[Fontaine]

Lots to mess wit hand figure out but I will get there soon and do some comparisons.

Oh yes, I bet you have many hours of happy listening ahead
Just wanted to ask you to do a comparison that I'm particularly interested in, whenever you have time. I'd like to hear your impressions on these two options:
1). RME ADI-2 fs (as a DAC) + SPL Phonitor XE (as an amp) + the brightest headphones you have at hand
2). RME ADI-2 fs + Violectric V590 + the same headphones

I'm trying to figure out which of the two amplifiers - V590 or Phonitor XE - will be a better pairing for bright and analytical headphones. I actually have HD800 which are notoriously bright, so it's not easy to decide on the amp. You may not have HD800, but I guess any headphones that are on the brighter side in your collection, should be good enough for this comparison.

I remember lots of people compared Phonitor Xe vs Violectric V281 a while ago and most of the folks would end up saying V281 had a warmer, more tubey flavor. Now that the V281 is in the past and with V590 being supposedly a bit more neutral, I assume Phonitor and the V590 should offer a very similar sound signature. So, that's quite an interesting comparison to do.

I think classical, jazz and vocal recordings would be more indicative, but it's totally up to you of course

 

[AnimalOnDrums]

Apologies for keeping anyone waiting, but I'll just say that there was a mix up with UPS and my original shipment. Ironically, I was the first person to place a pre-order for this unit. I want to mention that Arthur from Power-Holdings-Inc, who everyone already knows is awesome, was really helpful and just amazing to work with through this frustrating ordeal with UPS. I also want to mention that I am in no way bashing on the hard working UPS drivers, nor placing blame on them for the delay in me getting my V590. I know that the drivers are and have been overloaded and overworked and I appreciate their continued efforts during COVID-19.

Ok, moving on. Because of the late arrival of my V590, my timeline got screwed up. I had to give back the LCD-4 I was borrowing, but I'll try to get them back or find an Abyss Diana Phi to borrow.

@Fontaine Unfortunately I do not have the RME ADI-2 DAC anymore. I kept the Benchmark DAC3L since I like it better. I have been doing comparisons using the Benchmark DAC3L as a DAC to the v590 and the Phonitor XE. The brightest headphones I have right now are the Utopias. Neither as bright as the HD800 though

As amplifiers alone they sounded pretty similar when using the Benchmark DAC3L, as you guessed. The main differences (which aren't huge, but are noticeable) are the that the V590 has a warmer sound signature and the vocal soundstage is a little more forward on the Phonitor. The lower end and lower midrange of the V590 is a little fuller and has a little bit more body, which I think is part of what contributes to the warmer sound signature of the V590. Both amps are very detailed but I feel instrument separation and imaging is more pronounced on the V590 giving it a more holographic effect, while the SPL is a more focused sound. This was most noticeable on older recordings (like Jimi Hendrix) where the instruments are more panned to the left and right, and going down the "New Jazz" playlist in Qobuz. When switching to the LCD-3 or the Empyrean from the Utopias, the warmer sound signature was a little more noticeable.

I haven't done a comparison where I run the DACs of the V590 and the SPL Phonitor XE through the Benchmark HPA 4 yet, but I will soon.

 

[Fontaine]

Nice! Thanks, @AnimalOnDrums. Appreciate the detailed answer.

 

[DarginMahkum]

A comparison between the V590 and the T+A HA200 would be awesome. I am really interested in it. It seems like it would be, or is, an amazing product. I love the meters on that thing (makes my ADHD happy) along with the matching colored display. It is obviously going for a more polished look than the industrial style of the Vioelectric V590 and I love both. It will be really interesting to hear how similar or different they sound.

Unfortunately, I didn't do a comparison between the two, as after I tried the HA200, I directly went ahead and ordered it, and have been enjoying it a lot for about a week. Maybe for some it would sound strange to order something without going through the usual "audiophile process", but I just didn't feel the need to. Due to the lowest output impedance of 8 ohms HA200 may not be the best match for IEMs, so if you are after driving your <10 ohms, multi BA, hybrid IEM with it, I would suggest to consider something else like US4 or V590, otherwise it is extremely good.

