[mjg]

that was i who mentioned the neo geo,

the object of envy if you were around 11 years old in say 1991. ; )

What is worthy of mention: I was lured into computers by my sisters commodore 128 i had pocession of around 88, 89.

It's now my livilhood, yet the irony is now i hardly have the patience to play these ridiculously pimped out super duper on steriods and crack, and overlocked jacked up modern day games.


My 8 year old version of me would stab me in anger if he knew what i'm missing out on.... tragic irony of life.

dream cast lacked rpg's?

Shenmue to me, is the best and only RPG i've ever really liked to date. Yea and i'm going back to the days were final fantasy didn't really exist.
How can u not be a vintage gamer and not appreciate going to an arcade machine in an RPG to play super hangon? Gah.

 

[Jahn]

or space harrier. i wasted SO many quarters on that in the arcade. i should get shinmue just for that (yeah i have a DC still).

 

[450]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloco I have one, it was a POS. That's when gaming went to hell, imho. I really lost interested after the PS1 since games evolved to something i didn't like...multi-player crap. A lot of the games i grew up with were pushed aside and a lot of these MMO's are coming out, which i don't care for. SNES was the golden era of gaming...tons of rpg's!

YES!!!

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg that was i who mentioned the neo geo... dream cast lacked rpg's? Shenmue to me, is the best and only RPG i've ever really liked to date. Yea and i'm going back to the days were final fantasy didn't really exist. How can u not be a vintage gamer and not appreciate going to an arcade machine in an RPG to play super hangon? Gah.

Well, my definition of a rpg is final fantasy, Shenmue was not a rpg.

Actually, i mentioned the Neo Geo in a thread i created about being bored...

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450 YES!!!

bow down to the rpg god!

Anyone ever play battle of olympus on the nes? That game kicked serious ass.

Shadowrun for snes? That game was excellent too.

 

[mjg]

Snes was the golden era of gaming?


The snes was an awkward system in that, the 16 bit days were nearing an end, the genesis and amiga 1xxxx computers capitalized on it's glory outside of an arcade in itself, and you are telling me in the era of 93ish-95, when a ps was already an option (yea 3d0 didnt cut it out) you mean to say this is the golden era of gaming?

The snes in itself did have an angle on genesis with its superior hardware, but nothing in convention or style was especially spectacular about snes besides the fact franchise 8bit games got life in spectacular and glorious "16 bit arcade quality" graphics. That was arcade graphics maybe about 6 years as of prior, and the 3D thing already got a start... The genesis did that alreadt and snes was pretty much to me, blah.... The snes was the mark of the recession in gaming if you asked me. That was when arcades became laundramats, and arcade machines that did exist were starting to become
crappy 2 dollar a game "hoes", and then in a few years pretty disgusting carnival esque rides were u pay in a table in the center of room and games now require cat 5 and special or cool" tokens"....

Yea, the golden era of arcades and gaming to me was probablly throughout the 80s, yet it all started in the mid 70s. Golden era meaning at it's prime, yea PACMAN got so big people were wearing tshirts of it and stuff before gaming even ment anything, the video game recission that happened in the mid 80s let loose of home gaming, coleco became a gem for nerds, and then NES came out.

That's the golden era of gaming to me.
(sorry for harsh opinions, i get passionate about this stuff).

Also one more opinion before i get going, the modern day final fantasy games are every way as unconventionial (as is shenmue) compared to what RPG's originally were, so to caste all RPG's as games similar to final fantasy to me is just wrong. I've dabbled with a few, and it's my opinion as is to many shenmue is in fact a RPG. Disagree fine, but i think they took an rpg to another direction and it was amazing.
I edited the message to make it less angry sorry guys!

 

[HiGHFLYiN9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jahn or space harrier. i wasted SO many quarters on that in the arcade. i should get shinmue just for that (yeah i have a DC still).

Ahh that was totally my favorite game, played it many times in the arcade including the version with the pod that moved up and down as you controlled it. Made sure to get it on the good 'ol Sega master system.

In reference to the people talking about the Dreamcast I thought it was legitimately an excellent system. It was the first console I actually had connected to the internet, the VMUs were genius, I really liked the trigger buttons for racing games, and the system had a small footprint which made it easy to transport if need be. Too bad it bit the dust so quickly. It all worked out best though having Sega publish games for other systems, I wonder if Nintendo would be better off adopting that strategy?

 

[mjg]

i think u can buy shenmue now for like 8 bux, and probablly a dream cast for around 20 bux.

Pretty sweet deal for less then what a ps2 game costs ; )

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Snes was the golden era of gaming?

It's the games brother, not the hardware...the GAMES.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg The snes was an awkward system in that, the 16 bit days were nearing an end, the genesis and amiga 1xxxx computers capitalized on it's glory outside of an arcade in itself, and you are telling me in the era of 93ish-95, when a ps was already an option (yea 3d0 didnt cut it out) you mean to say this is the golden era of gaming?

