's own transient characteristics in reproducing sound. Does that makes sense?

In any case, I'd love to hear the ER-4 someday. It's been stronghold of the IEM world for so long that it warrants hearing at least once I think.

 

[vwinter]

I can't say for sure because my B2 have some rare imbalanced issue, but they sound to me very transparent, clear, not lacking anything. I think that is the only 'phone I have used that doesn't need any eq to sound at it best, actually eq´d they sound unreal/not right. I don't think that they are harsh or sibilant on the high frequencies. The XBA-4 out of a walkman z1000 sounded harsh and sibilant on comparison.

Yea, I don't know if the GR07 would satisfy you. They have good clarity due to the black background, but I suspect the more uneven top end might be a bit harsh and the sound generally too laid back, disregarding texture.

The BA200 is a lot smoother, a bit quicker and has the balanced armature clarity you'd want but the treble might be too laid back.

Like I said, both are great and would be a nice friend to your B2.

I don't know your budget but If you are looking for a clear upgrade, while I haven't heard them, maybe do some research on the Audio ATH-CK100 Pro or the Phonak Audeo PFE 232. Though in that price range you can also start looking at customs which I have no experience with.

Hope that helps.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

Yea, I don't know if the GR07 would satisfy you. They have good clarity due to the black background, but I suspect the more uneven top end might be a bit harsh and the sound generally too laid back, disregarding texture.
The BA200 is a lot smoother, a bit quicker and has the balanced armature clarity you'd want but the treble might be too laid back.
Like I said, both are great and would be a nice friend to your B2.
I don't know your budget but If you are looking for a clear upgrade, while I haven't heard them, maybe do some research on the Audio ATH-CK100 Pro or the Phonak Audeo PFE 232. Though in that price range you can also start looking at customs which I have no experience with.
Hope that helps.

 
I haven't heard them, but from my understanding, the phonak pfe 232 should sound awesome.  The pfe112 sounds excellent, but they lack great bass.  The pfe 232 should make up for most of that and has a similar enough fr curve.  Price wise though, I'm not sure about the value... I would need to hear them.  The xba-3 i'm using right now is the best i've heard vs. the pfe112 so far with the right tips in.  The wrong tips make a bad metallic treble signature (not that bad, but relatively speaking).  The tips that work best for me almost completely eliminate the metallic-ness and they provide a really neutral bass and clarity that surpass the pfe.  The pfe has the best overall balance in my opinion, besides the lacking bass, but the sonys have more depth in the treble.  I hear into the 3d space of the recording environment more than with the pfe in most songs.
 
The gr07 has a treble signature that also give you good traits, such as making instruments stand out well and providing an interesting depth of sound, however for me they sounded unnatural in the treble and do much better in the bass regions.  Plus they had some sibilance I didn't like.  And despite the treble properties that I mentioned, they don't really open up at the highest end of the spectrum, so you don't get the real airy-ness you get with the sonys or phonaks.  So, I guess it depends on what you're looking for in treble.  The ba200 sound great and have a nice treble curve, but unfortunately they also drop off at the highest end and don't sound really "crisp" or "airy".  They still have great detail and separation, etc., but they just don't "do it" for me musically.

 

[vwinter]

I haven't heard them, but from my understanding, the phonak pfe 232 should sound awesome.  The pfe112 sounds excellent, but they lack great bass.  The pfe 232 should make up for most of that and has a similar enough fr curve.  Price wise though, I'm not sure about the value... I would need to hear them.  The xba-3 i'm using right now is the best i've heard vs. the pfe112 so far with the right tips in.  The wrong tips make a bad metallic treble signature (not that bad, but relatively speaking).  The tips that work best for me almost completely eliminate the metallic-ness and they provide a really neutral bass and clarity that surpass the pfe.  The pfe has the best overall balance in my opinion, besides the lacking bass, but the sonys have more depth in the treble.  I hear into the 3d space of the recording environment more than with the pfe in most songs.

The gr07 has a treble signature that also give you good traits, such as making instruments stand out well and providing an interesting depth of sound, however for me they sounded unnatural in the treble and do much better in the bass regions.  Plus they had some sibilance I didn't like.  And despite the treble properties that I mentioned, they don't really open up at the highest end of the spectrum, so you don't get the real airy-ness you get with the sonys or phonaks.  So, I guess it depends on what you're looking for in treble.  The ba200 sound great and have a nice treble curve, but unfortunately they also drop off at the highest end and don't sound really "crisp" or "airy".  They still have great detail and separation, etc., but they just don't "do it" for me musically.

