[Pharmaboy]

  I'm using the Z1R with Cavalli Liquid Carbon now and it is possibly slightly too dark for some occasion, I want to increase the mids a bit in volume and forwardness.
This is also due to the Z1R being super accurate with room acoustics(some vocal seems a bit far at times, and sometimes it is alright, I like intimate vocals)
 
I heard that the V280 is neutral but has a little bit of warm in it, can anybody who has both the LC and V280/V281 make a comparison especially in tonality department?
 
The DAC will be chord Mojo, but I'll definitely upgrade in the future, I just decided that I want to upgrade my amp first.
 
I also need to buy balanced cable if I go this way I guess (Norne Draug 2C comes to mind, silver cable is just too expensive for me).
 
Thanks a lot.

 
I have the LC (nearly finished 150 hrs burn-in); also the V281; but not the Z1R. I've listened to various HPs on each (ZMF Ori/balanced; Fidelio X2's & Marantz MPH-2's/SE). I am still learning about each amp, but so far have had fascinating experiences:
 
Liquid Carbon

1. It's a tiny little box. It runs quite hot. It's kind of handsome, but nothing about it inspires great confidence. It sure doesn't look powerful...
2. But it IS powerful. It drives the ZMF Ori like a big dog on a steel leash. I was really shocked how much power comes out, even on the low gain setting (I see no need for high gain switch here).
3. It sounds flat-out amazing balanced: big/wide/spacious soundstage; very deep & hard-hitting bass (another big surprise from this little box); and a roundness & "purity" to notes that is very pleasing.
4. It also sounds crazy good SE, which I had no expectation of. I had a mind-blowing experience listening to the X2's off the LC the other night, single-ended.
5. The X2's illustrate a weird but wonderful thing about the LC: you would think, "Well, this warm, bassy, expansive LC must sound like crap w/a warm, bassy, expansive headphone"--and you'd be wrong. It sounds amazing with headphones like that. Just amazing.
6. However, the LC is definitely not a "treble cannon" amp. It's does treble in a way I find quite luscious/satisfying, but if you seek an amp that gives forensic detail, bright arc-light revealing of tiny little sounds in every recording, etc...well, you'll be disappointed.

 
Violectric V281:

1. This is not a little box. It runs only mildly warm. It has just about every feature & control one could ask for (mine has the 128-step volume pot w/remote). It's a big, confident, utterly self-assured piece of audio gear: competent, composed, limitless power. There is nothing the V281 cannot do at least very well, and a few things it does spectacularly well.
2. Power: insane. I wouldn't dream of using higher gain (I don't want to be deaf), even on my power-hog ZMF Ori. I can't imagine a pair of headphones that wouldn't be driven to complete satisfaction by this beat.
3. Dynamics: extreme. No kidding...I've never heard notes jump out of headphones & speakers like they do w/the V281. I'd be afraid to play Tchaikovsky's 1812 overature w/the big cannon blast...I'd probably get a concussion & face sheet-rock repairs in the office.
4. Bass: State-of-the-art. The bass on the V281 goes all to the center of the earth. It reveals all the subtle tonal/timbral shadings of bass instruments. I keep hearing low frequency qualities w/the V281 that I'm not expecting, and I don't mean in some dry/forensive manner (edgy). It's 100% relaxed while it gives you a bass thumping.
5. Warm vs neutral: The V281 is my 2nd Violectric amp (the other is the very fine SE Lake People G109-A). I wouldn't call either one truly "warm" ...they don't sugar-coat,  filter, or sweeten music to any real degree. However, both are fully capable of relaying the bigness/thickness/impact of lower midrange & bass, whatever's in the recording--sounding just like music IRL (some amps won't do this); and the do treble in a very relaxed, real-sounding way, with plenty of detail but no brightness. Rather than "warm," I consider both amps relaxed, spacious, & big-sounding. Not treble-cannons at all.
6. Soundstaging: It's just amazing on the V281, best w/balanced output, but also wonderful w/SE. I know tube amps have a 3D quality SS don't, but IMO this is about as good as SS gets for soundstaging and rendition of space. The V281 is tied w/another great SS amp, the Audio GD SA-31SE, for best soundstaging & "space around notes." Actually, the SA-31SE is even better w/subtle percussion & spatial cues, but doesn't have the towering bass & powerful/relaxed quality of the V281.
7. Pre-amp: another huge surprise. I have 3 headphone amps that are also preamps (V281; SA-31SE; M Stage HPA-1), and just sold a 4th, the Burson Soloist. I thought I knew what my powered speakers (Swan M200 MKIII's) + sub (SVS SB-1000) sounded like--but then I plugged in the V281 as a system preamp and REALLY heard this setup. Amazing. Easily the best bass I've ever heard on the desktop...I had no idea where was so much energy in the upper bass/lower midrange on some of my recordings. And again, soundstaging; utter/total confidence in tonal/timbral rendition of music.

