[golov17]

mochill, Zen would be also about quantity if it wasn't that expensive. And about the quality, besides the sound, do you see quality?
I see cheap, very cheap.. look at that crappy cable.. I haven't seen cables looking that cheap for a while...


"I've discovered that fastening better that bolt from a 10$ copied design, would yield better results, now I'm going to charge you 100$ for this improvement."

I find this unfair, and sadly, nowadays, a large number of businesses work by performing such kind of speculations.

fleasbaby, yes, you are right. Now I realize that my chances of getting some explanations are rather slim.



I've checked the high end model from Sennheiser, MX985, and the lowest price, in my country, Romania, is exactly 110$.
A headphone that is built with metal, inspires quality, has palpable warranty and was built according to some international regulations for the materials( not in some unknown backyard).

Buy on eBay beautiful ear buds http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=290875912929&alt=web http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=201310802160&alt=web http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=151258329846&alt=web

 

[golov17]

If you do not like the Chinese, Korean and Japanese buy on the links above. Freedom for international markets.

 

[golov17]

But we prefer the VE for sound quality and ease of use, and not for the appearance.

 

[Expansion]

fleasbaby understood what I wanted to point out and what were my questions.
 
 
On the other hand, golov17, you are still replying with these robotic messages. I don't want to offend you, but this is what you are doing.
Like - buy, not like - not buy, go buy anything else, etc.
These are not answers to my questions.
 

  Sound Quality
It isn’t easy to describe the sound signature of Zen. If MX985 is about immersion and warm where TM7 is about lush and liveliness, then Zen will be about PRaT. If you don’t know about what PRaT means, well, it is basically the ‘toe-tapping’ factor in music. The kind of factor that makes a certain headphone more ‘danceable’ than other on the same music. One of the reason is perhaps Zen has one of the best bass impact and attack I have heard on any earbud. It is not purely a quantitative matter as Zen isn’t exactly what I’ll refer as bass heavy, but the transient is certainly excellent. The vocal range is actually slightly further away when compared to TM7 (and even more when compared to the very sweet MX985), though it holds on to its own and doesn’t sound thin at all. If anything, I’ll say Zen’s vocal range is still pretty good. It gives a sense of depth while still keep a good amount of texture. In contrast, I’ll say Yuin PK1 sounds much thinner in the mid-range. Treble is quite good as well. Not as sparkly as TM7 but I don’t sense any darkness or dullness either. Soundstage is somewhere between TM7 and MX985 - not the widest, but still above average.

 
 
I'm reading this description and for me, this guy is trying to say that all in all, they do not surpass TM7 or MX985 in any way, so he came up with this ideea of PRaT, that they are involving or something. Isn't immersion the same thing? Isn't liveliness the same thing?
He also says that they have good bass, with attack, but slightly recessed mids compared to the other 2, quite good treble(quite good, but you have 2 competitors here, nothing above them), above average soundstage.
I have a feeling that he is missing some mids, and some treble, and some soundstage expectations.
 
 
Ok, so in conclusion, we can all agree, that this headphone is there, in the same league with TM7 and MX985. Nothing spectacular though, except the bass, but on the other hand the other 2 outpass(smaller or larger margin, but outpass it) it on multiple other aspects, mids, treble, soundstage, etc.
 
Ok...so sound quality is there, similar for all of them, a matter of personal preference. Some will prefer the Zen, some the MX985, some TM7, but no one will reject any of them totally, since they play in the same SQ league.
 
 
Now comes my question. What gives the Zen the right to have the same price with a pair of MX985? Is there any super-expensive technology involved?
Besides the sound quality which is on par with the other 2 contenders, everything is below MX985: packing, quality of materials, warranty support, brand, etc.

