Ultimate Ears LIVE Impressions Thread
Jun 10, 2018 at 6:43 AM Post #31 of 156
One of my main points of interest with this piece is that it is partially DD - maybe this will give me something a little extra/different to the Roxanne. I've never owned a hybrid so don't know what quite to expect. I think the last time I heard one was the UM Merlin. Funnily enough, not that I'm expecting big things, but on a whim Ive ordered a ZS10 just to get a feel for it - but I don't expect them to be in the ballpark compared to other pieces that I've had.

As much as I love my Roxannes and the JH16s (the big bass boys), I don't think they are perfect (what is?) but I am guessing I am also itching to try something a little different. I love the U18 from what I've heard but fear that the impedance is too low for my wireless in ears pack on stage (they are under the minimum load of the pack). I've already shot an email to UE about my setup as the Live is right on the cusp also (but the right side, unlike the U18s).

the impedance on the UE Live is also low. on my DAP i have the volume turned to 75-82
whilst my UE 18+ (37 ohms) I have it at 90-102

I did like the JH lineup but I'm having sibilance issue with them so I couldn't really enjoy them.

Hope you'll like the hybrid offering of UE. In my audiophile journey, this hybrid has really impressed me
with its technicality, timbre and tuning.
 
Jun 10, 2018 at 7:17 AM Post #32 of 156
the impedance on the UE Live is also low. on my DAP i have the volume turned to 75-82
whilst my UE 18+ (37 ohms) I have it at 90-102

I did like the JH lineup but I'm having sibilance issue with them so I couldn't really enjoy them.

Hope you'll like the hybrid offering of UE. In my audiophile journey, this hybrid has really impressed me
with its technicality, timbre and tuning.
UE Lives should help with battery life then when on stage I guess.... which is a good thing from the point of view of that particular application.

Funny you should mention the sibilance issue - one singer I work with, the Roxannes really pick up on his esses! I thought it was an EQ issue at the desk until I got hold of the stems from one of the shows I did. Sounded great on the studio monitors - but listen on the Roxannes.... esssssssss!

Yeah - I am definitely going to make an effort to track some down so I can give them an audition before putting in an order.
 
Jun 10, 2018 at 12:01 PM Post #33 of 156
No DD vent, and I confirmed that with UE (just in case if I missed it since my shell is clear). I need to spend a little more time with these, plus in a middle of a number of other reviews with critical deadlines. One thing for sure, UE LIVE has a big and bold bass... and a bit of a rolled off treble.

But based on my initial impressions:

UE LIVE has a reversed J-shaped sound signature based on a boosted low end impact with a little lift in lower treble. The tonality is rich, smooth, lush, musical. This unique tuning combination yields a sound which is full of natural organic details that have more focus on warm smooth naturalness rather than high resolution or high clarity. Basically, you get a full bodied thicker sound with a very addictive bass slam, organic lush mids, and smooth controlled treble.
J-shaped? That's a sorta new term there, or a rediscovered one. Do you remember other IEMs that have a similar curve (not necessarily the same technicality etc.)? Trying to relate better.
 
Jun 10, 2018 at 2:08 PM Post #34 of 156
J-shaped? That's a sorta new term there, or a rediscovered one. Do you remember other IEMs that have a similar curve (not necessarily the same technicality etc.)? Trying to relate better.

Reversed J-shaped, that 8k peak gives it a little lift in comparison L-shaped :wink: Need to do more listening, comparison. That's why I hate initial impressions and try to stay away from it :) A few critical reviews to get through first before I start LIVE critical listening.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 12:49 AM Post #35 of 156
Hey guys, I just spent the past couple days listening to UE's new UE6D and Live models. I posted them initially on @flinkenick's shoot-out thread and I'm copying-and-pasting them here for convenience. As you can probably guess from my tone, I feel considerable hesitance in posting my thoughts, but I hope you guys can understand where I'm coming from (heck, as a huge fan of the UERR and the UE18+) and resist against any form of bashful criticism. I'd love to discuss my thoughts and elaborate on them - as per the intentions of this very forum and thread - especially with individuals like @twister6 who own the Live in its intended custom form. These are first impressions of universal demos at the end of the day, so please take them with a grain of salt. I feel like I've softened the blow enough, on with the show...

Ho boy... I might catch some flack for this one.

The Deezel Dash: In-Ear Edition - Ultimate Ears

My experience with UE's in-ears have been largely positive so far. The UERR is something I hope to be able to work with someday and I very nearly purchased the UE18+ upon first listen. Both exuded great tonal balance, excellent linearity and an especially well-done treble section; reserved, natural in tone yet articulate all the same. So, walking into Music Sanctuary to hear their latest models, I was understandably very excited. However, upon some listening, I began to ponder... then listen more, then ponder again. then listen even more, then ponder even... you get the idea. Among factors like burn-in (both mental and physical), I chose to take my time with these ones, especially knowing how excited people have been about them. And, after two ponderous days, I'm finally ready to post my impressions - for better or for worse.

