Using receiver to drive headphones & other questions
Feb 22, 2012 at 3:43 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 85

yakapo

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Newbie here.  I just sold my old HD 280 pro's and was looking to upgrade.  I bought some HD 518's and also ordered some Q701's (both headphones are on their way now).  
 
I'm assuming I can use the 518's w/o amplification on my phone / laptop and use the q701's with my receiver (Pioneer VSX 1120).  I'm also going to return my Turtle beach X41's that I recently purchased and buy a cheapy used yamaha receiver that has the "silent cinema" feature built in for gaming.   
 
The pioneer has a 24 bit DAC.  The fiio E7 only has a 16 DAC right?  
 
In this review they used a receiver to drive the K702's.  It received good ratings too.   
 
 http://reviews.cnet.com/headphones/akg-k-702-open/4505-7877_7-33542260-2.html?tag=rvwBody;page2
 
Feb 22, 2012 at 4:00 PM Post #2 of 85
Good can choices.
 
I have the 518 and the Q 701.  Both sound good straight from my Yamama RX-A800 receiver.  I have a built in head phone amp in my CD recorder and was surprised that it made the Q 701 sing. I haven't tried my 518 with it, but my best guess is that any improvement would far less remarkable.
 
Feb 22, 2012 at 4:07 PM Post #3 of 85
Heya,
 
Nothing wrong with using a receiver for headphones. It's all we really had back in the day. And a lot of people still use vintage receivers over today's high-priced "head phone specific" stuff. The VSX 1120 is a fantastic receiver too. I have one as well. Sounds clean, plenty of power, drives my HE-500's even.
 
Very best,
 
Feb 22, 2012 at 6:48 PM Post #4 of 85
ive used my 1120 also to drive my headphones and have had no problems what so ever!!!  It comes in handy when the girl doesnt want to listen to my tv, i just plug in my headphones and away i go :)
 
Feb 22, 2012 at 11:09 PM Post #6 of 85
Should work perfectly fine; neither of the headphones you've selected are terribly complicated to drive - the Q701s will appreciate a *bit* more power (we're talking 1mW-ish continuous; that's peanuts for most portables anymore, but consider that many headphones will use a tenth or hundredth of that for the same output).
 
The last post makes absolutely no sense - "impedance resonance"??? Perhaps you're trying to describe what Meier talks about here:
http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm ??
 
 
Generally the reduction in voltage/power isn't a problem - the amplifier inside the receiver usually has enough gusto to overcome it (sure, it's inefficient - when you consider that, say, a Fiio E9 or CI Audio VHP-1 will use maybe a few watts at full volume driving a pair of cans, while something like a Yamaha RX-770 (it's an old stereo receiver) will draw around 30W, and something like a Denon AVR-4311 will pull down well over 100W (thank all those DSPs, not the amplifiers) for the same feat), and the FR variation may or may not be a problem (we won't get into damping factor beyond the explanation that it generally isn't worth bothering about); sure it can cause some anomalies, but it shouldn't fundamentally change the headphones. 
 
Basically, the short and sweet is, yes it's quite good enough (and I'm not disagreeing with Meier). Inefficient (you're probably going to be using many of those DSP features though, so that's a plus!), but good enough. 
 
As far as "24-bit DAC vs 16-bit DAC" - really does not matter unless you're playing back 24-bit material; are you? If not, who cares. If yes, then you want the 24-bit chip quite obviously (it's the only one that's compatible). 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Feb 22, 2012 at 11:22 PM Post #7 of 85
Thanks all for posting.  Good to know that the receiver will work.  I'll consider an amp for the Q701's later on down the road if I want to use them while sitting at my laptop.  The HD 518's arrive tomorrow and I'm looking forward to try them out.       
 
Feb 22, 2012 at 11:54 PM Post #8 of 85
The Yamaha RX-V667 and RX-A700 are the cheapest Yamaha receivers with the better speaker amplifiers.
I'm assuming your going to be running digital optical from the computer to the receiver?
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 2:42 AM Post #9 of 85
recapped/restored vintage= the only way to go :)  I just find them to be more versatile as I need to be able to run Stats off the speaker terminals and use TRS jacks for the Dynamics. Stylish as well as practical for me anyhow.
There are plenty of smaller form factor integrated amps floating around that look quite classy, so you don't necessarily need a full size receiver if you are never going to use the tuner part. You can always get a tuner later if need be. The smaller units also have a lower power usage depending upon models. Sound in each will vary of course you'll need to look into it. That way you can use them with speakers as well if you want and hook them up to the computer or whatever too still. Newer isn't necessarily better.
 
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 10:58 AM Post #10 of 85

 
Quote:
 
The last post makes absolutely no sense - "impedance resonance"??? Perhaps you're trying to describe what Meier talks about here:
http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-online.de/tipstricks.htm ??
 


