Ultimate Ears UE-10 vs. Westone ES3X
Mar 4, 2009 at 5:12 PM Post #106 of 175
larry and digihead, what do you think about the ES3X in classical music? [all kinds and genres of classical]

and digihead, what do you think about the UE-10 in comparision?
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 5:31 PM Post #107 of 175
larry and digihead, what do you think about the ES3X in classical music? [all kinds and genres of classical]

and digihead, what do you think about the UE-10 in comparision?
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:01 PM Post #108 of 175
Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
larry and digihead, what do you think about the ES3X in classical music? [all kinds and genres of classical]

and digihead, what do you think about the UE-10 in comparision?



I compared them a while back in this thread. I don't listen to classical so I can't comment directly. Based solely on what you said you were looking for, the UE10 is a probably your best choice, although I am a bigger fan of the ES3x.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:11 PM Post #109 of 175
That's a good question pila45. I listen a lot to classical too. However, and maybe I'm gonna just have to listen for myself, it sounds like the ES3X may be less "mid-bassish" than the UE10s? In other words, is there a hump in the response between 60 - 100 Hz? My personal preference is for a flat mid-bass through mid-range presentation, especially for classical music.

I also like jazz and am very interested in hearing your take on that too.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM Post #110 of 175
the ue-10 are flatter than the ES3X which have "hump" in the mids as i understood.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:22 PM Post #111 of 175
I think my ES3X are wonderful with classical music, as well as any other genre I have including jazz, acoustic, folk, vocals, electronic and new age and rock, hip hip and pop.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:26 PM Post #112 of 175
Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
the ue-10 are flatter than the ES3X which have "hump" in the mids as i understood.


There is that reading too much into what is written again.

I see it as being posted that the UE-11 pro and ES3X are straddling the fence on the mids, with slightly more weight on one side or the other but not landing clearly on one side or the other. I understand the UE 10 will be closer to the UE 11 than ES3X, but I don't think anyone has said the ES3X have a "hump" in the mids. That implies to me something artificial or colored about the sound which I don't feel applies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by digihead
The comparison gets difficult because of reading too much into statements as Larry points out. For example, the UE11 mids are not recessed at all. However in direct comparison to the ES3x, the mids are not nearly as present and defined in the mix. What is strange is that the ES3x mids aren't overly forward nor are the UE11 mids recessed.


 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:30 PM Post #113 of 175
BTW, re the jazz comment, I listen mostly to "unplugged" varieties of jazz, e.g. wind, brass, stringed, piano, and percussion. Not as much of the electronic venue. Not sure if this helps, but I really enjoy female jazz vocalists like Holly Cole, Rebecca Pidgeon, Jacqui Naylor. On the classical side, I'm listening--right now--to William Grant Still, Videmus. I love well recorded piano and violin.

BTW, just received notice that my Pico will be shipped this week!
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 6:51 PM Post #114 of 175
That makes sense Larry, since a humped mid-bass can result--IMHO--in a warmish, colored sound accompanied with a false sense of weight on the bottom. However, I'm not picking that up from your descriptions. Hence, my choice.

My molds went in today for the ES3X, and Kyle (very helpful) at Westone indicated that they are working on a 5 - 7 day turnaround.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 7:10 PM Post #115 of 175
While some may prefer a flat and some may prefer a hump in the midbass. I wouldn't say one is more "accurate" than the other. Audio is about tricking us into hearing what we would hear live. Make no mistake it's definitely about trickery.

So, while a perfectly flat bass will give you exactly what is recorded, sometimes a hump will simulate what you would actually experience with live bass which is definitely a heaviness.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 7:12 PM Post #116 of 175
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr. Seraphim /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That makes sense Larry, since a humped mid-bass can result--IMHO--in a warmish, colored sound accompanied with a false sense of weight on the bottom. However, I'm not picking that up from your descriptions. Hence, my choice.

My molds went in today for the ES3X, and Kyle (very helpful) at Westone indicated that they are working on a 5 - 7 day turnaround.



Right. BTW, mine took 2 weeks - just in case they take longer than 5-7 days for you don't be disappointed. They started production about a week after I dropped off my impressions and the IEM were done by the end of the same week they started.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 8:53 PM Post #117 of 175
To be very clear...the mids are not 'humped' with the ES3x at all. They are beautifully in line with the rest of the music.

The ES3x mids as I have referenced many times are truly magical.
 
Mar 4, 2009 at 9:34 PM Post #119 of 175
I hope this isn’t too far off topic, and I apologize in advance re this post if it is. It’s also a bit long winded. So, again, please forgive me. I’m new to these types of forums, so it’s a learning curve for me.