IP67 Connector


To my surprise, the IP67 connector is extremely robust and well-thought-out. The IEMs don’t spin freely like with MMCX connectors, but you can certainly turn the connector within the socket to better angle the cable’s bend according to your ears/head. This turning mechanism is perfectly executed; neither too tight nor too loose. Plugging and unplugging can also be done confidently, akin to using a very small XLR connector. I can’t test the weather-resistant aspects of the cable unfortunately, but all-in-all, it’s a fantastic connector that they need to share with third-party cable manufacturers. Once/If their exclusivity deal with Linum runs out, I’d love to see other cable makers take advantage of this connector - especially for their more audiophile-inclined pieces.

Ultimate Ears UE6

The UE6 thrives on contrast. Clean-cut notes dominate the stage, further accentuated by the in-ear’s impressively black background. Perceived clarity and transparency is also high as a result, but the UE6 suffers from a lack of lower- to centre-midrange body. In its pursuit of precision, the UE6 compromises on the chestiness and density of vocals, leading them to sound a touch distant, even if they’re actually neutrally-placed in the stage. I can understand why it’s preferred for instruments like drums and percussion - because of its speed, clarity and snap factor - but vocals lack fleshiness, musicality, intimacy and power. Both male and female vocals lack harmonic body, coming off as surface-level and two-dimensional. Though, this results in its decently-expanded stage sounding significantly more spacious than it actually is. It’s a wide and stably-formed soundscape with excellent horizontal separation and imaging, perfect for reproducing the left-and-right overhead mics on a drum kit. It’s very much a purposeful tuning, even if it’s left lacking versatility in the process.

The UE6’s dynamic driver benefits its bass reproduction - guttural, visceral, but not overdone. Impact doesn’t come across as swift, but there’s a certain naturalness in the way kick drums thwack into the stage. It’s well-paced and realistic when aided by the low-end’s natural tone. The UE6’s bass decays impressively though, maintaining the transparency and cleanliness of the stage. Bass lines are expertly resolved and remain well-restrained. Sub-bass is more foundational in nature, though it does let a serving of rumble permeate the stage in tracks like Daft Punk’s “Lose Yourself to Dance.” The mid-bass proves more subtle than the sub-bass, so bass notes sound neither overtly thick nor overwhelmingly rich. Following this is a drop in the upper-bass, which then transitions to a significant valley at around 1kHz. As a result, bass notes benefit more from texture and bodily presence than clarity, but it’s an adequately executed low-end nonetheless - especially at the UE6’s price range.



The UE6 has a heavy upper-mid tilt. The lower-midrange has been significantly attenuated for precision’s sake; drawing a hard line between notes and the black background for superior contrast. Clarity and focus is high, but resolution takes a significant hit due to the missing lower frequencies. Vocals lack chestiness and density, leading to a hoarse and throat-y reproduction. Thankfully, an 8kHz dip prevents stridence, but their hard-edged, clear-cut nature does get grating after some time. Tone is on the neutral side - due to the warmth imparted from the bass - but the thinness and dryness of the upper-mids remain; distancing it from natural. Instruments - especially percussive ones - fare better. Snare drums and electric guitars benefit from the crackle of this tuning. A heavily relaxed lower-midrange also translates to an extreme centre-focus, surrounding midrange notes with tons of air and increasing perceived transparency. But, in any case, this is a midrange that requires lots of consideration prior to purchasing the UE6. Vocal lovers should immediately stray away, but fans of genres like metal and prog rock may find much to love in the UE6’s clarity-focused presentation.

The UE6’s saving grace is a relatively well-navigated lower-treble. A small 5kHz peak adds great solidity, airiness and clarity, whilst maintaining smoothness due to an 8kHz dip. Vocals sound immensely focused, but more crucially, hi-hats and cymbals sound crisp and energetic. Also contributing to this is an 11-12kHz peak. The resulting stage is stable and spacious, and the background impressively black. However, the UE6’s overall texture remains on the leaner side; unsuitable for longer listening sessions. Despite this detriment in tone, drums still sound admirably realistic in impact; a result of high micro-detail retrieval, solid articulation and speed. Snares, toms and cymbals punch with great energy; as a result of the bass as well. They might lack organicity and harmonic detail (most prevalent in tom decay), but the transparency and physicality it draws out from metal tracks - for example - is what the UE6 was tailor-made for in the first place.