 

[Thraex]

@Fontaine Unfortunately I do not have the RME ADI-2 DAC anymore. I kept the Benchmark DAC3L since I like it better. I have been doing comparisons using the Benchmark DAC3L as a DAC to the v590 and the Phonitor XE. The brightest headphones I have right now are the Utopias. Neither as bright as the HD800 though

As amplifiers alone they sounded pretty similar when using the Benchmark DAC3L, as you guessed. The main differences (which aren't huge, but are noticeable) are the that the V590 has a warmer sound signature and the vocal soundstage is a little more forward on the Phonitor. The lower end and lower midrange of the V590 is a little fuller and has a little bit more body, which I think is part of what contributes to the warmer sound signature of the V590. Both amps are very detailed but I feel instrument separation and imaging is more pronounced on the V590 giving it a more holographic effect, while the SPL is a more focused sound. This was most noticeable on older recordings (like Jimi Hendrix) where the instruments are more panned to the left and right, and going down the "New Jazz" playlist in Qobuz. When switching to the LCD-3 or the Empyrean from the Utopias, the warmer sound signature was a little more noticeable.

I haven't done a comparison where I run the DACs of the V590 and the SPL Phonitor XE through the Benchmark HPA 4 yet, but I will soon.

Hi @AnimalOnDrums I'd like to know if you've done some more testing comparison between Phonitor X vs V590 after more time with them, it'll be also extremely interesting to know V590 internal DAC vs external DAC3L.
Let us know THKS!

 

[AnimalOnDrums]

Unfortunately, I didn't do a comparison between the two, as after I tried the HA200, I directly went ahead and ordered it, and have been enjoying it a lot for about a week. Maybe for some it would sound strange to order something without going through the usual "audiophile process", but I just didn't feel the need to. Due to the lowest output impedance of 8 ohms HA200 may not be the best match for IEMs, so if you are after driving your <10 ohms, multi BA, hybrid IEM with it, I would suggest to consider something else like US4 or V590, otherwise it is extremely good.

Ha ha that's awesome! I don't think it is strange as I have done the same thing. I didn't know about the 8 ohm output impedance though, so that is good to know beforehand. I am sure it is amazing and I hope you enjoy it!

Hi @AnimalOnDrums I'd like to know if you've done some more testing comparison between Phonitor X vs V590 after more time with them, it'll be also extremely interesting to know V590 internal DAC vs external DAC3L.
Let us know THKS!

TL;DR: The V590 is warmer sounding and more holographic than the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE.

