[SLC1966]

Bob: I know you are a fanboy of Erlkonig and Elysium. Please first tell me about the sound differences between Erlkönig and PHöNIX.

SLC: Yes, I do enjoy the sound of Erlkonig and Elysium and that is why I still have them. I have spent a lot of time listening to Erlk and now am spending a lot of time listening to Phonix and I have compared them a lot.

My take is that there are of course a lot of similarities but what it seems to me that VE did is they took Erlk bass from position number 2 and kept that (but they sound different which I will get to). They then either through the new super tweeter or tuning or both increased the staging with the Phonix. This allows a lot more breathing room for the instruments. It does take away from the Erlk intimacy and warmth. But it has added an amazing amount of detail retrieval and has turned it into a more mildy W shaped sound leading to a more forward sound than Erlk. Warmth is still there. Just less than Erlk.

The sound on the Phonix comes at you. It is not there for you to go to it like with Erlkonig. Yes there is still intimacy with the Phonix and the mids are still amazing and engaging and there is still the emotional piece. Emotions coming at you that is. The sound is a coherent more forward sound.

With the stretched-out staging and more forward sound, the bass has become more controlled and has more bite to it. With the opened-up stage the sub bass has room to come out and be part of the action. Both the sub and mid bass are more impactful on the Phonix. A lot more impactful.

The sound on the Phonix is more realistic with the amount of detail it gives versus the very musical Erlkonig. I find both to be excellent. I like the timbre of both but the Phonix timbre is more realistic. The Erlkonig sound has a little halo above each note which adds to the appeal of the musicality and enjoyment of the Erkonig.

Here is another way to compare the two. Setting number 3 is my preferred setting with Erlk. The reduced bass with 3 allows the instruments to breath better. It also allows room for the sub bass to come out more when there is this perceived increase in staging with number 3. I could listen to Erlk on number 3 for hours and never get fatigued but still have an emotional attachment to the music and there is still enough detail.

What I am hearing with the Phonix sound is that they took Erlkonig on number 3 and added steriods to the sound from the top to the bottom frequency. That is it in a nutshell.

Both Erlk and Phonix can coexist because they shine at different things. Both are enjoyable for different reasons.

 

[kevin638880]

I wouldn't let my fit issues with EXT concern you, the shell overall is quite small and ergonomically designed. It's my left ear canal has a weird bend to it and that's where I am struggling. I typically also have long listening sessions, if I can't wear something for 4+ hours without discomfort it really bugs me. So I'm definitely an outlier in this situation.

You won't find the Phonix fun then, the insert is deeper than the EXT because of the longer bore...

 

[aaf evo]

You won't find the Phonix fun then, the insert is deeper than the EXT because of the longer bore...

It’s not the insert, it’s the weird shape of the nozzle on the EXT that I struggle with. It’s like a semi CIEM fit that doesn’t really match the shape of my ear. The Phonix design is almost identical to the Erlkonig which fit me very well.

 

[kevin638880]

It’s not the insert, it’s the weird shape of the nozzle on the EXT that I struggle with. It’s like a semi CIEM fit that doesn’t really match the shape of my ear. The Phonix design is almost identical to the Erlkonig which fit me very well.

Ahh I see. That's unfortunate...

For me the Phonix goes pretty deep and I have to find shorter tips to get more comfortable with it.

 

[Deezel177]

Ahh I see. That's unfortunate...

For me the Phonix goes pretty deep and I have to find shorter tips to get more comfortable with it.

It’s the opposite for me. Like @aaf evo, the EXT fits me like a semi-CIEM past the 2nd bend (I think), while the PHoNIX is more of a straight-and-in sorta fit. I wonder if that’s why I’m perceiving a much larger stage, and why I’m not hearing the intimacy a lot of people here have noted. I can hear it from a midrange-forwardness POV. It isn’t distant-sounding at all. But, it’s also an IEM with a massive stage to me, so I wonder if that’s down to ear anatomy and fit, or if I’m just misinterpreting things.