Ultimate Ears Live

The UE Live is driven by an immensely heavy bass response. Mid-bass impact is extremely prominent; fractions of decibels away from overtaking the entire signature. As a result, the UE Live’s stage is heavily saturated with so-so headroom. Width and height are both average for a TOTL, but a lack of depth is what truly makes the Live sound as full as it does. Its presentation is upfront and energetic, living up fully to its name. However, its immense fullness leads to a lack of spherical-ness and spaciousness by comparison. This also results in an inability to appreciate the Live’s detail retrieval. There’s not enough headroom for the listener to sit back and appreciate the finer details, but the heavy bass response and 8kHz peak also prevents users from fully immersing into the Live’s atmosphere (like in the VE8 or Aether, for example). It resides in a strange in-between that’s neither spacious enough for transparency nor balanced enough for full engagement. I don’t know whether live musicians benefit from this sort of response, but critical listening with it feels out of place.

The Live’s dominant range is certainly its low-end. Ironically, the IEM’s overall tone isn’t warm or dark in any significant way, but a distracting amount of richness and impact steals your attention away from the rest of the frequency range. I can’t tell whether it’s a lack of speed, but there’s an absolute emphasis on punch over warmth. It's not muffled or veiled in a Beats sort of way, but constantly getting knacked in the cheek via kick drum is not a pleasurable way to listen to music. This leads to an extremely physical low-end that pumps energy in to the Live’s overall signature, with barely enough space and transparency to capacitate it. Likewise, texture and clarity down low is minimal; overridden by the sheer punchiness of the dynamic driver. Tone is decently realistic, palpable as the low-end slowly decays. But again, an egregious focus on impact over everything else - combined with the treble’s 8kHz peak - creates a fatiguingly distracting signature too saturated for both casual and critical listening. Maybe it’s a response that truly shines on stage, but a flagship product with this niche of a tuning is beyond strange in my humble opinion.



The Live has a relaxed lower-midrange around 500Hz, transitioning into a centre-midrange rise at 1kHz. This creates a dense vocal image that adds even more heft to the sonic landscape. Because of this, you can constantly feel the mid-bass and midrange quarrelling for attention as they fill the stage with borderline bloat. Overall tone is a warmish neutral, but both male and female vocals are coloured with a similar chestiness. A rise around 2-3kHz further adds light in the upper midrange, which prevents instruments from getting drowned out by the bass completely. Presence is stronger than on the UE6, but I can hardly call that a good thing if it ends up conflicting with the bass response. Overall. It’s a decently balanced midrange with great density, but it would’ve been better suited in a free-er stage, or a blacker background.

The Live’s treble is defined by a 5kHz dip, giving vocals and instruments a soft and feathered form of articulation. I’ve compared this before to a vocalist placing the microphone closer to his/her mouth, inducing a more harmonic and expansive delivery. This is followed by the Live’s main source of clarity: An 8kHz peak. It smartly avoids the more sensitive 6kHz region, but the resulting curve comes off unnatural and incoherent. The dip and the peak together end up sounding splashy, with a present yet unfocused sense of articulation. This region is by no means muffled or hazy, but it has a certain honky-ness which prevents it from achieving full realism. Simply put, detail delivery on the Live is not as coherent, linear or smooth as I expected - both at this price point and considering Ultimate Ears' outstanding pedigree. Artists belting are oftentimes comprised of mellow vowels followed by strident plosives. Following that is a linear upper-treble, which furthermore adds to the stage’s saturation; lacking enough air to open the stage, and almost suffocating in its own fullness. With that said, separation and imaging is adequate - if so-so for a flagship of this price - and stage stability is decent.

Closing Thoughts

So, as you can probably tell, I had mixed feelings - though ultimately understood - the UE6, but was immensely disappointed by the UE Live. It's not because of its technical performance (though it does have a sizeable role), but it's due to its odd and idiosyncratic tuning. I pride myself in being capable of accepting vastly different signatures if they have a clear-enough purpose, but the Live is something I still can't crack two days after my initial listen. My experience as a stage performer is close to none, so the jury’s still out on that front - the Music Sanctuary staff did mention a few stage musicians enjoying it. But unfortunately, as a $2000+ flagship product in both casual- and critical-listening use cases, the Live is something I simply cannot recommend based on this demo. Here’s to hoping the UE18+ Gen. 3 fares better when it gets here.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 2:00 AM Post #36 of 156
Hey guys, I just spent the past couple days listening to UE's new UE6D and Live models. I posted them initially on @flinkenick's shoot-out thread and I'm copying-and-pasting them here for convenience. As you can probably guess from my tone, I feel considerable hesitance in posting my thoughts, but I hope you guys can understand where I'm coming from (heck, as a huge fan of the UERR and the UE18+) and resist against any form of bashful criticism. I'd love to discuss my thoughts and elaborate on them - as per the intentions of this very forum and thread - especially with individuals like @twister6 who own the Live in its intended custom form. These are first impressions of universal demos at the end of the day, so please take them with a grain of salt. I feel like I've softened the blow enough, on with the show...