 

[gibosi]

  I'm reading this description and for me, this guy is trying to say that all in all, they do not surpass TM7 or MX985 in any way, so he came up with this ideea of PRaT, that they are involving or something. Isn't immersion the same thing? Isn't liveliness the same thing?
He also says that they have good bass, with attack, but slightly recessed mids compared to the other 2, quite good treble(quite good, but you have 2 competitors here, nothing above them), above average soundstage.
I have a feeling that he is missing some mids, and some treble, and some soundstage expectations.
 
Now comes my question. What gives the Zen the right to have the same price with a pair of MX985? Is there any super-expensive technology involved?
Besides the sound quality which is on par with the other 2 contenders, everything is below MX985: packing, quality of materials, warranty support, brand, etc.

 
That description is a quote from a review by ClieOS, a well-known and respected reviewer here on headfi:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/759219/ve-a-new-and-impressive-earbuds-brand

 

[Expansion]

Gibosi, I know, we all know, because it's from the first post of this topic....

 

[ClieOS]

You are not incorrect to question why one earbud costs $10 while another costs $100 - there is no secret sauce, so to speak. If there is one, then it is probably just 'public opinion'. Same can be said to just about every headphone, even the very expensive one that cost a few thousands (if not more). I have not seen any headphone actually required a few thousands $$ worth of material to make, and many do cost very much less in manufacturing but sell for much more. But it is a business after all, and headphone is sort of a luxury item no less, and therefore the value of the item is really not dictated by the material nor the cost of manufacturing, but by how much people think it is fair to pay for. On another words, it is the demand that dictates the market value - thus manufacturer don't price their products by cost, but by estimating how much people are willing to pay. Of course, not everyone will agree on the exact value on every thing as we all value things differently. Some just looking for SQ, some wants unique design, maybe some will like it made out of precious metal, while perhaps some others like you are looking for all the above and even more (...super-expensive alien tech?) - that's all fine. You just need to make up your own judgement on what is the most important for you.
 
Then there is always the case of hyping - but hyping doesn't work that well when more and more people get to listen to it. So all you really need to do is to wait for more opinion to come out, especially since there is a tour going on.
 
On the other hand, I have not came across a headphone that is universally loved by every single person - so perhaps in a way every headphone is flawed in someone's ears. After all, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
 
p/s: I'll love to show you measurement instead of using words to describe since words is so limited, but then someone will have to buy me the tools, then make us agree on just one standard of 'goodness'. Unfortunately neither is happening anytime soon, so you'll have to suffer my limited describing power.

 

 

[ULUL]

This would be the first time I replied to a post of this nature in years.  Normally I just let posts like yours go its natural path. 
 
In this case, I'll simply note that if you 'demand' answers, you should go after PK Yuin which uses similar housing, and has been around for quite a while.  I note that they are doing quite well and have an avid following. 
 
UL
 
Quote:

   
This is an open forum, I think that I'm allowed to demand some answers here....
 
 
I think that the manufacturer of Zen's should cut open a pair of Mrice E100 and a pair of Zen's and explain what makes it 10 time more expensive.

 

[Expansion]

My bad, ''demand'' was not the proper word to choose. Asking questions, looking for answers.

 

[rymd]

  I understand that they sound good, but why are they so expensive?(Zen)
 
...
 
I want honest reviews, from people with experience, people that have a good overall view on a large portion of the market, people that can weigh all the aspects correctly, especially when I/the others don't have the option to test personally the product.
 

 
You should already know by now that price hardly correlates with cost of materials in audio. Unless you're buying a diy kit or something.
What's wrong with copying housing that's been proven to work? there are TONS of headphones that share the same housings, respected and not. All the DBA-02 clones, the FA-003/HM5 lookalikes, etc. These products are everywhere. If you're familiar with earbuds, you'll know Blox has already been using this same housing, and so have others like Hisoundaudio, Tingo, and many others. Even Sennheiser gets its MX500 housing from Foster, I believe. 
 
Yes, companies you've never heard of popping out of nowhere suddenly entering the game with high cost products is a little suspicious. But so many companies start out this way and have successfully made their way into the scene. Someone finds out about them, buys and reviews them, and tells other people about it. If the product is actually good, then the positive reviews from third parties will come in and you'll know it's not some scam. do you remember the yuin PK1?
 
