[originalsnuffy]

To me, the most interesting comparison for vinyl vs. digital is when the digital source is on SACD. The digital waveforms on SACD, as I understand it, look like analog. The last vinyl I purchased new had terrible pops (Procol Harum EP celebrating the 50th anniversary of A Whiter Shade of Pale). And a recent purchase of Hot Dawg on vinyl ended up having a big warp on the disc. So I am continuing to shift from vinyl to hi res, especially SACD.

Early on somebody mentioned Blues and the Abstract Truth by Oliver Nelson. The SACD of that is very nice also.

 

[FYFL]

SADC is a great digital format. A little pricey ($30-35) for digital media and limited to what… 6K titles. I’m afraid that it either needs stronger support to survive or more aggressive pricing.

I won’t defend warped or low quality pressing/mastering (especially those lazy digital transfers). But good quality LP can sound quite satisfying. And if your analog rig (from stylus to phono) is capable to dig in that grove and retrieve every nuance of that record, it can be quite spectacular.
I think the same can be said for digital reproduction chain, or SACD in this instance.
Usually I dig a little into specific vinyl that I’m about to purchase. Who’s behind it, where it was pressed, new vs previous pressings etc. And then I make my purchasing decision.
There’s a lot of “bad” vinyl being pushed that came from questionable sources and without clear indication how it was remastered or by who and where. Especially with Amazon, Walmart and others trying to get their share from vinyl sells. It makes it a little confusing for most and shady.
Same with those cheap turntables being pushed for younger demographic to choke on. It’s a scam and you should be aware of it. Not you specifically but you know what I mean.

 

[hakunamakaka]

SADC is a great digital format. A little pricey ($30-35) for digital media and limited to what… 6K titles. I’m afraid that it either needs stronger support to survive or more aggressive pricing.

I won’t defend warped or low quality pressing/mastering (especially those lazy digital transfers). But good quality LP can sound quite satisfying. And if your analog rig (from stylus to phono) is capable to dig in that grove and retrieve every nuance of that record, it can be quite spectacular.
I think the same can be said for digital reproduction chain, or SACD in this instance.
Usually I dig a little into specific vinyl that I’m about to purchase. Who’s behind it, where it was pressed, new vs previous pressings etc. And then I make my purchasing decision.
There’s a lot of “bad” vinyl being pushed that came from questionable sources and without clear indication how it was remastered or by who and where. Especially with Amazon, Walmart and others trying to get their share from vinyl sells. It makes it a little confusing for most and shady.
Same with those cheap turntables being pushed for younger demographic to choke on. It’s a scam and you should be aware of it. Not you specifically but you know what I mean.

I mistakenly believed that all vinyls will be on pair regards sound quality and I've learned it the hard way at the start of my LP journey. There are so many crappy pressings that I've ordered from discogs.... Instead It would have been better if I sticked to digital. For some releases I even managed to make same mistake over & over again because I wanted good quality release so bad. Few examples like Funkadelic - Maggot Brain, Tony Allen - No accomodation for lagos...Now I think that these albums were simply badly mastered/recorded and all my hopes are to wait for a remastered re-issue.

I avoid releases of electronic music on LP as the ones that I got were not impressing and I think it's like a rule of thumb that music produced in digital is better off there, unless I feel my tube coloration would gel well with it. Now though still struggling with tube replacements ;/

 

[FYFL]

I mistakenly believed that all vinyls will be on pair regards sound quality and I've learned it the hard way at the start of my LP journey. There are so many crappy pressings that I've ordered from discogs.... Instead It would have been better if I sticked to digital. For some releases I even managed to make same mistake over & over again because I wanted good quality release so bad. Few examples like Funkadelic - Maggot Brain, Tony Allen - No accomodation for lagos...Now I think that these albums were simply badly mastered/recorded and all my hopes are to wait for a remastered re-issue.