Ho boy... I might catch some flack for this one.

The Deezel Dash: In-Ear Edition - Ultimate Ears

My experience with UE's in-ears have been largely positive so far. The UERR is something I hope to be able to work with someday and I very nearly purchased the UE18+ upon first listen. Both exuded great tonal balance, excellent linearity and an especially well-done treble section; reserved, natural in tone yet articulate all the same. So, walking into Music Sanctuary to hear their latest models, I was understandably very excited. However, upon some listening, I began to ponder... then listen more, then ponder again. then listen even more, then ponder even... you get the idea. Among factors like burn-in (both mental and physical), I chose to take my time with these ones, especially knowing how excited people have been about them. And, after two ponderous days, I'm finally ready to post my impressions - for better or for worse.

IP67 Connector


To my surprise, the IP67 connector is extremely robust and well-thought-out. The IEMs don’t spin freely like with MMCX connectors, but you can certainly turn the connector within the socket to better angle the cable’s bend according to your ears/head. This turning mechanism is perfectly executed; neither too tight nor too loose. Plugging and unplugging can also be done confidently, akin to using a very small XLR connector. I can’t test the weather-resistant aspects of the cable unfortunately, but all-in-all, it’s a fantastic connector that they need to share with third-party cable manufacturers. Once/If their exclusivity deal with Linum runs out, I’d love to see other cable makers take advantage of this connector - especially for their more audiophile-inclined pieces.

Ultimate Ears UE6

The UE6 thrives on contrast. Clean-cut notes dominate the stage, further accentuated by the in-ear’s impressively black background. Perceived clarity and transparency is also high as a result, but the UE6 suffers from a lack of lower- to centre-midrange body. In its pursuit of precision, the UE6 compromises on the chestiness and density of vocals, leading them to sound a touch distant, even if they’re actually neutrally-placed in the stage. I can understand why it’s preferred for instruments like drums and percussion - because of its speed, clarity and snap factor - but vocals lack fleshiness, musicality, intimacy and power. Both male and female vocals lack harmonic body, coming off as surface-level and two-dimensional. Though, this results in its decently-expanded stage sounding significantly more spacious than it actually is. It’s a wide and stably-formed soundscape with excellent horizontal separation and imaging, perfect for reproducing the left-and-right overhead mics on a drum kit. It’s very much a purposeful tuning, even if it’s left lacking versatility in the process.

The UE6’s dynamic driver benefits its bass reproduction - guttural, visceral, but not overdone. Impact doesn’t come across as swift, but there’s a certain naturalness in the way kick drums thwack into the stage. It’s well-paced and realistic when aided by the low-end’s natural tone. The UE6’s bass decays impressively though, maintaining the transparency and cleanliness of the stage. Bass lines are expertly resolved and remain well-restrained. Sub-bass is more foundational in nature, though it does let a serving of rumble permeate the stage in tracks like Daft Punk’s “Lose Yourself to Dance.” The mid-bass proves more subtle than the sub-bass, so bass notes sound neither overtly thick nor overwhelmingly rich. Following this is a drop in the upper-bass, which then transitions to a significant valley at around 1kHz. As a result, bass notes benefit more from texture and bodily presence than clarity, but it’s an adequately executed low-end nonetheless - especially at the UE6’s price range.



The UE6 has a heavy upper-mid tilt. The lower-midrange has been significantly attenuated for precision’s sake; drawing a hard line between notes and the black background for superior contrast. Clarity and focus is high, but resolution takes a significant hit due to the missing lower frequencies. Vocals lack chestiness and density, leading to a hoarse and throat-y reproduction. Thankfully, an 8kHz dip prevents stridence, but their hard-edged, clear-cut nature does get grating after some time. Tone is on the neutral side - due to the warmth imparted from the bass - but the thinness and dryness of the upper-mids remain; distancing it from natural. Instruments - especially percussive ones - fare better. Snare drums and electric guitars benefit from the crackle of this tuning. A heavily relaxed lower-midrange also translates to an extreme centre-focus, surrounding midrange notes with tons of air and increasing perceived transparency. But, in any case, this is a midrange that requires lots of consideration prior to purchasing the UE6. Vocal lovers should immediately stray away, but fans of genres like metal and prog rock may find much to love in the UE6’s clarity-focused presentation.

The UE6’s saving grace is a relatively well-navigated lower-treble. A small 5kHz peak adds great solidity, airiness and clarity, whilst maintaining smoothness due to an 8kHz dip. Vocals sound immensely focused, but more crucially, hi-hats and cymbals sound crisp and energetic. Also contributing to this is an 11-12kHz peak. The resulting stage is stable and spacious, and the background impressively black. However, the UE6’s overall texture remains on the leaner side; unsuitable for longer listening sessions. Despite this detriment in tone, drums still sound admirably realistic in impact; a result of high micro-detail retrieval, solid articulation and speed. Snares, toms and cymbals punch with great energy; as a result of the bass as well. They might lack organicity and harmonic detail (most prevalent in tom decay), but the transparency and physicality it draws out from metal tracks - for example - is what the UE6 was tailor-made for in the first place.