 

[Skullar]

It’s the opposite for me. Like @aaf evo, the EXT fits me like a semi-CIEM past the 2nd bend (I think), while the PHoNIX is more of a straight-and-in sorta fit. I wonder if that’s why I’m perceiving a much larger stage, and why I’m not hearing the intimacy a lot of people here have noted. I can hear it from a midrange-forwardness POV. It isn’t distant-sounding at all. But, it’s also an IEM with a massive stage to me, so I wonder if that’s down to ear anatomy and fit, or if I’m just misinterpreting things.

What i have noticed in general. People find mid forward iems intimate sounding. I suppose that works for lower mids. But if i hear upper mids recessed it just feels like presentation has some layers missing. And loses some vertical staging. But if mids are more balanced and treble is more forward you get a better sense of width.
Im figuring this exact dilemma with Mest MKII and Indigo currently, as they represent exactly those to presentations while having similar excellent staging.

But yeh if Imaging and layering are excelent and soundstage is deep. Even if it has narrow staging. It will still feel spacious.

 

[Deezel177]

What i have noticed in general. People find mid forward iems intimate sounding. I suppose that works for lower mids. But if i hear upper mids recessed it just feels like presentation has some layers missing. And loses some vertical staging. But if mids are more balanced and treble is more forward you get a better sense of width.
Im figuring this exact dilemma with Mest MKII and Indigo currently, as they represent exactly those to presentations while having similar excellent staging.

But yeh if Imaging and layering are excelent and soundstage is deep. Even if it has narrow staging. It will still feel spacious.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. The PHoNIX has tons of space and a (generally) more-forward midrange, so I can see what others mean by intimate in that sense. And, a deeper insert could add to that as well.

 

[gLer]

Like @aaf evo, the EXT fits me like a semi-CIEM past the 2nd bend (I think), while the PHoNIX is more of a straight-and-in sorta fit.

Hmm, again worrying. If it needs to go past the second bend it means the tip is shoved right inside my ear canal, which is something I've never done with any IEM. I generally dislike the feeling of something sitting too far in, and it also causes pressure build up over time. A CIEM is possibly different, because there's no tip and only smooth resin, but if a tip has to go deep in the canal, that just won't work.

If anyone has/had the IE 900 and EXT, can you describe the difference in fit? With the IE 900 the Acoustune tips I use actually go in quite deep, but because the IEM itself is so small, it's mostly tip and not shell or nozzle, which is what causes the pressure with other IEMs.

 

[Deezel177]

Hmm, again worrying. If it needs to go past the second bend it means the tip is shoved right inside my ear canal, which is something I've never done with any IEM. I generally dislike the feeling of something sitting too far in, and it also causes pressure build up over time. A CIEM is possibly different, because there's no tip and only smooth resin, but if a tip has to go deep in the canal, that just won't work.

If anyone has/had the IE 900 and EXT, can you describe the difference in fit? With the IE 900 the Acoustune tips I use actually go in quite deep, but because the IEM itself is so small, it's mostly tip and not shell or nozzle, which is what causes the pressure with other IEMs.

It won’t go as deep as a CIEM. Now that I think about it, it’s at about (or slightly past) the first bend; not the second. Going past the second bend would be even deeper than most customs, so that’s my mistake. If the IE900 fits like most Shure-esque IEMs, which it looks like it does, and you tend to push it all the way in, then I’d say the EXT goes probably about 10-15% deeper, depending on how far you wanna push them in. If you look at the straight nozzle of a Shure or 64 Audio IEM, imagine the nozzle finishes that straight line, then does a slight bend. That’s what the EXT’s is like. They personally fit my ear anatomy very nicely, but that’s very subjective, as always.

 

[Damz87]

Hmm, again worrying. If it needs to go past the second bend it means the tip is shoved right inside my ear canal, which is something I've never done with any IEM. I generally dislike the feeling of something sitting too far in, and it also causes pressure build up over time. A CIEM is possibly different, because there's no tip and only smooth resin, but if a tip has to go deep in the canal, that just won't work.