 
At this point, I can't imagine ever not having the LC or the V281...

 

[Gondwana]

Hey guys,
 
So how much in Mw in total does this amp puts out in a 32 ohm load running balanced ?
 
I saw 2800 MW, so is this per channel ? x2 ? so 5600 MW total ? Or X4 because its balanced ?

 

[emptymt]

   
I have the LC (nearly finished 150 hrs burn-in); also the V281; but not the Z1R. I've listened to various HPs on each (ZMF Ori/balanced; Fidelio X2's & Marantz MPH-2's/SE). I am still learning about each amp, but so far have had fascinating experiences:
 
Liquid Carbon

1. It's a tiny little box. It runs quite hot. It's kind of handsome, but nothing about it inspires great confidence. It sure doesn't look powerful...
2. But it IS powerful. It drives the ZMF Ori like a big dog on a steel leash. I was really shocked how much power comes out, even on the low gain setting (I see no need for high gain switch here).
3. It sounds flat-out amazing balanced: big/wide/spacious soundstage; very deep & hard-hitting bass (another big surprise from this little box); and a roundness & "purity" to notes that is very pleasing.
4. It also sounds crazy good SE, which I had no expectation of. I had a mind-blowing experience listening to the X2's off the LC the other night, single-ended.
5. The X2's illustrate a weird but wonderful thing about the LC: you would think, "Well, this warm, bassy, expansive LC must sound like crap w/a warm, bassy, expansive headphone"--and you'd be wrong. It sounds amazing with headphones like that. Just amazing.
6. However, the LC is definitely not a "treble cannon" amp. It's does treble in a way I find quite luscious/satisfying, but if you seek an amp that gives forensic detail, bright arc-light revealing of tiny little sounds in every recording, etc...well, you'll be disappointed.

 
Violectric V281:

1. This is not a little box. It runs only mildly warm. It has just about every feature & control one could ask for (mine has the 128-step volume pot w/remote). It's a big, confident, utterly self-assured piece of audio gear: competent, composed, limitless power. There is nothing the V281 cannot do at least very well, and a few things it does spectacularly well.
2. Power: insane. I wouldn't dream of using higher gain (I don't want to be deaf), even on my power-hog ZMF Ori. I can't imagine a pair of headphones that wouldn't be driven to complete satisfaction by this beat.
3. Dynamics: extreme. No kidding...I've never heard notes jump out of headphones & speakers like they do w/the V281. I'd be afraid to play Tchaikovsky's 1812 overature w/the big cannon blast...I'd probably get a concussion & face sheet-rock repairs in the office.
4. Bass: State-of-the-art. The bass on the V281 goes all to the center of the earth. It reveals all the subtle tonal/timbral shadings of bass instruments. I keep hearing low frequency qualities w/the V281 that I'm not expecting, and I don't mean in some dry/forensive manner (edgy). It's 100% relaxed while it gives you a bass thumping.
5. Warm vs neutral: The V281 is my 2nd Violectric amp (the other is the very fine SE Lake People G109-A). I wouldn't call either one truly "warm" ...they don't sugar-coat,  filter, or sweeten music to any real degree. However, both are fully capable of relaying the bigness/thickness/impact of lower midrange & bass, whatever's in the recording--sounding just like music IRL (some amps won't do this); and the do treble in a very relaxed, real-sounding way, with plenty of detail but no brightness. Rather than "warm," I consider both amps relaxed, spacious, & big-sounding. Not treble-cannons at all.
6. Soundstaging: It's just amazing on the V281, best w/balanced output, but also wonderful w/SE. I know tube amps have a 3D quality SS don't, but IMO this is about as good as SS gets for soundstaging and rendition of space. The V281 is tied w/another great SS amp, the Audio GD SA-31SE, for best soundstaging & "space around notes." Actually, the SA-31SE is even better w/subtle percussion & spatial cues, but doesn't have the towering bass & powerful/relaxed quality of the V281.
7. Pre-amp: another huge surprise. I have 3 headphone amps that are also preamps (V281; SA-31SE; M Stage HPA-1), and just sold a 4th, the Burson Soloist. I thought I knew what my powered speakers (Swan M200 MKIII's) + sub (SVS SB-1000) sounded like--but then I plugged in the V281 as a system preamp and REALLY heard this setup. Amazing. Easily the best bass I've ever heard on the desktop...I had no idea where was so much energy in the upper bass/lower midrange on some of my recordings. And again, soundstaging; utter/total confidence in tonal/timbral rendition of music.