Sorry, pc's were way too expensive and very awkward to play with. 16 bit days were nowhere near an end in 1990 when the snes was introduced in Japan, it was it's golden years where you could get near perfect arcade translations (read: Street Fighter 2, Mortal Kombat) and the best of all worlds...all the major publisher's were releasing games on the snes. This is before publisher's split into factions based on supporting a system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg The snes in itself did have an angle on genesis with its superior hardware, but nothing in convention or style was especially spectacular about snes besides the fact franchise 8bit games got life in spectacular and glorious "16 bit arcade quality" graphics. That was arcade graphics maybe about 6 years as of prior, and the 3D thing already got a start... The genesis did that alreadt and snes was pretty much to me, blah.... The snes was the mark of the recession in gaming if you asked me. That was when arcades became laundramats, and arcade machines that did exist were starting to become crappy 2 dollar a game "hoes", and then in a few years pretty disgusting carnival esque rides were u pay in a table in the center of room and games now require cat 5 and special or cool" tokens"....

Dude, you're getting way of course. Hardware does not equal great games (well...until the ps1, imho). The difference between snes and genesis was the fact that many companies were loyal to the big N and they knew they would make a ton of money of of them at the time. Sega eventually got quite big with the Genesis, but their ego's shot themselves in the foot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Yea, the golden era of arcades and gaming to me was probablly throughout the 80s, yet it all started in the mid 70s. Golden era meaning at it's prime, yea PACMAN got so big people were wearing tshirts of it and stuff before gaming even ment anything, the video game recission that happened in the mid 80s let loose of home gaming, coleco became a gem for nerds, and then NES came out.

Well, you're wrong. The golden era was the early 90's. Gaming in the 70's was in it's infancy and new as a entertainment product. I think the 16bit console paved the way to what we are playing now...think about it. Games like FF6 gave us characters with emotions, a great plot and tons of hrs of gaming, this is what we are used to nowadays. FF6 was considered "cutting edge."

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg That's the golden era of gaming to me. (sorry for harsh opinions, i get passionate about this stuff).

That's cool, i tend to be a bit blunt in my assertions too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Also one more opinion before i get going, the modern day final fantasy games are every way as unconventionial (as is shenmue) compared to what RPG's originally were, so to caste all RPG's as games similar to final fantasy to me is just wrong. I've dabbled with a few, and it's my opinion as is to many shenmue is in fact a RPG. Disagree fine, but i think they took an rpg to another direction and it was amazing. I edited the message to make it less angry sorry guys!

i agree that the latter FF's have something wrong with them...their lacking their rpg style they were built upon. Shenmue wouldn't be fair to compare it to lets say, FF6. Shenmue, to me, is an action adventure title. And yes, i must admit i never played it, but in no way does it appear to be a traditional rpg.

 

[warubozu]

I too spent countless hours and money playing Sega's Space Harrier in the full motion arcade machine. Shortly there after I move onto Sega's motocycle racing game Hang On in which the arcade machine had a fullsize bike mounted to in which you had to lean left and right to make thos hairpin turns at full throttle. Then there was Sega's Out Run where the motion version of the arcade machine had you sitting in an mini Ferrari that would move from side to side as you turn left or right. At nearly $2 per try at each game it was easy to spend $20 on just one arcade machine in one hour.

 

[mjg]

whooh, i re-read that and i totally missed the point,
let me edit my message and come back ; )

 

[mjg]

Sorry, pc's were way too expensive and very awkward to play with. 16 bit days were nowhere near an end in 1990 when the snes was introduced in Japan, it was it's golden years where you could get near perfect arcade translations (read: Street Fighter 2, Mortal Kombat) and the best of all worlds...all the major publisher's were releasing games on the snes. This is before publisher's split into factions based on supporting a system."

The amiga, yes an expensive toy, was the predecessor by and large to sega genesis in the latish 80s to 16 bit console/arcade type gaming at home. You were priveledged to own one, but people i knew with them let me try them out, and yea, it was all it was cracked up to be, and hey a joystick works...

Snes had perfect arcade translations? The 2 games you mentioned, well for considering those to be perfect arcade translations, it's pretty much said out of opinion, since i couldn't disagree more. The SF2 adaption was good, but not arcade perfect. The mortal kombat version though was corny, and not a similar experience. Yea it's about the games...


"Dude, you're getting way of course. Hardware does not equal great games (well...until the ps1, imho). The difference between snes and genesis was the fact that many companies were loyal to the big N and they knew they would make a ton of money of of them at the time. Sega eventually got quite big with the Genesis, but their ego's shot themselves in the foot."