I avoid releases of electronic music on LP as the ones that I got were not impressing and I think it's like a rule of thumb that music produced in digital is better off there, unless I feel my tube coloration would gel well with it. Now though still struggling with tube replacements ;/

I’m not authority on electronic music so I can’t say much about it.
I got few near my heavy rotation pile that sound pretty good. Daft Punk that I listen to last night is very good. So is Darkside Psychic double lp or a bit out there Susumu Yokota “the boy and the tree”. Very interesting music. Weird in a way but it gets me reach for it from time to time and I don’t know why?
45 RPM Audiophile is a lot more knowledgeable about electronic music and best quality recordings. He posted couple vids about it but you can also try to get in touch with him for more inside on this genre.

But you could be right about electronic music getting neglected by certain labels. Perhaps digital makes more sense for this particular genre.

 

[FYFL]

Got this as a gift at one of the HP meets. Never had a chance to listen to it tho. Music is actually kind of cool. Mastering is amateurish at best. But still enjoyable. Quite a bit of surface noise and recording seems as if it was coming from another room. Don’t know who these ppl are but I like their music.

 

[FYFL]

Back to quality masters….. It’s like switching from lo-fi to hi-fi.

 

[]eep]

I mistakenly believed that all vinyls will be on pair regards sound quality and I've learned it the hard way at the start of my LP journey. There are so many crappy pressings that I've ordered from discogs.... Instead It would have been better if I sticked to digital. For some releases I even managed to make same mistake over & over again because I wanted good quality release so bad. Few examples like Funkadelic - Maggot Brain, Tony Allen - No accomodation for lagos...Now I think that these albums were simply badly mastered/recorded and all my hopes are to wait for a remastered re-issue.

I avoid releases of electronic music on LP as the ones that I got were not impressing and I think it's like a rule of thumb that music produced in digital is better off there, unless I feel my tube coloration would gel well with it. Now though still struggling with tube replacements ;/

Not in my experience. I got Zomby, Chemical Brothers, Depeche Mode, Sakamoto & Alva Noto, Basement Jaxx etc and they are awesome. I really don't shy away from heavy beats, drum 'n base etc. My problem is getting hold of them at a decent price.


Switching back gear... Not to keep on ranting about this but my experience with vinyl/perspex platter was quite the opposite coming from a Linn with a felt mat. It gave me bass, opened up the space, it breathed life into the recording. The Linn Axis was bland and boring in comparison. Mind you, I traded it for a Pro-ject Perspective. Many people say Pro-ject is rubbish. I don't agree. It was a breath of fresh air to me compared to the Linn Axis (Akito arm). It was so much better. My Pro-ject had upgraded arm cabling so that may have helped. But I was cured from the Linn cult state of mind. Later I upgraded to the Clearaudio Performance with perspex platter. I am curious what my new FFYX with its heavy aluminum platter will do. I have no idea if I will be elated or disappointed. Depends on the 12" FFYX arm too. But I think it will be better overall. At least I will have another option for a better (2nd) arm.

 

[FYFL]

Not in my experience. I got Zomby, Chemical Brothers, Depeche Mode, Sakamoto & Alva Noto, Basement Jaxx etc and they are awesome. I really don't shy away from heavy beats, drum 'n base etc. My problem is getting hold of them at a decent price.


Switching back gear... Not to keep on ranting about this but my experience with vinyl/perspex platter was quite the opposite coming from a Linn with a felt mat. It gave me bass, opened up the space, it breathed life into the recording. The Linn Axis was bland and boring in comparison. Mind you, I traded it for a Pro-ject Perspective. Many people say Pro-ject is rubbish. I don't agree. It was a breath of fresh air to me compared to the Linn Axis (Akito arm). It was so much better. My Pro-ject had upgraded arm cabling so that may have helped. But I was cured from the Linn cult state of mind. Later I upgraded to the Clearaudio Performance with perspex platter. I am curious what my new FFYX with its heavy aluminum platter will do. I have no idea if I will be elated or disappointed. Depends on the 12" FFYX arm too. But I think it will be better overall. At least I will have another option for a better (2nd) arm.