Yes, I have done a lot of playing around and mixing and matching. As you can probably tell, I am not the best at taking what I hear and describing it with the proper vocabulary, but I will try my best. The DAC section of the V590 has definitely opened up a bit more since first listening to it. Nothing too major but it sounds like it has settled into its groove and the mids and highs have bloomed a bit. Before I go into details, it is important to know that I think the Benchmark DAC3L with the HPA4, along with the Phonitor XE are absolutely wonderful and the differences I am trying to describe are not major (unless noted) and are not necessarily better or worse, just different. The V590 DAC is detailed and rich. It is a little bit on the warm side of neutral with a thicker sound that the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE. The DAC from the Phonitor XE and the DAC3L sound more similar than either of them do to the V590. The V590 is also not quite as bright as the Phonitor XE or the DAC 3L and has a bit more lower midrange tonality to it, which makes it sound not as analytical as the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE. It is still very detailed and transparent though. The soundstage and imaging qualities that I mentioned in my last post definitely come from the DAC portion of the V590 and carry over when using the Benchmark HPA4 as an amp, so it has a bit wider soundstage than the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE. The DAC3L is more forward sounding, especially with vocals, and the Phonitor XE sits between the DAC3L and the V590 in this context. I would say that the V590 has the most holographic sound though with the vocals being not as forward or centered in comparison to the DAC3L. Routing the V590's DAC through the Phonitor XE's amp gives it a little bit more liveliness compared to running it through the HPA4 or the V590s own AMP, but not by much. You can still get a sense of the V590's holographic sound, but it is not as pronounced as when using the V590s own amp. At this level, all of the amps are powerful, clean and have great volume controls. I hear the differences between the DACs a lot more than I do the differences between the amps. One advantage of the V590s DAC is that it has selectable upsampling. It does both PCM and DSD (not DoP, which the DAC3L uses) but I have only used the PCM settings since I don't use DSD that much. It gives you the option of x1, x2, and x4 upsampling in combination with selectable filter curves. While the differences are pretty small, you can absolutely hear them. They are more pronounced on the V590 DAC than on my Cayin DAC which uses an ESS 9028pro. The DAC3L also uses the 9028pro chip but does not let you select the sampling rates or the filters. The filters don't so much act like an EQ (since they work in the region above our hearing), but they change the "airiness" and the spatial orientation of what you are hearing. For example: the 2x sampling rate will sometimes sound slightly brighter than the 1x or no resampling. Changing filters may bring the drum cymbals a tiny bit forward or have the vocals be a tiny bit less prominent. I hope I explained that in a way everyone can understand. If I had to pick one set up it would be the V590 simply because I enjoy the warmer and buttery sound. As a unit the V590 has more bass than either of the other setups and I really like the holographic sound it gives. When I close my eyes while listening on the V590 I feel like I am more immersed in the sound, like I am floating there and the music is not coming from a direction, it is just there. These are probably the two biggest differences between the V590, and the Benchmark DAC3L and Phonitor XE. This one is definitely a keeper. Ok, that's all I got for now, thanks for reading!

 

[Thraex]

TL;DR: The V590 is warmer sounding and more holographic than the DAC3L or the Phonitor XE.

Thank you @AnimalOnDrums , I'm esitant to pull the trigger for V590 DAC/Amp combo, before I've still a couple of questions regarding its warm sound signature using headphones like Audeze LCD-3 and the feeling and audibility of its stepped attenuator.

Your feeling of warmer sound to both DAC and amp portion of V590 compared to other combinations scared me that with LCD-3 could be too much.
Since I favor also rythm and speed I've found the good old V281 sometimes to be a little too warm with LCD-3, loosing precision/details in some fast passages, overall it's pleasing and punchy and not always a limit, but that combination could be bettered on some fast paced tracks.
You point the warmer sound signature is more on the DAC portion, do you think it's better to wait for the upcoming Violectric no DAC version using LCD-3?
Does speed improve with Phonitor XE vs V590 amp only portion or is the same?

Regarding the stepped attenuators I always disliked the audibility/feeling of them: phisycally feel the steps turning the knob, hearing their clicks inside headphones while listening to music and even the not continuos fine adjustment of volume (sometime a tiny bit bring all in focus).
Could you describe the V590 stepped volume control feeling and useability in more detail?

Thank you very much to share your experience with us!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Oh yes, I bet you have many hours of happy listening ahead
Just wanted to ask you to do a comparison that I'm particularly interested in, whenever you have time. I'd like to hear your impressions on these two options:
1). RME ADI-2 fs (as a DAC) + SPL Phonitor XE (as an amp) + the brightest headphones you have at hand
2). RME ADI-2 fs + Violectric V590 + the same headphones

I'm trying to figure out which of the two amplifiers - V590 or Phonitor XE - will be a better pairing for bright and analytical headphones. I actually have HD800 which are notoriously bright, so it's not easy to decide on the amp. You may not have HD800, but I guess any headphones that are on the brighter side in your collection, should be good enough for this comparison.

I remember lots of people compared Phonitor Xe vs Violectric V281 a while ago and most of the folks would end up saying V281 had a warmer, more tubey flavor. Now that the V281 is in the past and with V590 being supposedly a bit more neutral, I assume Phonitor and the V590 should offer a very similar sound signature. So, that's quite an interesting comparison to do.

I think classical, jazz and vocal recordings would be more indicative, but it's totally up to you of course

The RME's EQ is enough to tame the 800's treble. The amp after that is not part of the equation.

