[Shaffer]

I don't know how this thread is helping anyone. :rolleyes:

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Im just trying to have a conversation and maybe learn a little bit about something I have ignored for years.
 
You seem to say a lot and very little at the same time. 

Sometimes, as in this case - true. For the reasons stated.
 
But I will continue with phono cartridge loading as promised - it will reveal the mechanisms behind various designs of phono cartridges. There are many ways to Rome - yet some are more and some less friendly to records in the long run. It is nothing new - but has generally been ignored both in press and online for a considerable amount of time, so a bit of dusting off might remind older users of analog what they might have forgotten over the years and explain why there is an audible difference between two cartridges, although they measure for all practical purposes the same - within audio band. 
 
Trouble is, for a cartridge/arm/turntable = record player to be sucessful, the first thing it has to do well is to perform at least reasonably well below 20 Hz and above 20 kHz - if it gets at least a *pass* mark in these tests, it is likely it will have VERY good performance in the audible (officially accepted, 20 Hz-20 kHz) range.

 

[arcorob]

  Here is another question.
 
How sensitive are the stylus's and what material are they primarily made of?  Say you barely tap it with your finger by accident or scrape your shirt against it etc?
 
Something that crossed my mind today.

Might I suggest - go to a turntable forum? Few things
1) You can break a stylus with your finger if rubbed in the wrong direction - your shirt for sure..bent or broken cantilevers happen to the best of us..I have done it on a brand new $800 cart and I have a friend who has WAYYYYY Top end equipment....has done it to TWO in one day - one costing $2000 and another over $3000
 
2) You can watch my basic turntable setup video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnskL8Pe6fk
 
3) You can go to a TRUE turntable forum on audiokarma.org
NO DISPARAGEMENT to this site, this site is awesome. But that forum is very strongly geared to analog, turntables and will be a better resource (and less diatribes on turntables far beyond what you want to or are ready to hear).
 
The problem I see here is someone asks how do I measure the tracking weight on a particular arm/cart and they get a the history of turntables since Neanderthal including the science of resonance, etc. It is not helpful.
 
It is analogous to a young person going to take a flying lesson for the first time and the instructor taking him or her to a 747 and saying "Here, lets learn about the electronics and avionics in the cockpit". Not helpful. 

 

[CH23]

I don't know how this thread is helping anyone.

it has it's moments, if you're new to turntablism, threads like these will help a lot.

 

[Dillan]

 
Might I suggest - go to a turntable forum? Few things
1) You can break a stylus with your finger if rubbed in the wrong direction - your shirt for sure..bent or broken cantilevers happen to the best of us..I have done it on a brand new $800 cart and I have a friend who has WAYYYYY Top end equipment....has done it to TWO in one day - one costing $2000 and another over $3000
 
2) You can watch my basic turntable setup video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnskL8Pe6fk
 
3) You can go to a TRUE turntable forum on audiokarma.org
NO DISPARAGEMENT to this site, this site is awesome. But that forum is very strongly geared to analog, turntables and will be a better resource (and less diatribes on turntables far beyond what you want to or are ready to hear).

 
Thanks a lot for the info! 
 
And yea I have watched your video more than once and it was def. helpful - Because of it, my recent turntable purchase was put together smoothly and accurately. 
 
Also thanks for the link to audiokarma, I will create an account and starting reading all I can there.  I really like to learn about new things, especially when it pertains to my passionate hobby!
 
 

 
The problem I see here is someone asks how do I measure the tracking weight on a particular arm/cart and they get a the history of turntables since Neanderthal including the science of resonance, etc. It is not helpful.
 
It is analogous to a young person going to take a flying lesson for the first time and the instructor taking him or her to a 747 and saying "Here, lets learn about the electronics and avionics in the cockpit". Not helpful. 
 

 
 
Yea.. I appreciate any help of course.. But.. yea..

 

 

[Dillan]

On another note. 
 
I have been purchasing a lot of vinyl lp's lately and have been really loving every minute of listening to them. 
 
Such a beautiful sound in my current setup.  Very happy with the new additions.

 

 

[analogsurviver]

 
Might I suggest - go to a turntable forum? Few things
1) You can break a stylus with your finger if rubbed in the wrong direction - your shirt for sure..bent or broken cantilevers happen to the best of us..I have done it on a brand new $800 cart and I have a friend who has WAYYYYY Top end equipment....has done it to TWO in one day - one costing $2000 and another over $3000
 
2) You can watch my basic turntable setup video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnskL8Pe6fk
 
3) You can go to a TRUE turntable forum on audiokarma.org
NO DISPARAGEMENT to this site, this site is awesome. But that forum is very strongly geared to analog, turntables and will be a better resource (and less diatribes on turntables far beyond what you want to or are ready to hear).
 
The problem I see here is someone asks how do I measure the tracking weight on a particular arm/cart and they get a the history of turntables since Neanderthal including the science of resonance, etc. It is not helpful.
 
