[twister6]

First, let me say that I completely understand where you're coming from. This is exactly how I've been talking to passionate critics of the EE Phantom and - funny you should mention it - the Warbler Prelude. They take major issue with the lack of apparent detail, perceivable transparency, treble sparkle, etc., and I've had to repeatedly explain that their merits lie in coherency, linearity and tonal accuracy. In the pursuit of their ultimate goal, it becomes clear that some (not all) of their cons can be considered necessary compromises. To a certain degree, to achieve their intended signatures, they couldn't have been tuned any other way. An example that both of them exhibit is a relaxed upper-treble to achieve a natural tone, which some people dislike because of insufficient openness, air and/or micro-detail. Of course, I'm not blaming anyone for having different tastes - and I'm not saying those IEMs should be universally loved either - but it's undeniable; to achieve their respective timbres, those compromises were necessary. Then, there are other cons like the Phantom's sensitive lower-treble peak or the Prelude's roll-off that maybe could've been circumvented one way or another, but you get the idea.

My problem with the Live is I simply couldn't figure out why any of its compromises were necessary. Most here say that it's the addictiveness of the bass, but is this truly the only way that bass could've possibly existed? If you had kept the dynamic driver tuned exactly as it was, couldn't you have tuned the mids and treble in any other way to make them more linear/co-operative without losing any bit of enjoyment from the bass? Pursuing a unique signature whilst maximising technical performance is something I heavily applaud. Like you and many others out there, I've become somewhat bored of the recent trend; sacrificing tone for sheer detail (especially in TOTLs). But, a unique signature has to be at least somewhat rooted in either enjoyment or reality. I can't take the time to take in - or digest, or adapt - to the Live's signature, because the impact of the bass plus the the chesty 1kHz bump plus the 8kHz peak fatigue my ears near instantly; shattering my suspension of disbelief and my benefit of a doubt. Neither can I find a track whilst listening to the Live do I think to myself, "This is how the track is supposed to sound." I'm not ruling out the possibility that the Live could be the perfect IEM for someone out there. But in my opinion, at its price, either it makes too many unnecessary compromises to achieve an intended signature, or the frequency response it shoots for was too out there to begin with. Again, I'm not saying people aren't allowed to like it; I'm just explaining why my reasons for disliking it are more complex than just not being able to appreciate its flavour.

I have talked to a few musicians, and they often tell me that to appreciate x or y sound sig, you have to listen to live (no pun intended) recording of specific drummers. See, we all had expectations of how the next UE flagship is going to sound, but we often analyze it from audiophile perspective. I actually been thinking about it, and how some companies rely on a feedback from audiophiles while showcasing their prototypes at the shows to continue with fine tuning, UE relying on feedback of sound designers, sound engineers, and producers from Capitol Records and also draw feedback from stage musicians. I'm not giving UE a free path or defending the signature, and definitely have no intentions to hype the product. When it comes time to write a full review I will describe what I hear and how I hear it, let people read it, along with other impressions, and decide if it's their cup of tea or not. But I'm trying to be more open minded and give them the benefit of the doubt because obviously this tuning was perfected based on some visition, some reference, and feedback from an audience who were the target of that tuning. Now I'm curious to get a list of what UE recommends in order to appreciate LIVE tuning and to compare it against likes of other flagships which I have in my current review rotation.

Btw, I captured FR multiple times and run a frequency sweep multiple times, there is no 1k bump in there, rather a dip around 800 Hz There is a bump closer to 2k and another bigger spike around 7.8k

 

[tienbasse]

Funny to see how people these days have limited acceptation of anything that isn't flat/linear or whatever floats their boat...

The only flaw in my opinion is how UE has failed to explain how they tuned the Live before release, so people expecting "reference sound" (at least their fantasy of reference) wouldn't be disappointed.

Your comments made me interested in demo-ing this model, because they underline some similarities with Custom Fibae ME.

Sometimes, fun signatures are just there... for fun!
Critical listening = nonsensical view of the mind.

 

[Deezel177]

I have talked to a few musicians, and they often tell me that to appreciate x or y sound sig, you have to listen to live (no pun intended) recording of specific drummers. See, we all had expectations of how the next UE flagship is going to sound, but we often analyze it from audiophile perspective. I actually been thinking about it, and how some companies rely on a feedback from audiophiles while showcasing their prototypes at the shows to continue with fine tuning, UE relying on feedback of sound designers, sound engineers, and producers from Capitol Records and also draw feedback from stage musicians. I'm not giving UE a free path or defending the signature, and definitely have no intentions to hype the product. When it comes time to write a full review I will describe what I hear and how I hear it, let people read it, along with other impressions, and decide if it's their cup of tea or not. But I'm trying to be more open minded and give them the benefit of the doubt because obviously this tuning was perfected based on some visition, some reference, and feedback from an audience who were the target of that tuning. Now I'm curious to get a list of what UE recommends in order to appreciate LIVE tuning and to compare it against likes of other flagships which I have in my current review rotation.

