[bcowen]

This is what I am shipping to Jason at Schiit for the 6sn7 equivalent tube shootout September 12th. Most likely he will use Saga's but it is feasible he can set up Lyr 3's and use pre-amp and headphone outs if he likes.

That's a big pile of schiit. Wait..I mean a big pile for Schiit.

Are some of those tubes longer than others, or is that just a photographic illusion? All the ones you sent me for the previous challenge were all the same length.

 

[bcowen]

OMG say it is not so Joe, um I mean Bill.

If you had told me I would have taken up a collection and got you something more listenable.

Well, if you're taking up a collection, I'd consider these more listenable. LOL!

 

[Paladin79]

That's a big pile of schiit. Wait..I mean a big pile for Schiit.

Are some of those tubes longer than others, or is that just a photographic illusion? All the ones you sent me for the previous challenge were all the same length.

They are all the same length, it is just an illusion, or 70's flashback that causes you to think otherwise. Your tubes were special of course, these going to Jason are more special, then finally there will be a no limits listen that many friends are donating tubes that will not be encased in PVC. This way some of the high end Chinese tubes, with their odd shapes, can go into the challenge as well. After that challenge, there will be nowhere else to go with 6sn7 equivalents and I will move on to other things.

 

[TK16]

Well, if you're taking up a collection, I'd consider these more listenable. LOL!

You need an electrostatic or something to that effect. Perhaps a mortgage on your house is possible?

 

[bcowen]

They are all the same length, it is just an illusion, or 70's flashback that causes you to think otherwise. Your tubes were special of course, these going to Jason are more special, then finally there will be a no limits listen that many friends are donating tubes that will not be encased in PVC. This way some of the high end Chinese tubes, with their odd shapes, can go into the challenge as well. After that challenge, there will be nowhere else to go with 6sn7 equivalents and I will move on to other things.

So that brings up the next logical question: how you gonna pry those Chinese tubes out of @TK16 's hands? He'll have nothing left to silkscreen.

 

[bcowen]

You need an electrostatic or something to that effect. Perhaps a mortgage on your house is possible?

Already have a mortgage. But I could get a home improvement loan. The Voce's would be in the house, and the home would thereby be improved. Right? Makes sense to me.

 

[TK16]

So that brings up the next logical question: how you gonna pry those Chinese tubes out of @TK16 's hands? He'll have nothing left to silkscreen.

I do still have the dead worm out 58 ECC82 Heerlen D-getter still. Opened an official return due to no communication from that awful seller. The quad I almost sniper bid, didn't thankfully as this clown has feedback with problems with it. If you look past the noise/microphonics and 510-1,500 Gm readings, it has good silk screening already. I can let this dead tube go for 85 shipped if anyone is interested.

 

[bcowen]

I do still have the dead worm out 58 ECC82 Heerlen D-getter still. Opened an official return due to no communication from that awful seller. The quad I almost sniper bid, didn't thankfully as this clown has feedback with problems with it. If you look past the noise/microphonics and 510-1,500 Gm readings, it has good silk screening already. I can let this dead tube go for 85 shipped if anyone is interested.

Re-silkscreen it as a GE and it will sound like true NOS.

 

[TK16]

I included a pic of my request for that tube I might be selling in the thread.No communication as well. Potential buyers please disregard the pic.
But seriously stay away from this seller classic-tech. Unless @bcowen sees some Western Electric 300B I think. Seller is highly NOT recommended.

Ad.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-PHILIPS...-GETTER-VACUUM-TUBE-TEST-STRONG-/273951625864

 

[bcowen]

I included a pic of my request for that tube I might be selling in the thread.No communication as well. Potential buyers please disregard the pic.
But seriously stay away from this seller classic-tech. Unless @bcowen sees some Western Electric 300B I think. Seller is highly NOT recommended.

Ad.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1x-PHILIPS...-GETTER-VACUUM-TUBE-TEST-STRONG-/273951625864

I'm only interested in GE 300B's. But thanks for thinking of me.

 

[bcowen]

So I just received four '58 Foton 6N8S's. Seeing as I already have umpteen million of them, why more? I have to experiment here for my own edification. Check out the beautiful soldering job on these pins:

I'm pretty sure my pin soldering skills are pretty lame, but I'm also sure that even my worst soldering attempts look better than this. None of the ribbed plate versions I have ('56 and prior) have pins that look *this* bad. So my question is simply are the '50's versions with ribbed plates really better than the non-ribbed, or did something else change in the process at the same time the plate design was changed? Maybe the non-ribbed sound just as good as the ribbed, but the soldering quality suffered a big decline when things changed which makes the tubes sound subjectively worse. So, I'm going to completely remove and replace the solder in 2 of these, and leave 2 as-is. I'll test them to see how they match up with GM (and I have some other '58's I can add to the mix if I don't get good matches with these 4). After re-doing the solder, I'm going to give all four tubes about 5 hours of burn-in in the Cary. Most truly unused tubes do have sonic changes initially (at least in the first few hours) so I want to rule that out as a variable as best possible. Then I'll put 100 hours on one of the re-soldered ones and one of the as-is ones, and then compare them to the two that have only 5 hours. And them compare those to some well broken-in (more than 100 hour) ribbed plate versions, one with reflowed (but not totally replaced) solder and one that hasn't been touched with a soldering iron. Why is this important? I have no friggin' idea, other than I wonder about it and I hate wondering about things.