It is analogous to a young person going to take a flying lesson for the first time and the instructor taking him or her to a 747 and saying "Here, lets learn about the electronics and avionics in the cockpit". Not helpful. 

I agree that *sometimes* I go a bit overboard - and welcome this comment.
 
However, if one accepts status quo, there will be no progress. The goal is to make analog's all shortcomings and defects unobjectionable enough to be palatable to a listener that was born after invention and with CD as primary source of music - while allowing for all the benefits analog enjoys over redbook CD or even various degrees of HiRez.
 
That will not be reached with "cookbook" type of recipe only, either. Some understanding behind and obove the sound produced is also required. 

 

[Skylab]

With all due respect, AS, your view of progress is your own, and not an absolute. MY view, personally, is that progress is having many more people enjoy vinyl playback than do today, with at least something like 80-90% of what's possible. Your approach seems to lead to a place where a tiny number of perfectionists would enjoy 99.99 % of what's possible. I'm OK with the pursuit of that, as long as it doesn't discourage people from jumping in at the 80-90% level, because if that doesn't happen, we won't continue to enjoy the resurgence of LP releases that we enjoy today.

THIS thread, started by me, is primarily intended to help the newbie, which means that accepting imperfection as long as it's enjoyable is completely OK.

 

[brhfl]

Having read this thread in its entirety over the course of about two weeks, I think that it offers quite a bit of info at every level. I also don't really see AS's comments as an impossible quest for perfection for the average user... Just wise words of pragmatism. I think there's a definite point you have to hit for a real return on an analog investment over today's very capable digital systems. If you can't meet that point, you're probably just risking the life of a bunch of vinyl for the sake of muddy sound. If someone's in it for the experience of watching a 12" piece of plastic spin, then it doesn't matter. But if someone is looking for a real return here, there are some areas that one can only skimp on so much. I think AS has given good suggestions on what someone on a budget can reasonably manage, and what that person should look into... and then, for the gear-lusting of us, has waxed poetic on the numerous ways that setup could be pushed over the top. Just my 2c, I've found this thread quite riveting, even the parts that were already fully well-known to me. 
 
I will say I'm still a bit curious if anyone has thoughts on the 9" vs 10" Jelco 750s...

 

[Skylab]

AS knows far more than I do about vinyl setup and playback. I just don't want anyone to feel like they cannot enjoy vinyl unless they go to extreme measure, because I know from personal experience this is NOT the case for a very large percentage of listeners. It great to present the best possible methods...as long as they are not presented as mandatory for anyone to be able to enjoy listening to records.

 

[bbophead]

AS knows far more than I do about vinyl setup and playback. I just don't want anyone to feel like they cannot enjoy vinyl unless they go to extreme measure, because I know from personal experience this is NOT the case for a very large percentage of listeners. It great to present the best possible methods...as long as they are not presented as mandatory for anyone to be able to enjoy listening to records.

+1

 

[arcorob]

And...that was my point. I am sorry if it seems like I was picking on AS..I must learn to be more tactful, I freely admit that and apologize. But my point (as reiterated by Skylab) is the answers must be tempered to the experience level of the poster. One of the reasons I suggested separate threads instead of one big one but this can work too.
 
If a semi-experienced analog lover asks a question about capacitance, I will gladly turn them over to AS as he knows much more on the subject than my basic knowledge. But if it is a newbie, then you feed them pabulum first and only, not steak. When the upper 1% data is posted, it serves to confuse and in some ways, discourage folks from getting in to or enjoying vinyl.
 
I have had many thanks on my basic turntable setup video not because I am some rocket scientist, but because instead of giving them theory, I showed them basic how-to, introduced tools and nomenclature. Now, when they go to a forum that talks about things, they have the basics.
 
Can't teach algebra if you don't understand basic math.

 

[brhfl]

 
Can't teach algebra if you don't understand basic math.

Ah, but you can tell someone why basic math wouldn't cut it if they need algebra. I don't think anyone's been harsh here, but I do think there's useful information as far as being utterly pragmatic and not trying to get anyone's hopes up with bottom-of-the-line equipment. Admittedly... there is a crazy amount of information being thrown every which way in this thread. It is rather daunting!

 

[calipilot227]

AS knows far more than I do about vinyl setup and playback. I just don't want anyone to feel like they cannot enjoy vinyl unless they go to extreme measure, because I know from personal experience this is NOT the case for a very large percentage of listeners. It great to present the best possible methods...as long as they are not presented as mandatory for anyone to be able to enjoy listening to records.

 
Although I must say, AS has made me seriously think about picking up a Technica SL-10... 

 

[RUMAY408]

This is one of my favorite threads on Head-Fi, mixed with serious TT experts and newbies, and those of us who rediscovered the beauty of vinyl.
 
I grew up with vinyl and TT's so catching up on the latest gear and setups with the help of the pro's on this thread has been so helpful.  
 
My take, a decent lower priced TT can be as satisfying as an expensive CD player.  CD's have a sterile digital quality in comparison to vinyl.
 
For newbies who want an intro to TT's with the less expensive setups,

please go for it.