Btw, I captured FR multiple times and run a frequency sweep multiple times, there is no 1k bump in there, rather a dip around 800 Hz There is a bump closer to 2k and another bigger spike around 7.8k

Sure, that's definitely fair. I'm still willing to chalk what I heard to a uni-versus-custom difference or a lack of sufficient burn-in (both mental and physical; though again, I can barely stand listening to it long enough to let my brain adapt to it). So, once the guys at MS get it to where it ought to be, I'd love to give it a second chance. I also have stems recorded from a drum kit I hear live at least six times a week, so I'll give it a shot in those scenarios next time. Thanks for catching my error on the peak's location. The chestiness of the vocal range reminded me of the UM Mentor V3, Jomo Jazz and Custom Art Harmony 8.2, but I mistakenly recalled the 1kHz mark as around where they were centred instead of where they started. Looking back at my impressions of them both, it would be more correct to say 1-2kHz bump rather than 1kHz bump. My mistake; my apologies.

 

[Deezel177]

Funny to see how people these days have limited acceptation of anything that isn't flat/linear or whatever floats their boat...

The only flaw in my opinion is how UE has failed to explain how they tuned the Live before release, so people expecting "reference sound" (at least their fantasy of reference) wouldn't be disappointed.

Your comments made me interested in demo-ing this model, because they underline some similarities with Custom Fibae ME.

Sometimes, fun signatures are just there... for fun!
Critical listening = nonsensical view of the mind.

I must repeat that I did not listen to the Live with any pre-conceived notions of its sonics at all (apart from a Facebook comment from Warren P. Chi along the lines of, "They do what the Tia Fourte's do and more!") But, I can confirm that them and the ME are more different than they are alike. Just wait 'til you hear it.

 

[crinacle]

Funny to see how people these days have limited acceptation of anything that isn't flat/linear or whatever floats their boat...

The only flaw in my opinion is how UE has failed to explain how they tuned the Live before release, so people expecting "reference sound" (at least their fantasy of reference) wouldn't be disappointed.

Your comments made me interested in demo-ing this model, because they underline some similarities with Custom Fibae ME.

Sometimes, fun signatures are just there... for fun!
Critical listening = nonsensical view of the mind.

You have completely missed the point of the discussion above. The issue is not with the signature of the Live; as a reviewer I couldn't care less if it was V-shaped, mid centric, flat or whatever. I remove my personal preference from the equation and go from there.

The issue here is that the Live has a signature that really isn't that unique and its technical ability and performance is severely lacking for what you'd expect for a $2000+ IEM.

Funny to see how people these days have limited acceptance of anything that isn't a positive review or whatever criticism that rocks the boat...

 

[twister6]

Sure, that's definitely fair. I'm still willing to chalk what I heard to a uni-versus-custom difference or a lack of sufficient burn-in (both mental and physical; though again, I can barely stand listening to it long enough to let my brain adapt to it). So, once the guys at MS get it to where it ought to be, I'd love to give it a second chance. I also have stems recorded from a drum kit I hear live at least six times a week, so I'll give it a shot in those scenarios next time. Thanks for catching my error on the peak's location. The chestiness of the vocal range reminded me of the UM Mentor V3, Jomo Jazz and Custom Art Harmony 8.2, but I mistakenly recalled the 1kHz mark as around where they were centred instead of where they started. Looking back at my impressions of them both, it would be more correct to say 1-2kHz bump rather than 1kHz bump. My mistake; my apologies.

Don't be silly, no reason to apologize, Daniel I'm only quoting numbers cause I took measurements (Veritas) and then ran a few sweep cycles to confirm it. I can't keep up with you guys and your golden ears. Also, don't expect me to post FRs in public cause it only generates more controversy (@crinacle knows that ). I'm usually confident in peaks and valleys, but not so much with my calibration of relative amplitude.

