[]eep]

Hi guys,

I found out that it is possible to get Pro-Ject turntables for a good price in our country. What do you say? What combination of turntable + phono preamp for somewhere around 1500 €?

And one more thing: I'm currently listening to Art Pepper - Meets The Rhythm Section. In the "digi version".
I’m looking at Discogs.com .... Is there really such a big difference in sound quality between a record from Analogue Production and say Contemporary Records? Because there is a big difference in price.

regards,
Simon

I can't argue against the Debut Pro. Only the black colour. It looks very promising. Good arm, good platter probably if maybe rather light. I haven't seen the rest under the hood yet.

The X2 is also very nice. The white would look awesome in your room. You can buy it without cartridge so you can choose something better than that average ortofon.... (censored) Good arm, good platter (thick and heavy enough) and I think acrylic sounds good (with a clamp pref). Speed stability of this price range is (very) good.

The Classic has a bit different look but is also a great performer. With the 2M silver (this is a compromise fttb but only +€50) would leave 400 for a phono stage.

And I would know what phono stage to pick. The Chinese clone Ear834 with mm/mc in silver. €400.
Or the iFi. Or the Chinese Klimo clone I'm probably going to buy. Or a pro-ject but these are expensive compared to Chinese ones. Then there's the Limetree, Lehmann black cube, Graham Slee, Tisbury Audio Domino Link (nice and not expensive €186).

If I were to buy a really good, not expensive MC I would look at either Audio Technica AT-OC9XEN (elliptical nude 0.3x0.7mil €250 eBay Italy ) or the Lpaudio Windbell mc100 (€230) (hyper elliptical stylus, not sure but better than just 0.3x0.7)

 

[FYFL]

Well, you’re the authority on those eBay clones. I never heard one in person. Price is attractive tho.

 

[FYFL]

Better integration with speaker level connections than line level, as the Sub amp is using the exact same input from the power amp that the speaker sees .. fine tuning can be done by laptop from the listening chair but I found the recommended setting worked fine…
Trying to integrate one of my Velodyne subs in a similar way never quite worked out and resulted in sub output overlapping the mains far too much and “muddying “ the low mids under 100hz or so,
With the B&W the main speakers sound exactly the same with the sub off or on in regards to separation, depth and imaging but gained a nice sense of extension and “weight” with the Sub on ….

That sounds promising. Especially that last paragraph.

 

[The Jester]

That sounds promising. Especially that last paragraph.

As long as you don’t expect miracles it’s a nice addition, but it won’t accurately produce 1812 overture canons at realistic levels or the live effects of a 64 foot organ pipe, but at “domestic” levels it works nicely,
But not many speaker systems can do that anyway, fans of organ music and such go to extreme lengths such as 15-18” drivers bricked into walls and massive underfloor horns, none of which comes cheap ..
Back in my speaker building days the last pair I built were 1/4 wave transmission lines that used 2 165mm bass/mid drivers that had an in room response -3db at 18hz, but they too were limited in output power to domestic rather than realistic levels…
The other way to go is having the listening room as quiet as possible, ceiling insulation is pretty standard with our climate, add that to some nice heavy curtains on any windows and solid “exterior type” doors vs the usual lightweight ones, lowering the ambient level by 3db is the same as doubling amplifier and speaker power as far as dynamic range is concerned .. and more WAF friendly if they get to choose the curtains … LOL

 

[iFi audio]

Listen to some orchestral music playing alongside a full pipe organ,

That music really is intense on hardware and dynamically probably as wide as it gets.

But not many speaker systems can do that anyway, fans of organ music and such go to extreme lengths such as 15-18” drivers bricked into walls and massive underfloor horns, none of which comes cheap ..