I mostly agree on the BA200 treble without any specific testing. But I find them generally more enjoyable than my XBA-4 which from my in store audition I found more enjoyable than the XBA-3 which sounded a bit uninspired, definitely a safe choice. The XBA-4 is an odd bird of an IEM, but it's interesting in that it can excel and crash at the same time lol. Oddly enough, I can completely understand why you would like them for the exact reason that I found them uninspiring. That's the beauty of this game =)

My favorite treble so far is the FX700 if I had to pick. TWFK treble is also fine by me. That's all from memory though.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Reponses in bold.
Quote:

Thanks for the input. I thought the GR07 bass was relatively quick for a dynamic and for the amount of bass it had relatively quick attack and the dynamic range you mentioned which created really strong texture to the low end. The GR07 bass is fantastic, I must say. It's preferable (to the ER4S) bass if one prefers a bassier than accurate presentation and bass-heavy music.

This maybe creates the impression that it's faster than it actually is. It also creates the impression that it's much longer decay. I think it's only slightly longer than the ER4S's decay.

I was also thinking about what you said in regard to speed and reproduction of a recording and maybe I can't wrap my head around it but I can't imagine a driver fast enough to completely marginalize it's own transient characteristics in reproducing sound. Does that makes sense? If I understand your question right, I don't think transient response can ever be too quick.

In any case, I'd love to hear the ER-4 someday. It's been stronghold of the IEM world for so long that it warrants hearing at least once I think. I love its sound, but there seems some strong contenders these days: RE272, Fitear f111, GR-01, and Tzar 350, are ones that I can name. I haven't heard any of them. If you're going to listen to the 4S, be sure it's amped. Judging by the graph of the 4P, its treble is likely way too extremely subdued for my taste.

 

[sinquito]

Thanks a lot for everyone's responses my budget is $200 max so no customs or PFE232 

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

Thanks a lot for everyone's responses my budget is $200 max so no customs or PFE232 

:-/  same here.  i'd love me some 232's haha...

 

[vwinter]

Thanks a lot for everyone's responses my budget is $200 max so no customs or PFE232 

Yea, under $200 looks like mainly sidegrades with changes in signature or presentation, but I haven't heard a ton of stuff. Anyone care to chime in?

@tigon_ridge
That's what I mean, reproductive systems will always be inherently limited in that way. But I think that makes it interesting. Even if a driver allowed for perfect reproduction of obviously also perfect source, and a perfect chain throughout, there will always be someone who says "yeaaa, but how about if we add a little zing..."

I'd love to hear the Fitear models too, as well as some of the new higher end dynamics.

 

[tigon_ridge]

And there will always be those who wants a more zing, or different kinds of zings, than others. Hence, we have head-fi, where collections of zings are laid out and shed light on by users' impressions. For me, the less zing, the better. Solid state amps and the most accurate DAC's for me, please.

 

[luisdent]

Quote:

And there will always be those who wants a more zing, or different kinds of zings, than others. Hence, we have head-fi, where collections of zings are laid out and shed light on by users' impressions. For me, the less zing, the better. Solid state amps and the most accurate DAC's for me, please.

I'm more than happy with a zingless sound.  For me zing is precisely the lack of all zing.

 

[putente]

It seems that the new GR07 facelift (it will feature a new shell design and probably made in metal) will be revealed in a month or so, according to VSONIC's CEO. Here's the original annoucement:
 
 

VSONIC声学旗下GR07系列将会在1个月左右迎来一次小改款，主要针对外观细节做工不完美等进行修改，重新开设一套模具。另外此款圈铁上市后，后期还有1款旗舰圈铁正在研发当中。作为国产技术巅峰的 同轴双单元耳塞，平板单元小耳塞 将在圈铁发布后陆续进行发布，涉及到2款技术的耳塞，售价均会超过2000元

 
 
I think he's also talking about the new VSONIC model in that announcement, the V7007 (former "GR08"). It would be great if someone fluent in mandarin could do a good translation of that text... 

 

[Leoptimistic]

For those who don't follow the GR08 (V7007) thread, here's my translation. Some details may be misinterpreted as I'm not all that familiar with Chinese audiophile terms although Mandarin is my mother tongue.
 
Quote:

It seems that the new GR07 facelift (it will feature a new shell design and probably made in metal) will be revealed in a month or so, according to VSONIC's CEO. Here's the original annoucement:
 
 
 
 
I think he's also talking about the new VSONIC model in that announcement, the V7007 (former "GR08"). It would be great if someone fluent in mandarin could do a good translation of that text... 

Translation:
 
Vsonic's GR07 series will undergo a slight modification around January, which deals specifically with the aesthetic flaws of these IEMs and will use a newly designed mould for production. After this is released in the market, you can expect a new flagship dynamic [I'm not familiar with the term "圈铁" in audiophile language, but it could mean hybrid rather than dynamic driver as it is an amalgamation of "动圈 (dynamic)+动铁(BA)]  that is currently in development. The most technologically superior (in the domestic market) dual driver IEM [Translator: prossibly referring to the V7007, which is due for release in February, seeing that it will be released after January when the new GR07s enter the market], as well as planar IEM will be subsequently revealed after the dynamic IEMs have been released. These new IEMs will be priced at more than 2000 Chinese Yuan/Renminbi.