 

[Deezel177]

Don't be silly, no reason to apologize, Daniel I'm only quoting numbers cause I took measurements (Veritas) and then ran a few sweep cycles to confirm it. I can't keep up with you guys and your golden ears. Also, don't expect me to post FRs in public cause it only generates more controversy (@crinacle knows that ). I'm usually confident in peaks and valleys, but not so much with my calibration of relative amplitude.

Cheer, man. My ears are more silver on their way to gold. Looking back at my posts after a good night's sleep, I'm probably not giving UE and their collaborators enough credit. I'll give it one last shot with burn-in and your stems idea. So until then, UE and co. have a window; they better not blow it.

 

[soullinker20]

Cheer, man. My ears are more silver on their way to gold. Looking back at my posts after a good night's sleep, I'm probably not giving UE and their collaborators enough credit. I'll give it one last shot with burn-in and your stems idea. So until then, UE and co. have a window; they better not blow it.

try also playing with the fit if it has effects on you

I realize that I might need to buy ear tips to use when auditioning stuffs

 

[Deezel177]

try also playing with the fit if it has effects on you

I realize that I might need to buy ear tips to use when auditioning stuffs

I initially listened with Final Audio tips, then switched to Spiral Dots. They only got bass-y-er. The only ones I've yet to try are SpinFits and Mandarins, so we'll see how that goes.

 

[soullinker20]

I initially listened with Final Audio tips, then switched to Spiral Dots. They only got bass-y-er. The only ones I've yet to try are SpinFits and Mandarins, so we'll see how that goes.

let us know, I'm approaching 100 hrs of burn in and see if I can tolerate sibilance. From there will I make my decision if not then I might be looking on a long way journey to save for Soundwriter I guess

 

[RollsDownWindowsManually]

Question: do you think the ue 18+ is a safer buy than live for someone looking for an air travel/exercise ciem? Have a futursonics mg5hx but would prefer more treble energy and better staging (sounds very tunnel-liketand conpressed, altgough this couls be the molds) although I do like its bass. I'm dying for something closer to my hd800 or ether flow in ciem, although I know it's not possible. Can anyone briefly compare UE live to the UE 18+?

 

[Deezel177]

Question: do you think the ue 18+ is a safer buy than live for someone looking for an air travel/exercise ciem? Have a futursonics mg5hx but would prefer more treble energy and better staging (sounds very tunnel-liketand conpressed, altgough this couls be the molds) although I do like its bass. I'm dying for something closer to my hd800 or ether flow in ciem, although I know it's not possible. Can anyone briefly compare UE live to the UE 18+?

If you’re looking for more treble energy as an exercise IEM, the UE6 would probably be your best option. The UE18+ (Gen. 2; I haven’t tried the Gen. 3) is a more natural-sounding monitor, much more similar to the Ether Flow than the HD800. I’ve heard reports that the Gen. 3 is brighter than the Gen. 2, so that maybe what you’re after. Though, I haven’t heard it yet so I can’t confirm.

 

[twister6]

Question: do you think the ue 18+ is a safer buy than live for someone looking for an air travel/exercise ciem? Have a futursonics mg5hx but would prefer more treble energy and better staging (sounds very tunnel-liketand conpressed, altgough this couls be the molds) although I do like its bass. I'm dying for something closer to my hd800 or ether flow in ciem, although I know it's not possible. Can anyone briefly compare UE live to the UE 18+?

I can compare these two later today, probably tonight when I get home after work (EST here). And I'm sure others will chime in.

Not familiar with futuresonic, but your reference to Senns HD800 and more treble energy automatically puts you in ue18+ pro category, so that's an easy decision.

 

[soullinker20]

Question: do you think the ue 18+ is a safer buy than live for someone looking for an air travel/exercise ciem? Have a futursonics mg5hx but would prefer more treble energy and better staging (sounds very tunnel-liketand conpressed, altgough this couls be the molds) although I do like its bass. I'm dying for something closer to my hd800 or ether flow in ciem, although I know it's not possible. Can anyone briefly compare UE live to the UE 18+?

hi I think the 18+ would be a bit close to the hd800's treble energy.

 

[deafdoorknob]

Question: do you think the ue 18+ is a safer buy than live for someone looking for an air travel/exercise ciem? Have a futursonics mg5hx but would prefer more treble energy and better staging (sounds very tunnel-liketand conpressed, altgough this couls be the molds) although I do like its bass. I'm dying for something closer to my hd800 or ether flow in ciem, although I know it's not possible. Can anyone briefly compare UE live to the UE 18+?

if you like that futuresonics bass, have you auditioned the EE nemesis or legend X? THEY are like futursonics + proper treble and staging.