I would be wrong to assume one approach is better over the other. We have covered a bunch of variables and most important, how various materials, design schemes influence overall performance. Therefor it’s hard for amateur like myself to speculate on what’s better, best or plain rubbish. What I know is strictly based on my experience. I have own idlers, mid-price Music Hall, Technics, Audio Technica, basic VPI, Marantz, few DIY projects, Townshend Rock and Rega. And they all sounded different. Some better than others, clearly. And they all use different approach to reach the same goal. That’s why I said that there’s no “golden” formula. It all depends on design and how every component of that turntable interacts with each other. And let’s keep in mind that cost is relative. Manufacturers are in business to make profit. Otherwise it would be just another wet dream. So compromises had to be made somewhere. That’s understandable, I think.
Filtering through all that BS is on the consumer side (unfortunately). And forums could offer some help (I think that’s one of the reasons for this thread). However, there’s only so much that can be said or researched on line. You simply have to experience couple well setup vinyl rigs to form some basic idea as what you want and how far you want to take it. I can make some suggestions on TTs that are safe to recommend at certain price point. TTs that average person can enjoy with little to non of know how. When we get to more muddy water of tweaks, DIY stuff or restorations well, that’s usually a can of worms that I rather not get into. For obvious reason. We all have opinions. Lol

As to your “fear” or expectations with FFYX approach to TT building. Well, IMO if the parts are of high quality and principles are not ignored, you have an excellent base for a good turntable. I think you will enjoy it. And hopefully we will hear about your experience here.
Would I love to take it for a spin and see how it does and what could be got out of it? Sure. But just not that guy. I don’t entertain review offers as they bare to much responsibility. And I wouldn’t mind pissing off crappy manufacturing. But I will share my experiences if I come across something interesting.
Also, keep in mind that manufacturers will always try to reinvent the wheel to make it more appealing to costumers. From tube gear manufacturers rehashing 50 year old circuitries to TT makes and their fancy aerospace materials. Lol
Good rule of thumb. Keep it simple and remember the fundamentals.
Which that more manufacturers would tried that approach more often.

 

[The Jester]

Getting “more” from hardware is a never ending journey but in the end the source recording/mixing/mastering is the limiting factor regardless of format, I bought the Daft Punk title you mentioned on sale on CD, popped it the car on the way home and immediately “this sounds really good” should sound great at home, which it did, with others it was “I hope this sounds better at home” , sometimes it did, others it didn’t ..
Having said that the car system isn’t exactly “standard” either …
Once you have a selection of really good recordings then all the time and effort with hardware really pays off and turns “listening to some music” into an absorbing event where there’s no more turntables, CD players, speakers etc, just you and the artists and everything else is left behind …
And if your lucky, now and then a recording comes along that just makes you think “ Oh wow” ..

 

[simon740]

Hi guys,

I found out that it is possible to get Pro-Ject turntables for a good price in our country. What do you say? What combination of turntable + phono preamp for somewhere around 1500 €?

And one more thing: I'm currently listening to Art Pepper - Meets The Rhythm Section. In the "digi version".
I’m looking at Discogs.com .... Is there really such a big difference in sound quality between a record from Analogue Production and say Contemporary Records? Because there is a big difference in price.

regards,
Simon

 

[CJG888]

The phono preamp is the easy bit. Pro-ject Tube Box DS. That will leave you with about 1,000€ for the turntable incl. cartridge.

 

[The Jester]

Hi guys,

I found out that it is possible to get Pro-Ject turntables for a good price in our country. What do you say? What combination of turntable + phono preamp for somewhere around 1500 €?

And one more thing: I'm currently listening to Art Pepper - Meets The Rhythm Section. In the "digi version".
I’m looking at Discogs.com .... Is there really such a big difference in sound quality between a record from Analogue Production and say Contemporary Records? Because there is a big difference in price.

regards,
Simon

Again it really depends on mastering/mixing and your digital system, and I don’t own any “Analogue Productions” albums so I’d do as much research on their website, if available and find out their methods, business goals etc and see if it’s getting the best music possible from their products.

 

[CJG888]

There is a difference, but it isn’t huge. A lot of the European OJC series were well-mastered and pressed. Some were awful. It’s a bit of a „lucky dip“. For example, just look at this:

Yes, matrix by Sheffield Labs!!!

