[tokendog]

So the silver velvet pads came in and seem to reduce the bass a little bit on the Pro 900s.  I will need a lot more time comparison testing the black pads to the silver ones.  They seem to be the same thickness and size, but the silver pads seem to be less dense and I'm wondering if that is allowing some of the bass to be dispersed away from the ear?   Oddly enough, the silver ones seem to keep more outside noise from getting in - as its harder for me to hear noises around me than the black ones.
 
I will have to test it further when I have time to be 100% sure.

 

[Dougeefresh]

Then which's better? A e7+e9 combo or the arrow amp?
 
btw, I found the arrow 12he only at headphonia.eu , at $299.
is it worth the 100$ more, if it is indeed better?

E7/E9 is a better fit for using with a computer source because E7 works as a nice DAC. No matter how good your internal soundboard is (not the dedicated sound card) it is inferior to an external DAC and you will hear the difference. If portability without needing a DAC is your need then I think Arrow will be better due to higher quality of it compared to E7 which is adequate but not excellent with 900. I use my setup at work with a Mac Pro/E7/E9 and they perform very well. There is a big difference in quality between the internal DAC and E7, with more than enough power.

 

[Roller]

Quote:

E7/E9 is a better fit for using with a computer source because E7 works as a nice DAC. No matter how good your internal soundboard is (not the dedicated sound card) it is inferior to an external DAC and you will hear the difference. If portability without needing a DAC is your need then I think Arrow will be better due to higher quality of it compared to E7 which is adequate but not excellent with 900. I use my setup at work with a Mac Pro/E7/E9 and they perform very well. There is a big difference in quality between the internal DAC and E7, with more than enough power.

So which performs best with the Pro 900s? The E9 or the Arrow? As standalone amps alone, take DACs out of the equation, please.

 

[lazysleepyboi]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Then which's better? A e7+e9 combo or the arrow amp?
 
btw, I found the arrow 12he only at headphonia.eu , at $299.
is it worth the 100$ more, if it is indeed better?

E7/E9 is a better fit for using with a computer source because E7 works as a nice DAC. No matter how good your internal soundboard is (not the dedicated sound card) it is inferior to an external DAC and you will hear the difference. If portability without needing a DAC is your need then I think Arrow will be better due to higher quality of it compared to E7 which is adequate but not excellent with 900. I use my setup at work with a Mac Pro/E7/E9 and they perform very well. There is a big difference in quality between the internal DAC and E7, with more than enough power.

no matter what, an external dac sounds better than an internal soundcard? That doesn't sound right at all, i'm sorry, but that to me sounds like straight up guessing. It's not proven that external dacs are for sure better than internal soundcards. Are you saying that a 1000 dollar internal soundcard is going to sound worse than a 100 dollar external dac? seriously, when people use absolute language, be sure to check what you're referring to. It makes for a very bad argument when you use absolutes

 

[Roller]

Quote:

 


no matter what, an external dac sounds better than an internal soundcard? That doesn't sound right at all, i'm sorry, but that to me sounds like straight up guessing. It's not proven that external dacs are for sure better than internal soundcards. Are you saying that a 1000 dollar internal soundcard is going to sound worse than a 100 dollar external dac? seriously, when people use absolute language, be sure to check what you're referring to. It makes for a very bad argument when you use absolutes

He meant onboard audio chipsets, which are next to worthless. Not DACs, internal or external.

 

[Dougeefresh]

Quote:

He meant onboard audio chipsets, which are next to worthless. Not DACs, internal or external.

That would be correct.
I was anticipating someone would bring up the dedicated sound card so that's why I specifically said in my post:
 
"No matter how good your internal soundboard is (not the dedicated sound card) it is inferior to an external DAC and you will hear the difference."
 
I thought that was enough clarification but I guess I should've said on-board chipset. That was directed at people who don't know the difference between Realtek and X-Fi.
 
Thanks for clarifying that, Roller
 

 

[dadab12]

Switching back now to the pro 900 after using the HD800 for couple of days is really weird!
1st of all the comfort now is really an issue for me with the pro 900, you really don't feel the hd800 on your head, but switching back to the pro 900 revealed how uncomfortable they are,  I had no idea it was that significant.
2nd thing I noticed was the bass, it was really strong, boomy and round, the hd 800 bass is delicate, lean , tight and punchy..
the soundstahe of the pro 900 is surprisingly good! it's not competing with the HD 800 ofcourse but compared to closed cans, it's really good when comparing it now.
it's really hard for me to listen to the pro 900 right now, but you understand me right? jeez I don't know what i'm gonna do with them, i'm afraid the might pack on some dust, they are really fine headphones but the HD800 is a masterpiece

 

[lazysleepyboi]

Quote:

Switching back now to the pro 900 after using the HD800 for couple of days is really weird!
1st of all the comfort now is really an issue for me with the pro 900, you really don't feel the hd800 on your head, but switching back to the pro 900 revealed how uncomfortable they are,  I had no idea it was that significant.
2nd thing I noticed was the bass, it was really strong, boomy and round, the hd 800 bass is delicate, lean , tight and punchy..
the soundstahe of the pro 900 is surprisingly good! it's not competing with the HD 800 ofcourse but compared to closed cans, it's really good when comparing it now.
it's really hard for me to listen to the pro 900 right now, but you understand me right? jeez I don't know what i'm gonna do with them, i'm afraid the might pack on some dust, they are really fine headphones but the HD800 is a masterpiece

when you're paying 3 times the price, you really get a lot better performance. In my opinion, you're blind until you're exposed to new things. That's by people with beats say they're the best thing and that's why people that have stock ipod headphones stick with it. For your Pro 900s, you can either keep it if you're into collecting your headphone collection, or you can sell it on website. Just list it in the for sale forum and i'm sure someone would take up your offer. Some day i intend to get the HD800, but first thing first, HD650 =]

 

[lazysleepyboi]

Quote:

That would be correct.
I was anticipating someone would bring up the dedicated sound card so that's why I specifically said in my post:
 
"No matter how good your internal soundboard is (not the dedicated sound card) it is inferior to an external DAC and you will hear the difference."
 
I thought that was enough clarification but I guess I should've said on-board chipset. That was directed at people who don't know the difference between Realtek and X-Fi.
 
Thanks for clarifying that, Roller
 

i'm sorry for that, i guess i read over that part. I've looked across a few dac sections and most people say that Coaxial > usb. For me, that's true, but for others they say it's exactly the same. Some people often use their onboard coaxial port that came stock on the motherboard, and i'm not entirely sure if you get the same sound or not from an onboard coxial to a dedicated soundcard with a coaxial out. Care to clarify this for me? I intend to upgrade my desktop soon, and would love to hear whether it makes a big difference between onboard coaxial or dedicated soundcard with coaxial
 

 

[dadab12]

I think I'm gonna keep it and just have a collection, dunno why, but I like the idea -_-

 
Quote:

when you're paying 3 times the price, you really get a lot better performance. In my opinion, you're blind until you're exposed to new things. That's by people with beats say they're the best thing and that's why people that have stock ipod headphones stick with it. For your Pro 900s, you can either keep it if you're into collecting your headphone collection, or you can sell it on website. Just list it in the for sale forum and i'm sure someone would take up your offer. Some day i intend to get the HD800, but first thing first, HD650 =]

 

 

[shamrock134]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadab12 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
the hd 800 bass is delicate, lean , tight and punchy..

Sounds like the HD800 would make me a sad panda.

 
Still interested in where one would go from a D7000 or Pro900 for the next step in audiophile bassheadium. DX1000? LCD2? Thunderpants?
 

 

[Dougeefresh]

Quote:

i'm sorry for that, i guess i read over that part. I've looked across a few dac sections and most people say that Coaxial > usb. For me, that's true, but for others they say it's exactly the same. Some people often use their onboard coaxial port that came stock on the motherboard, and i'm not entirely sure if you get the same sound or not from an onboard coxial to a dedicated soundcard with a coaxial out. Care to clarify this for me? I intend to upgrade my desktop soon, and would love to hear whether it makes a big difference between onboard coaxial or dedicated soundcard with coaxial
 

When you say Coaxial, do you mean optical in/out, RCA cables, or digital coax? I have never seen a motherboard that comes standard with a coaxial out (or digital coax mostly for home theater applications). Most come with digital in/out (red laser), however.
 
If you will be using your computer, I only see two practical ways to go: with USB -> DAC -> AMP ->Headphone OR dedicated internal(or external, actually) sound card with DAC -> AMP (or straight to headphone using the sound card's amp) -> Headphone.
 
I never had a chance to compare the sound quality between a nice sound card and USB/DAC but I would think they wouldn't make much difference if at all, based on science.
Digital in/out, digital coax, and USB are all a digital source (1's and 0's) just like CDs so they all should output exactly the same info. It's the receiving end (DAC) that matters which processes the digital signal into analog so you can hear the music. RCA cables (red, white) are analog.
 
In any case, on-board sound (embedded on the motherboard) sucks just like all on-board Intel video sucks big time. This is why people pay upwards of $500 for premium video cards so they can play the latest games with all the bells and whistles.
 
If you play games and want to take advantage of all the premium sound card has to offer (surround sound) and also want to listen to music at the same time, I would go with a nice add-on sound card.
If music is the only thing you care about, I would go with a separate DAC/AMP since you can get a decent one for the amount of a nice sound card but also get to use it for other setups if needed (like E7 being portable).
 
 

 

[lazysleepyboi]

Quote:

When you say Coaxial, do you mean optical in/out, RCA cables, or digital coax? I have never seen a motherboard that comes standard with a coaxial out (or digital coax mostly for home theater applications). Most come with digital in/out (red laser), however.
 
If you will be using your computer, I only see two practical ways to go: with USB -> DAC -> AMP ->Headphone OR dedicated internal(or external, actually) sound card with DAC -> AMP (or straight to headphone using the sound card's amp) -> Headphone.
 