If you want honest reviews from people with experience, then you should probably actually read this thread because many people who've been into earbuds for years have already posted their impressions. Also check out the product page for a few others who haven't posted in this thread I think. The OP himself has a thread with 60 reviewed earbuds. These people have experience with every price range, know the market very well, and had no clue about the company before this thread, so I don't know what more you could ask for. Look through the general earbud threads. They use their own money to blindly buy all sorts of unknown earbuds and report back on them. 
 
Quote:

 
Now comes my question. What gives the Zen the right to have the same price with a pair of MX985? Is there any super-expensive technology involved?
Besides the sound quality which is on par with the other 2 contenders, everything is below MX985: packing, quality of materials, warranty support, brand, etc.

dude if you're lucky enough to get an MX985 for $110 then do it. that's insane! I can't find the MX985 for less than $200 anywhere. I'm sure it's the same for most people. Buy some and resell them on ebay for a profit.
As for the TM7, those were discontinued long ago. In my view these are the cheapest of the very few highest-end earbuds out there, at least until maybe Blox decides to release another.
 

 
Answers for questions like: "What makes it so expensive compared to a 12$ Mrice E100?"
 
I think that the manufacturer of Zen's should cut open a pair of Mrice E100 and a pair of Zen's and explain what makes it 10 time more expensive.
 

The real question should be "how the hell can the Mrice E100 be as cheap as $12?"
The E100 is simply at the very top of sheer performance / price. Also, diminishing returns. A headphone that sounds "10 times better" than the E100 probably does not exist.

 

[golov17]

Proverbs 20:14 "Bad! Bad!" says the buyer. Then, as he goes away, he brags [about his bargain].

 

[ULUL]

 
Classic. 
 
Quote:

Proverbs 20:14 "Bad! Bad!" says the buyer. Then, as he goes away, he brags [about his bargain].

 

[golov17]

Ecclesiastes 1:9 "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun."

 

[RedJohn456]

I have had the zens in my ears since yesterday and the asura got a lot of ear time today in the evening. I honestly don't know what kind of sorcery this is but honestly I am shocked. I can't believe something this small can create such a big sound. The cohesion of the sound is astounding. Was doing a lot of A/B with The Baldoor E100 and it wasn't even close. The Zen spanked it so hard. The E100 sounds disjointed and lacks the cohesion between the treble midrange and bass.
 
With the Zens you get a nice balance. Particularly the E100's midrange and treble don't play nice together and a lot of EDM music feels disjointed. I had listened a lot to the E100 before the Zens arrived so I am familiar with it. Now having heard the Zen, I can't enjoy the E100 anymore, sounds boring and bland. 
 
Speaking of sheer technical prowess, Zen is objectively better and superior to e100 in every way except one. E100 doesn't need amp, thats about it  

 

[Toom]

I have had the zens in my ears since yesterday and the asura got a lot of ear time today in the evening. I honestly don't know what kind of sorcery this is but honestly I am shocked. I can't believe something this small can create such a big sound. The cohesion of the sound is astounding. Was doing a lot of A/B with The Baldoor E100 and it wasn't even close. The Zen spanked it so hard. The E100 sounds disjointed and lacks the cohesion between the treble midrange and bass.

With the Zens you get a nice balance. Particularly the E100's midrange and treble don't play nice together and a lot of EDM music feels disjointed. I had listened a lot to the E100 before the Zens arrived so I am familiar with it. Now having heard the Zen, I can't enjoy the E100 anymore, sounds boring and bland. 

Speaking of sheer technical prowess, Zen is objectively better and superior to e100 in every way except one. E100 doesn't need amp, thats about it  

Sounds great. Except the Zen is ten times the cost of the E100 even without the additional outlay on an amp. So for me, with my lack of funds, it remains an impossible temptation.

I want eagerly for a Monk to arrive on the scene.