With some headphones the resonance of the driver creates a large peak in impedance which causes a change in output when driven by a high impedance amp. Less voltage drop across the headphone output resistor at higher impedance = more volume plus poor damping. Duh.
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 6:09 PM Post #11 of 85
I probably should post this question on a different forum... but since some of you said you have the Pioneer VSX 1120, I'll ask here.  
 
My speakers are supposed to turn off when I use my headphones.  However, the pre outs don't get muted.  I am not using any of the speaker outputs on the receiver with exception to the center channel.  I'm using the front pre outs to go to a dedicated amp.  
 
An easy solution is to just turn off the amp.  However I'm curious if there's some option in the menu system to mute sound to the pre outs when the headphone jack is in use.  
 
---
 
By the way, I love the HD 518's.  I'm not qualified to write a detailed review, but I'll say this, my old backup headphones (JVC RX 900) are going straight to ebay.  The Q701's arrive next week.  =D   
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 6:26 PM Post #12 of 85


Quote:
I probably should post this question on a different forum... but since some of you said you have the Pioneer VSX 1120, I'll ask here.  
My speakers are supposed to turn off when I use my headphones.  However, the pre outs don't get muted.  I am not using any of the speaker outputs on the receiver with exception to the center channel.  I'm using the front pre outs to go to a dedicated amp.  
An easy solution is to just turn off the amp.  However I'm curious if there's some option in the menu system to mute sound to the pre outs when the headphone jack is in use.  
By the way, I love the HD 518's.  I'm not qualified to write a detailed review, but I'll say this, my old backup headphones (JVC RX 900) are going straight to ebay.  The Q701's arrive next week.  


I'm guess when the headphones are plugged in, the amplifiers are switched from powering the speakers to powering the headphone, so by default the speakers no longer receive any signal/power from the amplifiers.
I know you do not need all the amplifier power for the headphones, but most people would want the speakers silent when using headphones. So that's the way they designed the receivers.
And it's cheaper to manufacturer the receiver when you do not have to add an extra amplifier just for the headphones.
And the pre-outs signals are routed out of the receiver before they get to the amplifiers, so they are not affected by whatever is going on with the amplifiers.
So I'm guessing is no option for easily switching off the pre-outs, but you can always read the manual from cover to cover.
 
 
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 6:31 PM Post #13 of 85


Quote:
---  
By the way, I love the HD 518's.  I'm not qualified to write a detailed review, but I'll say this, my old backup headphones (JVC RX 900) are going straight to ebay.  The Q701's arrive next week.  =D   


I'm confidant that you will be impressed with you Q 701.  It will compliment you Senn and give you a new perspective on you music.  Driving the Q 701 is a step more demanding than the Senns.
 
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 9:02 PM Post #14 of 85

No need to be rude, really. The peak in impedance can cause a change in output when driven by any amplifier, it all depends on how the amplifier can handle that load. "Damping" is unlikely to matter in all but the most extreme cases.
Quote:
 
 
With some headphones the resonance of the driver creates a large peak in impedance which causes a change in output when driven by a high impedance amp. Less voltage drop across the headphone output resistor at higher impedance = more volume plus poor damping. Duh.



 
This is unfortunately not as universal as we'd like. Some receivers do exactly what is wanted, some don't, some have a switch that gets you half-way. What's the "speakers" button on the front do? (Some AVRs have a "speakers off" button). If you aren't getting Dolby Headphone or whatever from the receiver, can you plug the headphones into your power amp? (So put the receiver into stereo only, plug into the speaker amp, and it should mute everything). 
 
Quote:
I'm guess when the headphones are plugged in, the amplifiers are switched from powering the speakers to powering the headphone, so by default the speakers no longer receive any signal/power from the amplifiers.
I know you do not need all the amplifier power for the headphones, but most people would want the speakers silent when using headphones. So that's the way they designed the receivers.
And it's cheaper to manufacturer the receiver when you do not have to add an extra amplifier just for the headphones.
And the pre-outs signals are routed out of the receiver before they get to the amplifiers, so they are not affected by whatever is going on with the amplifiers.
So I'm guessing is no option for easily switching off the pre-outs, but you can always read the manual from cover to cover.
 
 



 
 
Feb 23, 2012 at 9:41 PM Post #15 of 85
The last post makes absolutely no sense - "impedance resonance"???
I thought that was rude so whatever.​
 ​
some have a switch that gets you half-way
 ​
What does this mean?
 
The headphone output of every amp I have owned ( all vintage ) use a large resistor in series with the headphone jack. Not a big problem with with high impedance headphones but makes a difference when impedance jumps from 50 to 250 ohms on a low impedance headphone.
 
 

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