Ultimate Ears Live

The UE Live is driven by an immensely heavy bass response. Mid-bass impact is extremely prominent; fractions of decibels away from overtaking the entire signature. As a result, the UE Live’s stage is heavily saturated with so-so headroom. Width and height are both average for a TOTL, but a lack of depth is what truly makes the Live sound as full as it does. Its presentation is upfront and energetic, living up fully to its name. However, its immense fullness leads to a lack of spherical-ness and spaciousness by comparison. This also results in an inability to appreciate the Live’s detail retrieval. There’s not enough headroom for the listener to sit back and appreciate the finer details, but the heavy bass response and 8kHz peak also prevents users from fully immersing into the Live’s atmosphere (like in the VE8 or Aether, for example). It resides in a strange in-between that’s neither spacious enough for transparency nor balanced enough for full engagement. I don’t know whether live musicians benefit from this sort of response, but critical listening with it feels out of place.

The Live’s dominant range is certainly its low-end. Ironically, the IEM’s overall tone isn’t warm or dark in any significant way, but a distracting amount of richness and impact steals your attention away from the rest of the frequency range. I can’t tell whether it’s a lack of speed, but there’s an absolute emphasis on punch over warmth. It's not muffled or veiled in a Beats sort of way, but constantly getting knacked in the cheek via kick drum is not a pleasurable way to listen to music. This leads to an extremely physical low-end that pumps energy in to the Live’s overall signature, with barely enough space and transparency to capacitate it. Likewise, texture and clarity down low is minimal; overridden by the sheer punchiness of the dynamic driver. Tone is decently realistic, palpable as the low-end slowly decays. But again, an egregious focus on impact over everything else - combined with the treble’s 8kHz peak - creates a fatiguingly distracting signature too saturated for both casual and critical listening. Maybe it’s a response that truly shines on stage, but a flagship product with this niche of a tuning is beyond strange in my humble opinion.



The Live has a relaxed lower-midrange around 500Hz, transitioning into a centre-midrange rise at 1kHz. This creates a dense vocal image that adds even more heft to the sonic landscape. Because of this, you can constantly feel the mid-bass and midrange quarrelling for attention as they fill the stage with borderline bloat. Overall tone is a warmish neutral, but both male and female vocals are coloured with a similar chestiness. A rise around 2-3kHz further adds light in the upper midrange, which prevents instruments from getting drowned out by the bass completely. Presence is stronger than on the UE6, but I can hardly call that a good thing if it ends up conflicting with the bass response. Overall. It’s a decently balanced midrange with great density, but it would’ve been better suited in a free-er stage, or a blacker background.

The Live’s treble is defined by a 5kHz dip, giving vocals and instruments a soft and feathered form of articulation. I’ve compared this before to a vocalist placing the microphone closer to his/her mouth, inducing a more harmonic and expansive delivery. This is followed by the Live’s main source of clarity: An 8kHz peak. It smartly avoids the more sensitive 6kHz region, but the resulting curve comes off unnatural and incoherent. The dip and the peak together end up sounding splashy, with a present yet unfocused sense of articulation. This region is by no means muffled or hazy, but it has a certain honky-ness which prevents it from achieving full realism. Simply put, detail delivery on the Live is not as coherent, linear or smooth as I expected - both at this price point and considering Ultimate Ears' outstanding pedigree. Artists belting are oftentimes comprised of mellow vowels followed by strident plosives. Following that is a linear upper-treble, which furthermore adds to the stage’s saturation; lacking enough air to open the stage, and almost suffocating in its own fullness. With that said, separation and imaging is adequate - if so-so for a flagship of this price - and stage stability is decent.

Closing Thoughts

So, as you can probably tell, I had mixed feelings - though ultimately understood - the UE6, but was immensely disappointed by the UE Live. It's not because of its technical performance (though it does have a sizeable role), but it's due to its odd and idiosyncratic tuning. I pride myself in being capable of accepting vastly different signatures if they have a clear-enough purpose, but the Live is something I still can't crack two days after my initial listen. My experience as a stage performer is close to none, so the jury’s still out on that front - the Music Sanctuary staff did mention a few stage musicians enjoying it. But unfortunately, as a $2000+ flagship product in both casual- and critical-listening use cases, the Live is something I simply cannot recommend based on this demo. Here’s to hoping the UE18+ Gen. 3 fares better when it gets here.
Very well done Daniel! I think you articulate your concerns very clearly and constructively, and that (I should imagine) is the sort of feedback that Ultimate Ears can do something with. Either in explaining their tuning choices, or perhaps re-evaluating it internally.