 

[Paladin79]

So I just received four '58 Foton 6N8S's. Seeing as I already have umpteen million of them, why more? I have to experiment here for my own edification. Check out the beautiful soldering job on these pins:



I'm pretty sure my pin soldering skills are pretty lame, but I'm also sure that even my worst soldering attempts look better than this. None of the ribbed plate versions I have ('56 and prior) have pins that look *this* bad. So my question is simply are the '50's versions with ribbed plates really better than the non-ribbed, or did something else change in the process at the same time the plate design was changed? Maybe the non-ribbed sound just as good as the ribbed, but the soldering quality suffered a big decline when things changed which makes the tubes sound subjectively worse. So, I'm going to completely remove and replace the solder in 2 of these, and leave 2 as-is. I'll test them to see how they match up with GM (and I have some other '58's I can add to the mix if I don't get good matches with these 4). After re-doing the solder, I'm going to give all four tubes about 5 hours of burn-in in the Cary. Most truly unused tubes do have sonic changes initially (at least in the first few hours) so I want to rule that out as a variable as best possible. Then I'll put 100 hours on one of the re-soldered ones and one of the as-is ones, and then compare them to the two that have only 5 hours. And them compare those to some well broken-in (more than 100 hour) ribbed plate versions, one with reflowed (but not totally replaced) solder and one that hasn't been touched with a soldering iron. Why is this important? I have no friggin' idea, other than I wonder about it and I hate wondering about things.

I will say it again, the Russians did not have quality solder. Replacing it will solve the solder issues.
Using extra flux is important when doing this.
There may have been other changes after 1957 but hopefully they started using better solder at some point. Some of the Melz from the 1980's also had issues with solder of course so being 60 years old or 40 years old does not seem to change much.

I tried it on ribbed 1953’s as well.

 

[Wes S]

So I just received four '58 Foton 6N8S's. Seeing as I already have umpteen million of them, why more? I have to experiment here for my own edification. Check out the beautiful soldering job on these pins:



I'm pretty sure my pin soldering skills are pretty lame, but I'm also sure that even my worst soldering attempts look better than this. None of the ribbed plate versions I have ('56 and prior) have pins that look *this* bad. So my question is simply are the '50's versions with ribbed plates really better than the non-ribbed, or did something else change in the process at the same time the plate design was changed? Maybe the non-ribbed sound just as good as the ribbed, but the soldering quality suffered a big decline when things changed which makes the tubes sound subjectively worse. So, I'm going to completely remove and replace the solder in 2 of these, and leave 2 as-is. I'll test them to see how they match up with GM (and I have some other '58's I can add to the mix if I don't get good matches with these 4). After re-doing the solder, I'm going to give all four tubes about 5 hours of burn-in in the Cary. Most truly unused tubes do have sonic changes initially (at least in the first few hours) so I want to rule that out as a variable as best possible. Then I'll put 100 hours on one of the re-soldered ones and one of the as-is ones, and then compare them to the two that have only 5 hours. And them compare those to some well broken-in (more than 100 hour) ribbed plate versions, one with reflowed (but not totally replaced) solder and one that hasn't been touched with a soldering iron. Why is this important? I have no friggin' idea, other than I wonder about it and I hate wondering about things.

That is quite the experiment! Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I was lucky enough to get a few of the good 50's ribbed Fotons, back in the day, but never got around to giving them some serious hours. I may have to dust them off, and give them a try.

 

[bcowen]

I will say it again, the Russians did not have quality solder. Replacing it will solve the solder issues.

Yes, and because you've said that and because it makes total sense as a factor in the stupid-long break-in (maybe THE factor in the stupid long break-in) I'm now buying more friggin' Fotons to experiment with. So this is pretty much all your fault. I want to know if the ribbed plates really are better than the non-ribbed, or if the solder is what's skewing the sound rather than the plate structure. I have '57's, '58's, and '59's, and after looking closely at them, the pin soldering is visibly worse for those 3 years (with smooth plates) than what I see in the '55's and prior that I have (with ribbed plates). No dispute that the solder is an issue in all of them, just that in the later years it got even worse, at least visibly. I would normally consider a solder joint that looks like what I pictured above to be a cold joint. Amazing they work at all, really.

 

[bcowen]

That is quite the experiment! Thanks for keeping us in the loop. I was lucky enough to get a few of the good 50's ribbed Fotons, back in the day, but never got around to giving them some serious hours. I may have to dust them off, and give them a try.

Probably need to re-do the pins first.