[catscratch]

Better tone > better detail. Yes, the ES2 was too mid-centric but we're talking about the ES3x. Either way it's pointless for us to speculate unless we've heard them all.

How are the upper mids handled on the UE11? Is there any upper midrange emphasis like the SR-404? That's the kind of coloration I can't stand.

Better yet, what else in the headphone world has a midrange tone like the UE11?

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Better tone > better detail. Yes, the ES2 was too mid-centric but we're talking about the ES3x. Either way it's pointless for us to speculate unless we've heard them all. How are the upper mids handled on the UE11? Is there any upper midrange emphasis like the SR-404? That's the kind of coloration I can't stand.

Heh, and I am trying to avoid the lower midrange coloration Westone 3 have. This is why I am interested in understanding how the UE11 fare in overall midrange response.
Agreed as to "better tone >> better detail", obviously. To me flat treble rather than having it recessed (or worse, overemphasized) is still of importance, though (generally speaking and not limiting ourselves on two custom IEMs we have not heard).

 

[digihead]

Good to see some healthy discussion.

I need a bit of time to formulate the next series of posts.

Specifically:
1) Straight outta jack (how do they sound unamped)
2) Where's my amp (portable amp synergy)
3) Who's your daddy (the king is...)

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heh, and I am trying to avoid the lower midrange coloration Westone 3 have. This is why I am interested in understanding how the UE11 fare in overall midrange response. Agreed as to "better tone >> better detail", obviously. To me flat treble rather than having it recessed (or worse, overemphasized) is still of importance, though (generally speaking and not limiting ourselves on two custom IEMs we have not heard).

W3 doesn't have that coloration when the fit is right. But, I only get that kind of fit with one type of eartip and it's very uncomfortable, impossible to wear for more than 15 minutes without serious pain. I think the main issue with the W3 is bad design with regards to fit, not the quality of the drivers or any kind of intentional mis-voicing.

I actually really like the W3 with the right fit. The only issue it has then is slightly too much upper bass and limited treble extension. With the wrong fit it's unlistenable - boomy, absent mids, harsh grating treble. Worse than stock iBuds. And of course with different tips you get all sorts of variatious in between the two extremes. Basically a mess, design-wise. No idea how it made it through QC, but I bet Westone is listening to all the feedback, good and bad.

That sense of "magic" that digihead described in the ES3x is what I hear out of the ES2, O2 Mk1, K340, HE90, basically any headphone that sounds like the sound signature I described on the last page. It's pretty simple really - just a combination of natural tone, enough speed/detail/separation to be transparent (which is more than nearly all dynamics can muster), a lack of any outstanding faults, and a liquid, flowing character to the sound. Basically slightly on the organic side of realism, with the fluid character only helping the system to disappear and the music to come through. Voice something like that and the magic is going to happen.

On the whole I think we're splitting hairs since it sounds like the two are basically on the same level. But then that's what this hobby is all about...

 

[antonyfirst]

I could get the right fit only with triflanges and that way I listened to them (upper bass-lower mids bloat). With any other tips that stayed in place I heard what you described by:
Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch With the wrong fit it's unlistenable - boomy, absent mids, harsh grating treble. Worse than stock iBuds.

So I don't know if the way I heard them was how they were intended to sound: from this point of view, they would be impossible to judge. One could still wonder if the W3 were an "unfinished" product due to the issues taking places with different fits (and the most common sound with reasonably comfortable fit).

Back on topic, if the midrange magic you are hearing with the ES2 is the same you hear with the Omega 2 out of the Opus 21, then I guess this seals the discussion: it's what I am after too.

But maybe the UE11 don't behave a lot worse in that regard.

You also nailed something very important here:

Quote:

Basically slightly on the organic side of realism, with the fluid character only helping the system to disappear and the music to come through. Voice something like that and the magic is going to happen.

The Stax monitor I have reacquired (the SRX MkIII Pro) are dead neutral. But they sounded crappy with the Gamma 1 dac I had. Digital glare, and ethereal, ghastly instruments rather than instrument "colored" the way they are. Only after I could set my Melior Bitstream up I could hear the kind of neutrality I wanted, with a very natural, analoguish and realistic sound which is different from "digital flatness". I couldn't say it better than your words, that for a portable system you need a fluid, organicly colored headphone that can let the player disappear, otherwise it won't sound really natural.

 

[Ricey20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hahaha, sadly I am a proud betrayer of dynamic cans too, but I am sure many people staring at the classfieds would think differently.

Same, I sold off ALL of my dynamics except for the ones on loan to friends a month ago or so lol.

 

[digihead]

Side note...

Basically slightly on the organic side of realism, with the fluid character only helping the system to disappear and the music to come through. Voice something like that and the magic is going to happen.

That is the sound of the ES3x. It is absolutely captivating. No way could I have said it better myself. Organic, realistic and magical.

 

[VoLTaG3]

Ok, How does the Westone ES3X compare to my Shure SE530's? I want a feel how the ES3X's sound...First and foremost does the Westone ES3X's improve upon the Shure SE530's marvelous midrange? Is at least equal to SE530's?...or better?