While I am disappointed by how you describe the Live, I am very curious to hear it for myself, seeing how I am the sort of person who can appreciate "Marmite" IEMs. Here's hoping for Canjam London. :D
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 2:14 AM Post #37 of 156
Very well done Daniel! I think you articulate your concerns very clearly and constructively, and that (I should imagine) is the sort of feedback that Ultimate Ears can do something with. Either in explaining their tuning choices, or perhaps re-evaluating it internally.

While I am disappointed by how you describe the Live, I am very curious to hear it for myself, seeing how I am the sort of person who can appreciate "Marmite" IEMs. Here's hoping for Canjam London. :D

Thanks, man. I’d be open to trying the Live again with a different cable or after immense burn-in, but my feelings about it are pretty much dead-set at this point. From Spiral Dots, to SpinFits, to Final Audio tips, it was just not meant to be...
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 2:52 AM Post #38 of 156
Here's to throw my hat into the ring as well. The Live did not sit well with me. I would even dare say that the UE6 exceeded the Live in technical ability, not as a testament to how great the UE6 is but to how much the Live sounds to be underperforming especially at its price bracket.

Though huge disclaimer is that I'm just taking it easy since it's my first week back home so I have barely 20 minutes of ear time on them. I could very well be wrong with my initial impressions. But right now, I am having a very very hard time visualising the Live playing with the established big boys.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 7:36 AM Post #39 of 156
I had the chance to try the UE Live on the 9th and my impressions were that its tuning was an attempt at imitating a stadium loudspeaker setup (hence the Live name) to give the performing artist an idea of how they sound to the audience. They are truly monitoring IEMs above all else, I liked the sound as I like warm tunings, especially ones that can reach imto lower bass frequencies, but it's definitely not an IEM I'd ever use for critical listening.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 8:05 AM Post #40 of 156
I had the chance to try the UE Live on the 9th and my impressions were that its tuning was an attempt at imitating a stadium loudspeaker setup (hence the Live name) to give the performing artist an idea of how they sound to the audience. They are truly monitoring IEMs above all else, I liked the sound as I like warm tunings, especially ones that can reach imto lower bass frequencies, but it's definitely not an IEM I'd ever use for critical listening.

My problem with the Live isn't a lack of clarity or neutrality. I'm fine with bass-emphasised tunings, as has become common in the recent hybrid resurgence. However, the Live's decision to combine this bass hump with a dense and chesty midrange - as well as a feathered and smoothed-out top-end - is what doesn't make sense to me. A stadium loudspeaker set-up in my experience would have more focused and precise articulation (which means less energy at 1kHz and a rise at 5kHz or so; omitting the 8kHz peak in the process) and more headroom (via - again - a relaxed 500-1kHz range and an optional slight lift at 12kHz). What I'm hearing with the Live is a conflict of interest; too much going on in too little space. If you want an emphasised low-end, then give it space to bloom; if you want a dense vocal image, then don't pair it with a thump-y bass. I don't know how differently a stage performer hears things, but as an audiophile, monitor engineer and front-of-house engineer, I'm well and truly perplexed.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 8:51 AM Post #41 of 156
@Deezel177 and @crinacle, guys, both of you echoed some of my comments I sent to @Mike Dias after I had LIVE on burn in for almost a week and spent a little bit of time listening to get first impressions. I went into my usual audiophile-analysis mode, comparing to other iems in a similar price range, suggesting EQ adjustment to UE, etc. I think the problem is that we are so used to flagship status of other releases where it pushes the envelope of performance with wider soundstage, better detail retrieval, higher resolution, etc., and that drives our expectations for other releases. I thought LIVE going to be UE18+ Pro with DD and higher resolution, that was my biased expectation. So, my first impression was critical as well, you can ask Mike, I was rather brutal. Then, he told me something, to think of LIVE in terms of ice cream flavors. I took a step back, and spent a little more time just listening to LIVE without comparing to other flagship iems I have access to for review purpose. LIVE is not for audiophiles who want to go into deep analysis of the sound resolution or detail retrieval. It's a fun tuned, smooth, lush, rich, full bodied sound with more emphasis on low end and an interesting choice of 8k treble peak to balance it out, while the rest of the treble is rolled off. Not blowing smoke up UE arse, but after awhile of listening, the bass became quite addictive.

As a bit of off topic, I made a mistake last year when I received Prelude iem for testing, wasn't too crazy about it due to an extreme treble roll off and thick lows/mids, and sent it back without even reviewing, without giving it a chance. Didn't think of it as "another ice cream" flavor which others might like. But anyway...