 

[FYFL]

Getting “more” from hardware is a never ending journey but in the end the source recording/mixing/mastering is the limiting factor regardless of format, I bought the Daft Punk title you mentioned on sale on CD, popped it the car on the way home and immediately “this sounds really good” should sound great at home, which it did, with others it was “I hope this sounds better at home” , sometimes it did, others it didn’t ..
Having said that the car system isn’t exactly “standard” either …
Once you have a selection of really good recordings then all the time and effort with hardware really pays off and turns “listening to some music” into an absorbing event where there’s no more turntables, CD players, speakers etc, just you and the artists and everything else is left behind …
And if your lucky, now and then a recording comes along that just makes you think “ Oh wow” ..

Clearly, good mastering is “money”. I rather cherry pick recordings that were done by legends that I’m familiar with than play Russian Roulette. Or, at very least, try to gather some feedback from vinyl/audiophile community. Since prices of vinyl are skyrocketing, I am very cautious with my new LP purchases. Used vinyl, not so much.

I have mentioned that same master engineers who are responsible for those outstanding re-masters, also did digital counterparts for streaming services or other digital media. However, when you shuffle through streaming library, it’s not always clear where that particular mastering originated from. Sometimes they include a year of the remaster or other vague description. And it’s hard to filter though it.
I think during one of the interviews K. Gray talked about this. And acknowledged that streaming services don’t really include those details. Not that he particularly minds. As he said, “they apply their own processing”. So I guess, taking ownership of files that are manipulated even farther to fit their platform scheme is not very flattering.
Ofcause I don’t limit myself to only well recorded music/titles/labels.
And that’s where digital comes in.
Streaming for the most part.
It can sound really good (sometimes).
And I really enjoy it.

I did however canceled my Tidal subscription. And switched to Qobuz, after running both side by side for couple months.

 

[hakunamakaka]

Got this as a gift at one of the HP meets. Never had a chance to listen to it tho. Music is actually kind of cool. Mastering is amateurish at best. But still enjoyable. Quite a bit of surface noise and recording seems as if it was coming from another room. Don’t know who these ppl are but I like their music.

Khruangbing is an amazing band based in USA, very easy to listen and amazing for relaxed sessions. You can spin these tunes for the majority of the people and they will enjoy them. You should really check their newer release "Con Todo el Mundo" it is just as good if not better

Not in my experience. I got Zomby, Chemical Brothers, Depeche Mode, Sakamoto & Alva Noto, Basement Jaxx etc and they are awesome. I really don't shy away from heavy beats, drum 'n base etc. My problem is getting hold of them at a decent price.


Switching back gear... Not to keep on ranting about this but my experience with vinyl/perspex platter was quite the opposite coming from a Linn with a felt mat. It gave me bass, opened up the space, it breathed life into the recording. The Linn Axis was bland and boring in comparison. Mind you, I traded it for a Pro-ject Perspective. Many people say Pro-ject is rubbish. I don't agree. It was a breath of fresh air to me compared to the Linn Axis (Akito arm). It was so much better. My Pro-ject had upgraded arm cabling so that may have helped. But I was cured from the Linn cult state of mind. Later I upgraded to the Clearaudio Performance with perspex platter. I am curious what my new FFYX with its heavy aluminum platter will do. I have no idea if I will be elated or disappointed. Depends on the 12" FFYX arm too. But I think it will be better overall. At least I will have another option for a better (2nd) arm.

These are okey for LP's and do enjoy electronic bands like Massive Attack - > Mezzanine release. Simply an audio nirvana to me over turntable. With other electronica though I do love to go to the dark places when I'm in the mood, "Identified Patient", "Helena Hauf" , "Tzusing"...brings me back to my early raving days in Berlin factories & warehouses. Digital format somehow has more bite to it and sounds more aggressive, even though the bass is more present with LP.

I see that FYFL is a lot into jazz and that's an acquired taste... I have small/odd jazz collection but to me it is usually too complex and tiring for longer listening sessions.

I can't even fit my favorite tracks into some sort of genre. It is weird/trippy electronica or acoustic music with mx of jazz and other elements
This is one of my favourite LP compilation release of all time -->

I think you should be able to find whole LP in spotify/youtube. Agnes Obel - Late night tales