If anyone has/had the IE 900 and EXT, can you describe the difference in fit? With the IE 900 the Acoustune tips I use actually go in quite deep, but because the IEM itself is so small, it's mostly tip and not shell or nozzle, which is what causes the pressure with other IEMs.

I’m using the same tips on both EXT and IE900 (Acoustune AET07) and for me, EXT’s nozzle goes quite a bit deeper into my ear canal. It does add a little bit of pressure for me but nothing too egregious. It certainly doesn’t disappear into my ear the way IE900 does.

 

[gLer]

I do push the IE 900 right i

It won’t go as deep as a CIEM. Now that I think about it, it’s at about (or slightly past) the first bend; not the second. Going past the second bend would be even deeper than most customs, so that’s my mistake. If the IE900 fits like most Shure-esque IEMs, which it looks like it does, and you tend to push it all the way in, then I’d say the EXT goes probably about 10-15% deeper, depending on how far you wanna push them in. If you look at the straight nozzle of a Shure or 64 Audio IEM, imagine the nozzle finishes that straight line, then does a slight bend. That’s what the EXT’s is like. They personally fit my ear anatomy very nicely, but that’s very subjective, as always.

I do push the IE 900 right in but like I said above the IE 900 is tiny, with a small short nozzle, so it's mostly tip that goes in. With EXT it looks like the tip sits over a very thick/wide nozzle (wider than LX or EVO by the looks of it), and then that entire nozzle section + tip needs to sit right inside the ear. That would - correct me if I'm wrong - give you that 'full ear' feeling, as opposed to just the tip width creating the seal in a shallow insert configuration (a-la LX)? It would also mean those with narrow canals having to use the smallest and thinnest possible tips available? Do you find yourself going down one or two tip sizes with EXT?

 

[gLer]

I’m using the same tips on both EXT and IE900 (Acoustune AET07) and for me, EXT’s nozzle goes quite a bit deeper into my ear canal. It does add a little bit of pressure for me but nothing too egregious. It certainly doesn’t disappear into my ear the way IE900 does.

Quite a bit deeper than IE 900 is eardrum

 

[Damz87]

Quite a bit deeper than IE 900 is eardrum

Haha! It’s hard to comment on fit and insertion depth because it’ll be different for everyone. All I can really say is that EXT fits me well and I am yet to experience any major discomfort. That said, I rarely have fit issues with IEM’s so the usual ymmv disclaimer applies.

 

[Deezel177]

I do push the IE 900 right i

I do push the IE 900 right in but like I said above the IE 900 is tiny, with a small short nozzle, so it's mostly tip that goes in. With EXT it looks like the tip sits over a very thick/wide nozzle (wider than LX or EVO by the looks of it), and then that entire nozzle section + tip needs to sit right inside the ear. That would - correct me if I'm wrong - give you that 'full ear' feeling, as opposed to just the tip width creating the seal in a shallow insert configuration (a-la LX)? It would also mean those with narrow canals having to use the smallest and thinnest possible tips available? Do you find yourself going down one or two tip sizes with EXT?

No, my ear tip size stays the same. That's partly why I mentioned how deep you choose to insert the EXT, because you can insert it fully, such that the tip goes fully into your ear canal, and the "bowl" (or bum) of the EXT sits fully inside your concha. But, you can also pull them out a tad, such that the tip sits about as deep as, say, an LX, and the bowl isn't fully sitting inside your concha. That'll still give you a full seal. So, you can configure it to a degree. But, as @Damz87 said, it obviously won't be as vanishing as an IE900 or a Shure IEM. Compared to an EE universal, I'd say the EXT fits more naturally to me, because it has bends that follow my ear canal, while EE's nozzles tend to be more straight-on, which I'd have to finagle to get a proper seal.

 

[Skullar]

Hmm, again worrying. If it needs to go past the second bend it means the tip is shoved right inside my ear canal, which is something I've never done with any IEM.

Ive heard only the first time hurts.

Honestly while most of time its fairly consistent. Some iems just sit right no matter how deep they go. It will all depend on nozzle thickness and angle alignment in relation to your ear anatomy.