I think the tuning of LIVE will be geared more toward mucians, rather than audiophiles who into critical listening. And btw, regarding soundstage, another interesting observation drawn from my personal experience of CIEMs vs UIEMs (when having a chance to test both versions of EURR, Harmony, and A/U12). I always found UIEM version, which I assume that's a version of LIVE you tested at Music Sanctuary, to be narrower in soundstage expansion when compared to the same CIEM. Perhaps it's the distance between the eardrums and drivers, ear canal anatomy, etc. But, while not super wide, I think LIVE has a decent above the average soundstage width. It's closer to intimate level of staging, but still wide enough, probably geared more toward musicians as well since stage performers want to have a more focused imaging for a better sound monitoring.
 
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Jun 11, 2018 at 9:17 AM Post #42 of 156
@Deezel177 and @crinacle, guys, both of you echoed some of my comments I sent to @Mike Dias after I had LIVE on burn in for almost a week and spent a little bit of time listening to get first impressions. I went into my usual audiophile-analysis mode, comparing to other iems in a similar price range, suggesting EQ adjustment to UE, etc. I think the problem is that we are so used to flagship status of other releases where it pushes the envelope of performance with wider soundstage, better detail retrieval, higher resolution, etc., and that drives our expectations for other releases. I thought LIVE going to be UE18+ Pro with DD and higher resolution, that was my biased expectation. So, my first impression was critical as well, you can ask Mike, I was rather brutal. Then, he told me something, to think of LIVE in terms of ice cream flavors. I took a step back, and spent a little more time just listening to LIVE without comparing to other flagship iems I have access to for review purpose. LIVE is not for audiophiles who want to go into deep analysis of the sound resolution or detail retrieval. It's a fun tuned, smooth, lush, rich, full bodied sound with more emphasis on low end and an interesting choice of 8k treble peak to balance it out, while the rest of the treble is rolled off. Not blowing smoke up UE arse, but after awhile of listening, the bass became quite addictive.

As a bit of off topic, I made a mistake last year when I received Prelude iem for testing, hated it with passion due to an extreme treble roll off and thick lows/mids, and sent it back without even reviewing, without giving it a chance. Didn't think of it as "another ice cream" flavor which others might like. But anyway...

I think the tuning of LIVE will be geared more toward mucians, rather than audiophiles who into critical listening. And btw, regarding soundstage, another interesting observation drawn from my personal experience of CIEMs vs UIEMs (when having a chance to test both versions of EURR, Harmony, and A/U12). I always found UIEM version, which I assume that's a version of LIVE you tested at Music Sanctuary, to be narrower in soundstage expansion when compared to the same CIEM. Perhaps it's the distance between the eardrums and drivers, ear canal anatomy, etc. But, while not super wide, I think LIVE has a decent above the average soundstage width. It's closer to intimate level of staging, but still wide enough, probably geared more toward musicians as well since stage performers want to have a more focused imaging for a better sound monitoring.
That is really interesting and now I desperately want to hear the Live. It sounds very similar to what I experienced with the Rhapsodio Zombie, which I know @crinacle as well as a few others were not too impressed with, but the more I listened to them, the more I loved the unapologetic amount of fun I got from them. Different ice cream flavours is a very good analogy there, although I used the term "marmite" for the Zombie to indicate that difference myself.
 
Jun 11, 2018 at 9:45 AM Post #43 of 156
@twister6

18+ w/ DD is also how I was expecting it. Didn't turn out that way but still seeing some things familiar with it which I mentioned on my impressions.

You are right that we need to see things the other way too when comparing flagships. The "flavor" that the company offers. It's either we appreciate it or not then maybe look somewhere else.

I was surprised on how they sound the moment I gave my first listen to them as what I've mentioned too
they reminded me or I find them silar with the ie800/s in terms of bass and warmth.

So I gave them burn in and things improved a bit in my case. Ime, I also had to find the correct insertion of it which turned out it wasn't that really super bassy for me. And yeah, I really like the bass on these maybe it's just my ears, but despite the mid bass hump im surprised it's controlled, tight and fast. Addicting and satisfying for me, not too much.

For me they are musical and fun at the same time and very engaging experience that the dd and ba gives me.

Will you be able to compare the UIEM and CIEM please. So that I know if it's really sibilant. Coz this affects my decision.

I had this experience with the K10 and the k10U's sound was different for me. My friend's k10 which I can fit to my ears doesnt sound sibilant and sound more solid.
 
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Jun 11, 2018 at 10:31 AM Post #44 of 156
I was expecting "a lot", but wasn't too specific with my expections i.e. 18+ with DD bass. I get the whole flavour argument but from the short time I had with the Live, it simply didn't sound "natural" or anywhere close and that ruined all enjoyment for me instantly. Especially when compared with all of the great new stuff that had graced my ears in the last 24 hours.