I never had a chance to compare the sound quality between a nice sound card and USB/DAC but I would think they wouldn't make much difference if at all, based on science.
Digital in/out, digital coax, and USB are all a digital source (1's and 0's) just like CDs so they all should output exactly the same info. It's the receiving end (DAC) that matters which processes the digital signal into analog so you can hear the music. RCA cables (red, white) are analog.
 
In any case, on-board sound (embedded on the motherboard) sucks just like all on-board Intel video sucks big time. This is why people pay upwards of $500 for premium video cards so they can play the latest games with all the bells and whistles.
 
If you play games and want to take advantage of all the premium sound card has to offer (surround sound) and also want to listen to music at the same time, I would go with a nice add-on sound card.
If music is the only thing you care about, I would go with a separate DAC/AMP since you can get a decent one for the amount of a nice sound card but also get to use it for other setups if needed (like E7 being portable).
 
 

my current rig is:
 
asus xonar st --> cambridge dac magic --> ultrasone pro 900
 
it does an adequate job of powering the pro 900s but i'm looking to add a tube amp to the mix, maybe little dot IV SE. 
 
I've tested the USB to dac magic vs Asus Xonar ST to dac magic, and i could hear a difference. It was subtle, and on some songs it was more apparent. Maybe not 200 dollars more apparent, but apparent nevertheless. The reason i got the asus xonar st was because i wanted the best sound i could get. My motherboard doesn't have a TOSLINK, Digital out, or anything of that nature. So i was left with getting a dedicated soundcard. I'm looking to upgrade my computer rig eventually, maybe in the next year, and i was planning to keep the xonar st at home if the sound quality would be the same as the sound coming off the motherboard from the TOSLINK. Like i said, this is for future purposes, but i don't think anyone has fully tackled whether using toslink from a motherboard is the same as the one from a dedicated soundcard. A lot of people have argued about which one sounds better, but it's usually split 50/50 when you look at everyone putting in their input. Just wondering if anyone here has tried out that theory or not.
 

 

[Roller]

Quote:

my current rig is:
 
asus xonar st --> cambridge dac magic --> ultrasone pro 900
 
it does an adequate job of powering the pro 900s but i'm looking to add a tube amp to the mix, maybe little dot IV SE. 
 
I've tested the USB to dac magic vs Asus Xonar ST to dac magic, and i could hear a difference. It was subtle, and on some songs it was more apparent. Maybe not 200 dollars more apparent, but apparent nevertheless. The reason i got the asus xonar st was because i wanted the best sound i could get. My motherboard doesn't have a TOSLINK, Digital out, or anything of that nature. So i was left with getting a dedicated soundcard. I'm looking to upgrade my computer rig eventually, maybe in the next year, and i was planning to keep the xonar st at home if the sound quality would be the same as the sound coming off the motherboard from the TOSLINK. Like i said, this is for future purposes, but i don't think anyone has fully tackled whether using toslink from a motherboard is the same as the one from a dedicated soundcard. A lot of people have argued about which one sounds better, but it's usually split 50/50 when you look at everyone putting in their input. Just wondering if anyone here has tried out that theory or not.
 

Well, there are actually quite a few motherboards with coax.
 
In theory, the sound going through the dirt cheap dirt (dirt repeated on purpose) shouldn't affect the audio stream on TOSLINK, SPDIF, and similar. Though, there are a few onboard chipsets that are reported to alter the bitstream, making it less than bitperfect. So, along with the peace of mind that a soundcard doing the job better, or doing it the right way, it also minimizes the whole EMI issue that's more bound to happen on onboard audio.

 

[Dougeefresh]

Quote:

my current rig is:
 
asus xonar st --> cambridge dac magic --> ultrasone pro 900
 
it does an adequate job of powering the pro 900s but i'm looking to add a tube amp to the mix, maybe little dot IV SE. 
 
I've tested the USB to dac magic vs Asus Xonar ST to dac magic, and i could hear a difference. It was subtle, and on some songs it was more apparent. Maybe not 200 dollars more apparent, but apparent nevertheless. The reason i got the asus xonar st was because i wanted the best sound i could get. My motherboard doesn't have a TOSLINK, Digital out, or anything of that nature. So i was left with getting a dedicated soundcard. I'm looking to upgrade my computer rig eventually, maybe in the next year, and i was planning to keep the xonar st at home if the sound quality would be the same as the sound coming off the motherboard from the TOSLINK. Like i said, this is for future purposes, but i don't think anyone has fully tackled whether using toslink from a motherboard is the same as the one from a dedicated soundcard. A lot of people have argued about which one sounds better, but it's usually split 50/50 when you look at everyone putting in their input. Just wondering if anyone here has tried out that theory or not.
 

What was the connection between Xonar and DacMagic? If it was a digital connection and you heard the difference, Xonar must be doing something to alter the sound before it sends the signal out to DacMagic. Like I said I am basing this on science and digital source is digital, USB and digital out (TOSLINK) should be identical bit for bit if fed the same source and no processing was occurring beforehand. If I am using an external DAC like you, I wouldn't bother with Xonar as it's just one more variable that can introduce unwanted problems. And, when you say best sound, if you mean true to the original recording on file, USB -> DAC would give you a better chance at that than USB -> Xonar -> DAC.