 
At this point, I can't imagine ever not having the LC or the V281...

Thx a lot for the comparison man, from what you say, The LC sugar coat but the V281, bit bpth has warm in it but LC more so.
Is the difference in warmthness something you would call a big difference?
 
I might actually get a balance XLR cable/adapter first before going into a store to try the v280/1.

 

[Pharmaboy]

 
Thx a lot for the comparison man, from what you say, The LC sugar coat but the V281, bit bpth has warm in it but LC more so.
Is the difference in warmthness something you would call a big difference?
 
I might actually get a balance XLR cable/adapter first before going into a store to try the v280/1.

 
The difference in warmth is significant, not so much in degree (ie, LC super-warm vs V281 slightly-warm), but in quality top-to-bottom: these 2 amps don't sound all that much alike, and they react differently to different headphones.
 
The warmth in the LC is global--all frequencies--but IMO is not excessive at all. Instead, it sound luminous, dramatic...beautiful (to use an emotionally charged word). Notes swell up & decay much like tube amps, but then there's that terrific bass (you wouldn't get that kind of bass from a tube amp). It's a somewhat "wet" sound overall, certainly not dry & clinical. Maybe others here would hate the LC's sonic approach, but I really like it.
 
In the V281, that little bit of warmth is just one ingredient (though a very welcome one) in the overall sound quality, which is full, clear, black background, hard hitting in lower midrange + entire bass range, extremely dynamic, great treble--but zero brightness. The V281 is slightly "warm" ("friendly" sounding) in the sense that it could blow your brains out if it wanted--but it never does. It all pulls together in a very suave, persuasive sound concept.
 
IMO there's more to all this than "warm" vs "neutral." The "warmth" of the LC definitely doesn't function as a "filter" that lays on top of every note, making it sound one way/one way only. The surprising synergy between the LC & the Fidelio X2's really has me trying to figure this out.
 
A review of the LC by a really talented reviewer, @Aornic, discussed the LC taking what's good about a warm pair of headphones (in his case, the warm, bassy, "friendly" ZMF Omni) and making sound it even better. That's surprising because you'd expect an additive effect (warm/bassy/friendly amp + warm/bassy/friendly HP  = maple syrup)--but instead, you get terrific synergy. The LC does this over & over w/different headphones. I haven't quite figured it out yet.
 
If you can get a balanced cable, that's the ideal way to audition the V281. It's really good SE, but it's crazy good balanced.

 

[zhgutov]

  Hey guys,
 
So how much in Mw in total does this amp puts out in a 32 ohm load running balanced ?
 
I saw 2800 MW, so is this per channel ? x2 ? so 5600 MW total ? Or X4 because its balanced ?

It is ~1300 mW per channel @ 32 Ohm until clipping. At this level the signal is clean.
Look here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php#rw13
 
It is not so much more than in SE mode for low impedances, but in balanced mode it has less distortion.
Looks like the current limiter.

 

[Pharmaboy]

 
It is ~1300 mW per channel @ 32 Ohm until clipping. At this level the signal is clean.
Look here: http://reference-audio-analyzer.pro/en/report/amp/violectric-hpa-v281-balance.php#rw13
 
It is not so much more than in SE mode for low impedances, but in balanced mode it has less distortion.
Looks like the current limiter.

 
That sounds right. Violectric USA's website quotes max output = 2,800 mW @32 ohms, both channels driven (balanced output).
 