I suppose, if given enough time, I would eventually get used to the Live's sound. But isn't that the case with everything? This kind of fun-tuned, musical, analog, smooth, lush, rich yadda-yadda kind of sound has been done by many other top end IEMs with better technical ability, so in all honesty the Live's price tag is not at all justified in this case.

Those were my first impressions though, based off a very short listening session. I will definitely go back and give it another chance. I really doubt my impressions will do a complete 180 though.
 
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Jun 11, 2018 at 12:42 PM Post #45 of 156
@Deezel177 and @crinacle, guys, both of you echoed some of my comments I sent to @Mike Dias after I had LIVE on burn in for almost a week and spent a little bit of time listening to get first impressions. I went into my usual audiophile-analysis mode, comparing to other iems in a similar price range, suggesting EQ adjustment to UE, etc. I think the problem is that we are so used to flagship status of other releases where it pushes the envelope of performance with wider soundstage, better detail retrieval, higher resolution, etc., and that drives our expectations for other releases. I thought LIVE going to be UE18+ Pro with DD and higher resolution, that was my biased expectation. So, my first impression was critical as well, you can ask Mike, I was rather brutal. Then, he told me something, to think of LIVE in terms of ice cream flavors. I took a step back, and spent a little more time just listening to LIVE without comparing to other flagship iems I have access to for review purpose. LIVE is not for audiophiles who want to go into deep analysis of the sound resolution or detail retrieval. It's a fun tuned, smooth, lush, rich, full bodied sound with more emphasis on low end and an interesting choice of 8k treble peak to balance it out, while the rest of the treble is rolled off. Not blowing smoke up UE arse, but after awhile of listening, the bass became quite addictive.

As a bit of off topic, I made a mistake last year when I received Prelude iem for testing, hated it with passion due to an extreme treble roll off and thick lows/mids, and sent it back without even reviewing, without giving it a chance. Didn't think of it as "another ice cream" flavor which others might like. But anyway...

I think the tuning of LIVE will be geared more toward mucians, rather than audiophiles who into critical listening. And btw, regarding soundstage, another interesting observation drawn from my personal experience of CIEMs vs UIEMs (when having a chance to test both versions of EURR, Harmony, and A/U12). I always found UIEM version, which I assume that's a version of LIVE you tested at Music Sanctuary, to be narrower in soundstage expansion when compared to the same CIEM. Perhaps it's the distance between the eardrums and drivers, ear canal anatomy, etc. But, while not super wide, I think LIVE has a decent above the average soundstage width. It's closer to intimate level of staging, but still wide enough, probably geared more toward musicians as well since stage performers want to have a more focused imaging for a better sound monitoring.

First, let me say that I completely understand where you're coming from. This is exactly how I've been talking to passionate critics of the EE Phantom and - funny you should mention it - the Warbler Prelude. They take major issue with the lack of apparent detail, perceivable transparency, treble sparkle, etc., and I've had to repeatedly explain that their merits lie in coherency, linearity and tonal accuracy. In the pursuit of their ultimate goal, it becomes clear that some (not all) of their cons can be considered necessary compromises. To a certain degree, to achieve their intended signatures, they couldn't have been tuned any other way. An example that both of them exhibit is a relaxed upper-treble to achieve a natural tone, which some people dislike because of insufficient openness, air and/or micro-detail. Of course, I'm not blaming anyone for having different tastes - and I'm not saying those IEMs should be universally loved either - but it's undeniable; to achieve their respective timbres, those compromises were necessary. Then, there are other cons like the Phantom's sensitive lower-treble peak or the Prelude's roll-off that maybe could've been circumvented one way or another, but you get the idea.

My problem with the Live is I simply couldn't figure out why any of its compromises were necessary. Most here say that it's the addictiveness of the bass, but is this truly the only way that bass could've possibly existed? If you had kept the dynamic driver tuned exactly as it was, couldn't you have tuned the mids and treble in any other way to make them more linear/co-operative without losing any bit of enjoyment from the bass? Pursuing a unique signature whilst maximising technical performance is something I heavily applaud. Like you and many others out there, I've become somewhat bored of the recent trend; sacrificing tone for sheer detail (especially in TOTLs). But, a unique signature has to be at least somewhat rooted in either enjoyment or reality. I can't take the time to take in - or digest, or adapt - to the Live's signature, because the impact of the bass plus the the chesty 1kHz bump plus the 8kHz peak fatigue my ears near instantly; shattering my suspension of disbelief and my benefit of a doubt. Neither can I find a track whilst listening to the Live do I think to myself, "This is how the track is supposed to sound." I'm not ruling out the possibility that the Live could be the perfect IEM for someone out there. But in my opinion, at its price, either it makes too many unnecessary compromises to achieve an intended signature, or the frequency response it shoots for was too out there to begin with. Again, I'm not saying people aren't allowed to like it; I'm just explaining why my reasons for disliking it are more complex than just not being able to appreciate its flavour.
 
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