Your making an inference about my comments, but your wrong in this case.
GENESIS was first. Are you awere of this? Super famicom was over in japan in 1990, but SNES didnt really materialize here until about 92 i believe, correct me if i'm wrong. SNES's main selling point was that it had superior hardware, as well as nintendo's franchise games.
Genesis was in the late 80's (yea i remember, about 88, 89 when 16 bit was all the buzz). Nintendo came to america with snes a few years later.


The genesis did bring home the arcade, but the arcade scene was dissipating as the snes dominated the 16 bit system wars after 16 bit became second rate. Playstation was just around the corner.
An interesting, and rather ironic comment:The reason play station even exists today was because nintendo
had a falling out with sony over the cdrom extension package they were developing.Sony ultimatly used it to make a PS.
Talk about nintendo being screwing themselves? They had the better hardware, then they became full of

The whole notion of 16 bit, and snes was a part of this was "16 bit graphics" was arcade quality. It became less about the games, and more so about the graphics way before snes was available for purchase.
For the few years both systems co-existed, snes had some unique and fun titles, but then again so did the genesis. It had the console defining games,
e.g) Sonic the hedge hog, Phantasy Star, Joe Montana Football.
SNES had most of the games genesis did, but a major part is that nintendo's franchise type characters and games were superior to sega's. If that was your thing fine, but it wasn't mine. Genesis had great games as well.themselves, you were calling sega arrogant? Nintendo might have still been the #1 console nowaday.

Let me address your "loyalty" issue regarding nintendo's major 3rd party support. Do you recalld uring the nes era that nintendo had a lockout chip forbidding developers to make their own cartridges?
How conveniant, nintendo became rich off the dependancy of developers to not only develope for THEIR system, but to let THEM make the cartridges. Genius. Now the SNES was way late to hit
the 16 bit arena, you know this to be true? Genesis had plenty of play in this furlough, it's undeniable. Nintendo had a great success with SNES because for a moment they were selling the best
hardware, had support, and because they had their franchise gaming (i keep pushing it, but isn't that the biggest thing). Remember when the system was kinda judged by the bundeled
software? Everyone remember super mario, and they loved it. Nintendo has alienated itself terribly, and in fact encouraged division of gaming availibility since it's nintendo characters can only be played
on their systems. Ironic that you can play sonic the hedge hog on a game cube.


Now, i think there is more then enough justification for my argument up there to say the SNES era wasn't this "golden era" you claim ; ).

Then again, it's just my opinion.

 

[gloco]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg The amiga, yes an expensive toy, was the predecessor by and large to sega genesis in the latish 80s to 16 bit console/arcade type gaming at home. You were priveledged to own one, but people i knew with them let me try them out, and yea, it was all it was cracked up to be, and hey a joystick works...

The Amiga was a computer that played games. Consoles and computers are two different species, especially in the 80's based on price alone. How many people did i know that owned an Amiga...no one. How many people owned a snes...everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Snes had perfect arcade translations? The 2 games you mentioned, well for considering those to be perfect arcade translations, it's pretty much said out of opinion, since i couldn't disagree more. The SF2 adaption was good, but not arcade perfect. The mortal kombat version though was corny, and not a similar experience. Yea it's about the games...

yes, Street Fighter 2 was perfect. Same music, sound effects, graphics were pretty much intact and the gameplay was perfectly intact, hence, it was a perfect arcade translation. MK, which i played a few times, seemed identical to the arcade version, but i recall no blood?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Your making an inference about my comments, but your wrong in this case. GENESIS was first. Are you awere of this? Super famicom was over in japan in 1990, but SNES didnt really materialize here until about 92 i believe, correct me if i'm wrong. SNES's main selling point was that it had superior hardware, as well as nintendo's franchise games. Genesis was in the late 80's (yea i remember, about 88, 89 when 16 bit was all the buzz). Nintendo came to america with snes a few years later.

I'm well aware that the Megadrive was released prior to the Super Famicom. I believe the snes came around in 1991. I went and checked the date on Final Fantasy II (the US version) and it's dated 1991. Link: http://www.nintendo.com/search?query...tegory=systems

You're wrong about the Snes's main selling point. It wasn't hardware, it was Super Mario World. That game sold the system at it's release, followed by various other top notch titles. The magazines back then would have you believe it was the hardware, but hot damn, when Sonic came out the Sega Genesis (an inferior system, based on hardware) flew off the shelves and it took Nintendo until 1994 to catch up and surpass the SNES in sales. Sega used Snes's slow cpu clock speed to mock the system and that definitely helped sell systems, thanks to the zippy Sonic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg The genesis did bring home the arcade, but the arcade scene was dissipating as the snes dominated the 16 bit system wars after 16 bit became second rate.

