Re: "I'm sure purists would describe that smoothness as degradation of the audio signal" -- why would you say that. I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope here...putting the V281 uber-amp on the output of the Hugo's DAC is a classic way to build in something good to get something even better.
It takes a lot of well-chosen electronic components, design time, and quality construction to get that smoothness you mention.
If that smoothness is degradation, I'm enjoying the hell out of the degradation I get from my V281...
Well, that's kind of the idea behind the Hugo 2 headphone output, right? You're getting the most purest signal directly from the DAC. According to Rob Watts, any amplification after that only degrades the audio signal and takes away from the transparency. I agree with you that it can be enjoyable, especially with lesser quality source material.
The Chinese no doubt can do a fantastic job of cloning something and making it look alike. The problem is the use of cheap parts and longevity. Is it worth $1,000 if it only lasts a couple years and has no resale value?
I have nothing against Chinese products as I also represent Matrix audio who makes fantastic gear. But how can you have any respect for a company like 'Inaccurate Audio' that just blatantly rips something off. It's one thing to copy someone else's circuit design but then to go to the extent of making it cosmetically look like the original, it's just deplorable.
Well, that's kind of the idea behind the Hugo 2 headphone output, right? You're getting the most purest signal directly from the DAC. According to Rob Watts, any amplification after that only degrades the audio signal and takes away from the transparency. I agree with you that it can be enjoyable, especially with lesser quality source material.
The idea behind the Hugo 2's headphone output is the same as with any well-designed & executed combination unit (DAC+HP amp): that ideal/optimized interface & matching between the DAC & HP amp in this unit will result in optimal sound.
But that doesn't mean one can't better the output of the Hugo's HP amp. And despite Rob's comments, it does not mean that alternate uses of his product diminish transparency. Sorry, but that's too global, pre-emptive, and conclusory a statement. It doesn't make sense on logical grounds, and I don't think it's born out by experiments w/alterative equipment groupings.
By doing something like route the Hugo's DAC output to the input of an endgame HP amp like the V281, one trades that ideal/optimized interface (now the interface is an RCA interconnect cable, a variable unto itself): but the amp part (the V281 should be at least as good as the Hugo's amp...maybe better.
I've heard the Chord Hugo; also the Chord TT. Both were good in their own ways. But I much prefer having multiple high-level DACs and HP amps to mix & match. The results range from "nice" to "wow!"
I owned the Hugo2 and V281 at one point. The gain stage in the Hugo 2 is not a separate discrete module that can be bypassed but is integral by intent. So in essence you are double amplifying the signal when you pair it with an external amp. The H2 sounds cleanest when used without additional amplification. Having said that, if you like what you hear from the H2 and the V281, that's all matters and enjoy the music
They copied the look alright. But I'm willing to bet the similarity ends there and it sounds nowhere close to the real thing. The V281 is one of the nicest SS amps and you get the best customer service from Arthur.
...I meant that in the manner of other combo units, where the output of the DAC can be routed to an external headphone amp, rather than having the built-in amp in the combo unit do the honors.
If' I'd said "audio signal" instead of "digital," it would have made more sense (sorry)
They copied the look alright. But I'm willing to bet the similarity ends there and it sounds nowhere close to the real thing. The V281 is one of the nicest SS amps and you get the best customer service from Arthur.
For the sake of being provocative, how do we know this knockoff sucks (i don't know/understand enough about the internals of both)? Sadly, someone could reverse engineer a product at a much lower price point - just look at the PCB, look at the parts, and duplicate without all the R&D and overhead of a larger company. I'm not saying that the V281 isn't worth it...quite the contrary...I spent my hard earned dollars to buy one last year and have found it easily worth it, but it doesn't mean someone couldn't make a decent knockoff in China at a much lower price.
For the sake of being provocative, how do we know this knockoff sucks (i don't know/understand enough about the internals of both)? Sadly, someone could reverse engineer a product at a much lower price point - just look at the PCB, look at the parts, and duplicate without all the R&D and overhead of a larger company. I'm not saying that the V281 isn't worth it...quite the contrary...I spent my hard earned dollars to buy one last year and have found it easily worth it, but it doesn't mean someone couldn't make a decent knockoff in China at a much lower price.
Personally, I am willing to agree that everything is possible in theory, and that someone could make a "knock off" that is as good as the original, or even better... but only in theory...
It is, however, an entirely different question whether I'd be willing to invest my "hard earned dollars" (to use your expression, and $999 of them, in this particular case) in such a product, sight unseen, and without any reliable warranty, or any guarantee that I'd get my money back if the unit turns out to be inferior (which to be frank, most knock-offs often are)... Will you do that if you can afford the "genuine article"? Personally, I'd rather place my bet on the real thing, even if I have to buy one from the used market.
Case in point : I'm staying away from Massdrop's Gustard H20 right now, because I learnt that it does not come with any warranty, even though there is a lot I admired about it when it was first announced. I may need another V281-like amp for a second system in the near future, and the Gustard's specs and features seem to check all the right boxes, apart from being much cheaper than the V281, but I have not been able to bring myself to get it, because of this uncertainty about "knock-offs" and lack of a warranty... YMMV
Firstly I would not spend money on an unethically produced product. But that's me. If I just look at the rational side of it, $999 is still a significant amount of money to pay for something you have not heard, has no reviews/reputation, questionable warranty. Violectric amps carry a 5 year warranty and I dont know of another amp manufacturer that offers that.
Those who buy something like this support such behaviour.
This chinese guys cannot develop it's own good equipment.
They can only copy something with the questionable result.
But the real guys get less support instead.
I think they should get that support to be able to develop something new, at least.
Personally, I would not buy such clones.
But actually, this is a good sign when you have a clones.
This can tell something good about the original devices.
I agree. Better wait on used (or new) deals if you don't want to splash out so much cash. Those 1000 dollars for a knockoff could go right down the toilet in a matter of a very short amount of time. Violectric's service doesn't end with the warranty, they'll help you out years after it. That stuff also costs money and storage (spare parts etc.)
Let's continue to discuss the V281 though.
Anyone else excited about the High End 2018 show in Munich?
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