Here's something interesting:

1. The Violectric feels like it has limitless power, balanced, into 32 ohm headphone (ZMF Omni/Ori, a planar that likes power). Even at the lowest possible gain setting, I can't get the volume pot near 12 o'clock w/o going deaf [DAC is Audio GD NOS 19/RCA output, stated to be 2.5V, which is average/not excessive].
2. By comparison, the Audio GD SA-31SE amp (single-ended) outputs 10 mW @40 ohms (no spec given for output @32 ohms). That should feel/sound much bigger/stronger than the V281, but it doesn't. To me, the V281 sounds/acts more powerful. Sure there are differences in gain stages/settings available--but I'm using minimum gain w/both amps and the same DAC.

 
(still trying to figure out the whole power specs thing w/headphones)

 

[zhgutov]

   
That sounds right. Violectric USA's website quotes max output = 2,800 mW @32 ohms, both channels driven (balanced output).
 
Here's something interesting:

1. The Violectric feels like it has limitless power, balanced, into 32 ohm headphone (ZMF Omni/Ori, a planar that likes power). Even at the lowest possible gain setting, I can't get the volume pot near 12 o'clock w/o going deaf [DAC is Audio GD NOS 19/RCA output, stated to be 2.5V, which is average/not excessive].
2. By comparison, the Audio GD SA-31SE amp (single-ended) outputs 10 mW @40 ohms (no spec given for output @32 ohms). That should feel/sound much bigger/stronger than the V281, but it doesn't. To me, the V281 sounds/acts more powerful. Sure there are differences in gain stages/settings available--but I'm using minimum gain w/both amps and the same DAC.

 
(still trying to figure out the whole power specs thing w/headphones)

Yes, I think this specs need some additional clarification.
 
I suppose, 2800 mW @ 32 Ohm are specified by Violectric for each channel.
And there is condition: THD+N < 0.1%. So, looks like this is true.
 
But there are some things to consider.
If you just have 0.1% THD with, for example, second and third harmonics, this may sound good.
But if you have even small clipping you will not like such sound.
So, 1300 mW looks like the real, usable power.
 
On the other hand, this is already too much power.
And if you look at the distortion figures, you will notice that this amp has very low distortion even at high power.
So, this limit is not the limit in practice =)
Probably this limitation is caused by the protection circuit.
 
Another important thing is how low the distortion can be at the high output level.
Look at this:

 
THD under the load goes down to 0.0002%, which is DAC level.
And the distortion for the complex signal looks similar.
I can not find another amp with the similar properties.
 
I think the reason why this amp is so good and transparent to the source is at least somewhere in this area.

 

[Fegefeuer]

it's why you gotta make sure your chain is up to the task
.
I recommend avoiding USB into DACs and going in either via a converter/reclocker into coax, from a CD transport into coax or building your own transport through Raspberry Pi. You might not want to put belief in this, but you might try it and then see for yourself. High end DACs profit as well and even more. Avoiding USB is now my fetish.

 

[manpowre]

 
I might actually get a balance XLR cable/adapter first before going into a store to try the v280/1.

Smart move going for XLR4 and get used to the increased dynamics with XLR4 before going for a V281, as the XLR4 output of V281 vs the big jackplugs is a wow experience. 
 
I do actually love to listen to the 1812 Overture though I chose the Moscow version with Valery Gergiev which has amazing soundquality of the recording with fireworks instead of the canons and it slams like crazy every time.
When I listen to the track that is about 15 minutes long, I close my eyes as its amazing being transported to the orchestra standing straight in front of them. The brass section of the Moscow version is amazing, it really really makes a brawl, just the way I remember it when I played in orchestra 30 years ago as a lead trumpeist. The dynamics of V281 really gets this track to its full potential.

 

[Pharmaboy]

it's why you gotta make sure your chain is up to the task
.
I recommend avoiding USB into DACs and going in either via a converter/reclocker into coax, from a CD transport into coax or building your own transport through Raspberry Pi. You might not want to put belief in this, but you might try it and then see for yourself. High end DACs profit as well and even more. Avoiding USB is now my fetish.

 
Your 2nd paragraph is pure truth...
 