 

[digihead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoLTaG3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ok, How does the Westone ES3X compare to my Shure SE530's? I want a feel how the ES3X's sound...First and foremost does the Westone ES3X's improve upon the Shure SE530's marvelous midrange? Is at least equal to SE530's?...or better?

HeadphoneAddict would have to answer that one as I haven't heard the SE530's. I dont' see how its possible to have better midrange in any IEM than you get with the ES3x but again, I defer...

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

The SE530 were nice but cannot compare to the ES3X - it's like the SE530 mids are HDTV and the ES3X mids are the real thing. There is just so much more resolution and depth to them.

 

[VoLTaG3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SE530 were nice but cannot compare to the ES3X - it's like the SE530 mids are HDTV and the ES3X mids are the real thing. There is just so much more resolution and depth to them.

Ok I'm getting the feel...How is the BASS comparison? The ES3X's go deeper? has more impact? I don't need to know a HIGHS comparison because the SE530s are not known for great HIGHS.

 

[digihead]

The goosebump factor.

I am having a tough time in completing more comparisons because every time I listen to the ES3x I forget I am supposed to be doing a comparative listen. I have listened to more music since I got these than I thought possible. I will put on a CD and lose myself in the music. Often times I won't even look up or open my eyes until the CD is done. Then I end up thinking 'whoops....' and I end up doing it all over again.

I am a fan of music first. It is why I listen to headphones. I enjoy the headphone hobby because in listening to and enjoying different equipment, I listen to a lot of music. When the music is really good and the sound hits home and things are firing on all cylinders - I get goosebumps.

The Allman Brothers 'Hittin' The Note' from 2003 has long been one of my favorite CDs. Yes, Dickey isn't there but Warren and Derek Trucks are. There are songs on here that can make me feel like if I had to hang up my hat today I could feel like I had led a good life after hearing these songs. 'Old Before My Time' is a great example. There is so much emotion in the lyrics and the feeling that comes across in hearing those words sung by a guy that has led a hard life. The sound quality on this particular song is very nice as well. Listen to that tune on the ES3x makes me feel glad to be alive and appreciative of the things I have done and proud of what I have done and accomplished and realize how much more there is to do in life ('That road behind me now is paved with fool's gold, it's almost time for the victory dance...no more feeling guilty for things I never did, feelin nothin for my crime, living like a gypsy, dreamin like a kid has made me old before my time...)
I don't have that same type of feeling when listening to the same song on the UE11. The bass on the UE11 commands more attention vs. the mids commanding the attention on the ES3x. The technical capabilities of the UE11 shine through (bit more refined, bit better shaped and defined images, slightly larger soundstage) but at the cost of not giving me the same level of goosebumps.

In other words, the ES3x has a HUGE goosebump factor.

Once again, I had intended to switch out IEMs after each song on this CD. I listened to the first song with the UE11 then put on the ES3x. I was done with track six before I remembered I was supposed to be switching out. Even then I went ahead and listened to the rest of the CD before I went back to doing the comparison. The ES3x sound is that good, that captivating to me.

 

[VoLTaG3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead /img/forum/go_quote.gif The goosebump factor. I am having a tough time in completing more comparisons because every time I listen to the ES3x I forget I am supposed to be doing a comparative listen. I have listened to more music since I got these than I thought possible. I will put on a CD and lose myself in the music. Often times I won't even look up or open my eyes until the CD is done. Then I end up thinking 'whoops....' and I end up doing it all over again. I am a fan of music first. It is why I listen to headphones. I enjoy the headphone hobby because in listening to and enjoying different equipment, I listen to a lot of music. When the music is really good and the sound hits home and things are firing on all cylinders - I get goosebumps. The Allman Brothers 'Hittin' The Note' from 2003 has long been one of my favorite CDs. Yes, Dickey isn't there but Warren and Derek Trucks are. There are songs on here that can make me feel like if I had to hang up my hat today I could feel like I had led a good life after hearing these songs. 'Old Before My Time' is a great example. There is so much emotion in the lyrics and the feeling that comes across in hearing those words sung by a guy that has led a hard life. The sound quality on this particular song is very nice as well. Listen to that tune on the ES3x makes me feel glad to be alive and appreciative of the things I have done and proud of what I have done and accomplished and realize how much more there is to do in life ('That road behind me now is paved with fool's gold, it's almost time for the victory dance...no more feeling guilty for things I never did, feelin nothin for my crime, living like a gypsy, dreamin like a kid has made me old before my time...) I don't have that same type of feeling when listening to the same song on the UE11. The bass on the UE11 commands more attention vs. the mids commanding the attention on the ES3x. The technical capabilities of the UE11 shine through (bit more refined, bit better shaped and defined images, slightly larger soundstage) but at the cost of not giving me the same level of goosebumps. In other words, the ES3x has a HUGE goosebump factor. Once again, I had intended to switch out IEMs after each song on this CD. I listened to the first song with the UE11 then put on the ES3x. I was done with track six before I remembered I was supposed to be switching out. Even then I went ahead and listened to the rest of the CD before I went back to doing the comparison. The ES3x sound is that good, that captivating to me.

Good news....Keep it coming!!

 

[Aurven]

So who will be crowned King?

Sounds like the ES3x is digihead's favourite over the UE11s!

 

[GTL]

Damned I want a E3x! But 2 high end customs seem overkill......