Let's not forget horns as large as room walls and integrated there

The other way to go is having the listening room as quiet as possible, ceiling insulation is pretty standard with our climate, add that to some nice heavy curtains on any windows and solid “exterior type” doors vs the usual lightweight ones,

I agree here. With stereo setups our rooms talk to us whether we like that or not, but it doesn't take much to improve those conversations. A rug in front of speakers and
some curtains alone will make a drastic difference in space that previously had none of that.

 

[CJG888]

This is quite a good test (and a brilliant performance), even though it is a digital recording:

I tend not to be snobbish about DMM…

 

[The Jester]

Whatever sounds good is good ?

 

[Quinto]

 

[CJG888]

Absolutely. The CBSO at their best, + full choir + Janet Baker!

 

[Whitigir]

The one thing speakers are and have always been bad at is the sub bass. It can’t outperform a high end headphones that way. The cohesiveness may also have problems, in which the proper high end full-size headphones will always be a pro at

 

[FYFL]

Yup, room acoustics is next on my to-do-list. Not that it is horribly neglected or overlooked. But I feel if could get better.
At the moment, it’s a basic+ semi-treated room. Some acoustic panels and curtains on sidewalks, area rug and natural cork tiles on front and back wall. Ceiling was raised to 11f. It makes this room sound a little bigger than it is.
Speakers (Klipsch Cornwalls4) have very narrow dispersion pattern due to horn wave guide used with tweeter and midrange driver. So first reflection points aren’t really a huge concern. And they are aggressively toed-in to minimize first reflections even farther.
Speakers are at 1/5th of room length. Seating position at 3/4ths.
I have some ideas how to improve it farther without getting marriage counseling involved but that’s for another time.

I’m not big on pipe organ music to be honest so no plans for horn sub made out of concrete, extending outside of the house. I remember reading about that project. Nuts.

If my dealer is willing to bring over for a demo one of Rel subs that he sells, I would be willing to give it a try. Space is an issue tho. And if two subs are needed for even frequency response well, that’s out of question.

 

[FYFL]

The one thing speakers are and have always been bad at is the sub bass. It can’t outperform a high end headphones that way. The cohesiveness may also have problems, in which the proper high end full-size headphones will always be a pro at

Yeah but no headphones can give you chest pounding bass. You don’t just hear it, you can actually feel it.

 

[Whitigir]

Yeah but no headphones can give you chest pounding bass. You don’t just hear it, you can actually feel it.

Agreed, each system has their own u inquest pros and cons. In headphones, you can actually opt for mid bass emphasizing phones, and that would vibrate your ears and you can also feel it too.
There is no perfections, the best way is to have both systems lol

 

[iFi audio]

The one thing speakers are and have always been bad at is the sub bass. It can’t outperform a high end headphones that way. The cohesiveness may also have problems, in which the proper high end full-size headphones will always be a pro at

It depends on speakers really and subs are an option too. One of course would have to have a setup that would allow for integrating a standalone sub with regular passive speakers, but sub-bass isn't of the table for these entirely. As with all things in audio, it all depends

But it's fair to say that headphones can go really low right away and with no extra measures involved.

Yeah but no headphones can give you chest pounding bass. You don’t just hear it, you can actually feel it.

That's the advantage of speakers right there. The way how 15 or 18" woofers behave is quite frankly impossible to mimic and, as you've pointed out, this feels way different versus headphones. On the upside, headphones remove room and all associated problems and that's a very big plus.

 

[Whitigir]

It depends on speakers really and subs are an option too. One of course would have to have a setup that would allow for integrating a standalone sub with regular passive speakers, but sub-bass isn't of the table for these entirely. As with all things in audio, it all depends

But it's fair to say that headphones can go really low right away and with no extra measures involved.

Well, when you add in a stand alone sub woofer, then it is another matter. However, having both systems. I can tell you that I rather enjoy headphones more as I get details and cohesiveness that I don’t normally get out of the speakers. A proper high end headphones system will always be a great addition to have

Speakers always have 2 elements that one can’t get from headphones, the staging and the dynamic prowess that you can feel. There is no denying it