For the record, I have the V280 and I don't consider it warm. I think it's very faithful and maybe even a little austere.

 

[Arniesb]

Thank you @AnimalOnDrums , I'm esitant to pull the trigger for V590 DAC/Amp combo, before I've still a couple of questions regarding its warm sound signature using headphones like Audeze LCD-3 and the feeling and audibility of its stepped attenuator.

Your feeling of warmer sound to both DAC and amp portion of V590 compared to other combinations scared me that with LCD-3 could be too much.
Since I favor also rythm and speed I've found the good old V281 sometimes to be a little too warm with LCD-3, loosing precision/details in some fast passages, overall it's pleasing and punchy and not always a limit, but that combination could be bettered on some fast paced tracks.
You point the warmer sound signature is more on the DAC portion, do you think it's better to wait for the upcoming Violectric no DAC version using LCD-3?
Does speed improve with Phonitor XE vs V590 amp only portion or is the same?

Regarding the stepped attenuators I always disliked the audibility/feeling of them: phisycally feel the steps turning the knob, hearing their clicks inside headphones while listening to music and even the not continuos fine adjustment of volume (sometime a tiny bit bring all in focus).
Could you describe the V590 stepped volume control feeling and useability in more detail?

Thank you very much to share your experience with us!

You can wait amp version of this. Violectric amp pair very well with clean sounding sabre dacs or with chord dacs.
I find that clear dacs with strong attack pair very well with smooth sounding amps in general. Such combo fit very well with most headphones.

 

[AnimalOnDrums]

Thank you @AnimalOnDrums , I'm esitant to pull the trigger for V590 DAC/Amp combo, before I've still a couple of questions regarding its warm sound signature using headphones like Audeze LCD-3 and the feeling and audibility of its stepped attenuator.

Your feeling of warmer sound to both DAC and amp portion of V590 compared to other combinations scared me that with LCD-3 could be too much.
Since I favor also rythm and speed I've found the good old V281 sometimes to be a little too warm with LCD-3, loosing precision/details in some fast passages, overall it's pleasing and punchy and not always a limit, but that combination could be bettered on some fast paced tracks.
You point the warmer sound signature is more on the DAC portion, do you think it's better to wait for the upcoming Violectric no DAC version using LCD-3?
Does speed improve with Phonitor XE vs V590 amp only portion or is the same?

Regarding the stepped attenuators I always disliked the audibility/feeling of them: phisycally feel the steps turning the knob, hearing their clicks inside headphones while listening to music and even the not continuos fine adjustment of volume (sometime a tiny bit bring all in focus).
Could you describe the V590 stepped volume control feeling and useability in more detail?

Thank you very much to share your experience with us!

Hey @Thraex ,
No problem! I am happy to answer your questions as best I can. I do not think there is too much warmth with the LCD-3. When I say that the DAC and the Amp are warmer that the Phonitor or the Benchmark set, it is not a large difference at all. I think Fegefeuer described the sound of the V590 perfectly by saying it is not as warm as the V281but a little bit warmer than the Niimbus US4 and US4+, which are very neutral. I think another good way to explain it is simply that the warmth I am referring to simply takes away that clinical super clinical aspects of the sound and presents the music with a more musicality. The V590 is also not slower than either the Benchmark set or the Phonitor XE. I find that speed is very headphone dependent with all of these set ups as well. With the Mr. Speakers Ether 2, the V590 sounds lighter and punchier than it does with the LCD-3 and the extra bass is perfect because the Ether 2 is not as heavy in the low end as the LCD-3.

The volume control on the V590 pro uses Reed relays, which are controlled magnetically so it is a completely smooth volume control and does not have any clicks. Just like the Phonitor XE and the Benchmark HPA4, the volume control is motorized so it can be controlled by a remote control as well as by hand. The motorized volume knobs have a little bit of resistance to them. It's nothing major, but you can tell they are motorized. On the V590, there is no resistance and the volume control turns almost effortlessly. Like the Benchmark set, the V590 has a remote control that controls everything that amp can do except for powering it on and off. The Phonitors don't come with a remote and you can only program a remote to control the volume. When you are sitting next to the amp a remote does not really matter and just having remote volume control on the Phonitor is fine unless you want to continually change the settings on the Phonitor.