Here's an interesting experience I once had with coloration (from some notes on an article I'm writing):

"During the ‘70’s I owned the original Koss ESP-9 electrostatic headphones (complete with frequency response curves and all). These were heavy, but not overbearing, and build like a tank. At that time, they were considered by many to be the finest headphone on the market. Also, at that time, one of the most popular audio systems was the Harmon Kardon Citation 11/12 separates, an amp/preamp combo (albeit I much preferred the sound of my Dynaco PAT4 preamp built from the kit), a Thorens TD-125 MkII fitted with the impressive Shure V15, and the famous Bose 901 loudspeakers. The Bose 901s used a massive equalization curve to achieve some resemblance of musical balance. The small active outboard equalizer was inserted in one of the recording loops on the preamp or between the preamp and amplifier.

The Koss electrostatic headphones were driven directly off the speaker terminals of the Citation 12 power amplifier. If one forgot to bypass the active equalizer for the Bose 901's, well, you can imagine what that meant. What was originally a very flat responding headphone took on the exact response imposed by the Bose equalizer!

One day coming back from track and field turnout (high school days) I put on my ESP-9's, and some Led Zepplin. Wow! It was fantastic! I couldn't remember hearing anything like this before! It was intoxicating, exhilarating, almost unbelievable! It was the same music, but Oh! So much better! (Maybe some of you have experienced something similar using drugs? :)

The moment lasted longer than it should have, and I was pulling out every album in my collection. To my astonishment, and let down, I later discovered what had happened. I forgot to bypass the equalizer. When I switched the unit out of the circuit, the sound collapsed, and I was deflated.

I never forgot that experience because it was my first realization how influenced I was by something so unreal. Like so much in life, "if something sounds too good to be true, it probably is." It’s hard coming down from an addiction, whether it’s hyped sound, or something else. Even more difficult was acclimating to reality. It was a long journey back. It was equally difficult accepting that what I had just heard was false, hyped, unnatural, and just plain wrong."

This is a very “extreme” example of coloration. The Bose 901 equalizer places up to 15db emphasis on the extremes of the frequency spectrum. Generally, what I'm referring to with the mid-bass hump is typically only 3 - 5db, sometimes more, when using ported loudspeakers. The effect is very appealing.

How much of a deviation correlates to coloration? I’m not black and white on the topic. I also think there are other considerations that contribute to colorations besides frequency response. My music system is currently comprised of all tube electronics, including the CDP, which should give a clue.

My hope is that the ES3X, returning to topic, is flatter. No, not perfect. From reading Digihead’s and Larry’s reflections on them, that “seems” be the case. I hope it is :).

Again, I am sorry for the long winded post. I hope it contributes to the overall discussion.
 
Mar 5, 2009 at 8:20 AM Post #120 of 175
Straight out of the Jack...

So...which custom IEM sounds best straight out of a headphone jack? For this question I used both the 3G iPhone (320k files) and 4g Nano (lossless).

Really, this is a quick one...they both sound great. Adding an amp to these custom IEMs definitely improves, tightens up and refines the sound. However, they really do sound great straight out of a headphone jack. Both excel equally well in this regard so there isn't a clear cut winner here between these two.

Now, I will throw this out there...neither the UE11 nor the ES3x are my favorite custom IEM straight out of the headphone jack. Rather, it is the dark horse in the race - the UE5c. These things sound amazing without an amp and I have never felt the need to add an amp into the mix. They were really meant to run out of a headphone jack and it shows in their sound. Fun, tight and articulate the UE5c are the headphones I carry with me daily for out and about usage. I feel like I am missing out on nothing when I plug them straight into my iPhone or Nano. When I listen to either the ES3x or the UE11 right out of the jack, I know that the sound can be improved with an amp. With the UE5c, I don't have that nagging feeling in the back of my mind. It is kind of liberating to know that I can use these custom IEMs to go totally portable.

Especially at their price point, the UE5c are your best choice if you are not interested in using an amp. If you later did want to add an amp, then the Tomahawk in combination with an ALO 18gague LOD has proven to be an absolutely wonderful combination for me. There is just something about the UE5c/Tomahawk combo that really gets things going. The vocals are incredible and the amp gives the headphones a better sense of space. I believe the Jena LOD contributes a bit of warmth to the sound which benefits the UE5c as well. Although, as I said, the UE5c don't need an amp, with this combo they can easily move up to the next level.
 

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