I started using an S/PDIF converter ~10 years ago and found that toslink (used briefly) then most of all, coax input to the DAC simply sounded better than USB. This held true across 3 different DACs. I should say that USB sounded marginally better on 1-2 DACs compared to on a 3rd, but coax always sounded better than USB. I've upgraded my converter to the Musical Fidelity V192 Link (soon to upgrade to Singxer SU-1); and coax cable to Oyaide R-510 (not cheap, but really fine-sounding). Nothing changed except that coax sounds even better--more relaxed, smoother, less digital.
 
When I got my Audio GD NOS 19 DAC, I went through the usual Audio GD driver-tango (can't find it on AGD website...where's the GD driver?...found it on Amenero website...installed...works OK). Then I connected the Oyaide cable and switched from USB to Coax (these DACs let you switch inputs from front-panel). Well, OK--coax wins once again.
 
Interesting side-note about the V281 vs my NOS 19:

1. I'd read that non-oversampling R2 D DACs aren't for everyone...treble is restrained, if not rolled off; bass is "wetter," more rounded, etc (sometimes at cost of ultimate extension), blah-blah-blah.
2. It's all true--sort of/maybe/a little bit--but once this DAC burned in (took forever...>400 hrs!), I no longer cared because it sounded so natural & organic.
3. BUT--the V281, which IMHO is the audio equivalent of "The Hammer of Thor" (it brings immense power/finesse to every situation) may be showing me, for the first time, how the NOS 19 actually sounds, both through headphones & powered speakers + sub. That is to say, I've tried over 5 HP amps, 4 of which were also pre-amps, and the V281 is the first one that allowed me to hear that either my particular powered monitors (Swan M200 MKIII's) or my NOS 19 is somewhat muted on the very top. I'm highly averse to elevated treble, so "somewhat muted on the very top" is hardly a problem for me. But it wasn't until I used the V281 that I could perceive that.
4. On the other hand, the entire bass spectrum, up through lower midrange, is state-of-the-art through the V281 (HP amp & preamp functions). I've never heard such deep, impactful, powerful bass on my desktop.

 
The V281 is a continuing source of amazement to me...I'm not even close to "taking its full measure."

 

[mulder01]

alright, thx man.
I may need to call them first to see if they have an xlr terminated Z1R cable so that I can try it on in balanced mode.

 


Well, I am pretty sure they don't have the v281 anymore - it looks like they are phasing out Violectric. But I doubt it matters - every time I've gone into a hifi shop with a solid idea in my head of what I want, but just have the intention of having a quick listen before I buy, I have ended up walking out of there with something I never expected, and feeling glad I didn't buy what I was going to.

I'm not saying not to get a v281, but if you can listen to a bunch of amps, you can be 100% sure you've bought the one that suits your situation best.

 

[emptymt]

thx for all the help people.
I'm gonna get XLR cable first and use the balance on the LC first before I decide if I really need to upgrade to v280/1.
 
gotta stop spending money, LOL.

 

[manpowre]

It seems that 2017 will get some products that is going after the Amp need for heavy-to-drive headphones like LCD4, Abyss, etc.. The Amp Cavali Liquid Gold. What interest me vs the V281 is that if a IEM is plugged in to the amp, it hits the noise floor. I tried this on my V281 and didnt hear the noise floor. I guess this is because there is 2 amps missing from the big jackplug on V281 that helps for easyer to drive headphones.
 
Offcourse I would love to review and hear the Cavali Liquid Gold. For 6500 dollars ? Im keeping my V281.

 

[Arniesb]

It seems that 2017 will get some products that is going after the Amp need for heavy-to-drive headphones like LCD4, Abyss, etc.. The Amp Cavali Liquid Gold. What interest me vs the V281 is that if a IEM is plugged in to the amp, it hits the noise floor. I tried this on my V281 and didnt hear the noise floor. I guess this is because there is 2 amps missing from the big jackplug on V281 that helps for easyer to drive headphones.

Offcourse I would love to review and hear the Cavali Liquid Gold. For 6500 dollars ? Im keeping my V281.

Cavali brand is super overpriced in my opinion. They offer nothing more than V281 or head amp gsx 2 solid state from what i read.

 

[manpowre]

Cavali brand is super overpriced in my opinion. They offer nothing more than V281 or head amp gsx 2 solid state from what i read.

totally agree with that statement.