One thing the Phonitor has that neither of V590 or HPA4 has is cross feed control. This makes a big difference for some people. For me, the differences between all the settings were small, but noticeable. I leave the settings off, but that is just my personal taste.

In the end, you are going to be extremely happy with either the V590 or the Phonitor. I am not trying to convince you to buy the V590 or to not buy it. If you already have a DAC you love and are just looking for an amp, then you should probably go with the Phonitor since it will be 1/2 the price. I was told that other units in the new Vioelectric line up are not that close to coming out. If you want just an amp, it's going to be a little while.

 

[musicus]

Can anyone please confirm if I can play dsd files from my laptop (MacBook Pro) on the V590? Presumably via USB / DoP?

 

[AnimalOnDrums]

Can anyone please confirm if I can play dsd files from my laptop (MacBook Pro) on the V590? Presumably via USB / DoP?

Yes, it plays DSD files natively

 

[Fegefeuer]

V590's amp section pairs very well with the Bifrost 2 which would be considered warm, romantic in comparison to a unit like the X-Sabre Pro.
It's all a matter of the full chain though, as usual. I had the Gungnir B + V281 combo and I don't want to imagine what a Sabre would inflict. The Gungnir combination was absolutely sublime but could sometimes go a bit wild with the wrong (brighter) headphone. So there are no easy absolutes with gear matching.

For instance. My HE-6 No.1 is tonally the better match for the V590's amp than for the US4+ as the treble is a bit more lively than I want it to be sometimes. And it's modded very intensively. My second (unmodded) HE-6 pairs with the US4+ better. While Hifiman driver matching was always pretty good and consistent, there are slight outliers.
I can counter case one with other pads though.

Just saying this to remark that building a chain is not that easy sometimes as many factors are involved.

I think the LCD-3 will pair very well just as it did with the V281 already, with more enhanced technicalities now. However I doubt it scales as good as the 650/6XX.
Those two are crazy good on the US4+. Did not have enough time to listen to both on the V590 with holidays etc... Will do of course.

Remember that while the US4+ is their most neutral high end amp to date, it is absolutely not tuned to sound clinical. You will never get a such an amp from Fried.

 

[Thraex]

Thank you very much @AnimalOnDrums and @Fegefeuer for the detailed answers.
I'm convinced to order the V590, now the last question is stepper (Pro) or normal pot?
I don't know the technicalities of Reed relays and never owned one, I've understood turning the knob is physically without steps/clicks and buttery smoolth, but what about hearing any noise inside the headphone while turning the volume? Can you hear the "tic-tic-tics" or it's totally silent?

 

[F Bizzle]

I wouldn't say that there are any ticks/stepping as you turn the knob. I think the intent is perfectly smooth volume adjustment. However, if the headphone is extremely efficient, you might hear some static initially when you start turning the knob. I've heard it on the V281 and other amps that use a DACT type attenuator. I hear it more with a ZMF Verité than a DT880 660ohm for example.

Also I agree that the Bifrost 2 pairs extremely well with the V590. To my ears, the V590 deviates from the V28X sound to where it is a more neutral amp. I had to compensate with the slight treble roll-off and warmth (in my opinion) on my V281 with a more analytical DAC like the Soekris 1541. The V590 and 1541 was still good, but not an ideal pairing for me as it was too analytical for my most used headphones, but likewise, the BF2 wasn't my ideal match with the V281 for me, but it is awesome on the V590. Overall, it has been a great amp for me coming from the V281.

I think if at times you are not happy with the warmth of the V281, the V590 is a refreshing change of pace. I was initially surprised on how big of a difference it was for me moving from the V281 to the V590. Though, I wouldn't say I felt that the V281 is slow or unable to keep up on busy songs. I do think that amp might be a little more DAC picky as I felt I had build a chain that would compensate and play to each components strength. The V590 is probably less picky and in a sense, it is probably more compatible more DACs and headphones that I've played with in my chain.