Both systems did bring arcade games to our homes, thanks to the fact that many publisher's released two player titles. I gotta agree that once these 16 bit consoles were on their way out (1994) arcade games were never the same again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg The whole notion of 16 bit, and snes was a part of this was "16 bit graphics" was arcade quality. It became less about the games, and more so about the graphics way before snes was available for purchase. For the few years both systems co-existed, snes had some unique and fun titles, but then again so did the genesis. It had the console defining games, e.g) Sonic the hedge hog, Phantasy Star, Joe Montana Football. SNES had most of the games genesis did, but a major part is that nintendo's franchise type characters and games were superior to sega's. If that was your thing fine, but it wasn't mine. Genesis had great games as well.themselves, you were calling sega arrogant? Nintendo might have still been the #1 console nowaday.

Good point, both companies screwed themselves as you mentioned re: Sony making the Playstation as an add-on to the snes then Nintendo turning around and dumping them. However, i think the snes has the lionshare of great titles (especially rpg's), sure, Phantasy Star 2 was great as was Shining in the Darkess and Shining Force, but a lot of rpg's available on the Megadrive simply never made it here and that's Sega of America's fault.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjg Let me address your "loyalty" issue regarding nintendo's major 3rd party support. Do you recalld uring the nes era that nintendo had a lockout chip forbidding developers to make their own cartridges? How conveniant, nintendo became rich off the dependancy of developers to not only develope for THEIR system, but to let THEM make the cartridges. Genius. Now the SNES was way late to hit the 16 bit arena, you know this to be true? Genesis had plenty of play in this furlough, it's undeniable. Nintendo had a great success with SNES because for a moment they were selling the best hardware, had support, and because they had their franchise gaming (i keep pushing it, but isn't that the biggest thing). Remember when the system was kinda judged by the bundeled software? Everyone remember super mario, and they loved it. Nintendo has alienated itself terribly, and in fact encouraged division of gaming availibility since it's nintendo characters can only be played on their systems. Ironic that you can play sonic the hedge hog on a game cube. Now, i think there is more then enough justification for my argument up there to say the SNES era wasn't this "golden era" you claim ; ). Then again, it's just my opinion.

I do know that Nintendo had very strict contracts with 3rd party publishers in regards to publishing titles and especially doling out royalties. Nintendo's franchise games did make them who they were, so that's obvious in regards to marketing their name.

I still consider it the golden era of gaming because that's when videogaming became a critical mass thing, where Nintendo and Sega, equally for a while, were selling millions of systems, millions of games and we're both making a lot of money. Nowadays, you have Sony, the king of consoles with a distant two competitors (Sorry, Xbox fans, but the system doesn't do squat for me). Sony just followed Nintendo's lead by buying up publishers and offering them lucrative deals, hence the rather sparse amount of titles from 3rd party publishers on any Nintendo system after the Snes. Yep, it's all opinion

 

[mjg]

please excuse my terrible writing, my points are all there, but kinda scrambled up... I had alot to say about it, but didn't present it well, sorry.

 

[mjg]

You will keep seeing my disagree on this being "the golden era" because
you are blanketing this terminology to encompass all of video gaming, rather then the "console golden era", or the "console" criticial mass you use this phrase well. Yea, this was the big bout that made home gaming the force to be reckonoed with, and ultimatly dismantled the arcade as the bastion of video gaming greatness, superiority, and it's entire instiution as a whole. Yea, this did happen in the mid 90's agreed.

Golden era of gaming? You are saying this so broad and using it to describe something that really deserves it's place in the mid to late 80's, when arcades developed their mommentum, and gaming became something that children couldn't live without. Yea, ADD became an issue around this time, as did alot of social and developmental problems kids are faced with nowadays. We are now zombies to video gaming as adults still? What happened? Where did gaming get all of this attention, when?

In the 90's, this is when gaming set it's course as a major industry as it is today, equalling if not surpassing the movie industry in development costs and grossing income at a similar capacity? The mid 90s?

Software houses such as square, konami, capcom, nintendo, sega (not the console divisions duh), hell even the framework for what they were, franchise familar characters, the notion of what an RPG is, hell even blazing graphics
and the idea of a home console.

You owe all of this to the 80's not the 90's. When i think of the 80's, it's unmistakable the rise of video game console as a home appliance definatly springs to mind. The 90's saw it develope into this critical mass, saw it split off into competitive practice, the demise of certain systems, the importance of blazing graphics, hell video game magazines? Who also can say that
online gaming and it's whole practice as utterly smashed the use of even a standalone console, and forced them to stick NIC's inside them to give people another justification that a console is even necessary in a home anymore...


Yea, the 90's saw it take a wierd crazy direction, the 80's were innocent, it was all new, and gaming was just very "special" at the time, it wasn't taken for granted, and gaming was all about the games. Also, apparantly we are arguing two things at once here,

snes vs genesis
when was this "golden era".

Just to address one vs the other, i think this all started when we disagreed about snes being the begining of this golden era.