[guysmileeey]

I'm enjoying the Master so much that, despite getting home at 3 in the morning, I just had to get some more listening in.

BUT WAIT! NEWSFLASH! According to one poster, my enjoyment is not genuine, but dishonest(*edit- Pleased to say the accusation has been deleted*). He has a more accurate perception of their value despite not having listened to them.

It feels like every time we get to having enjoyable discussion, someone feels the need to piss in the cornflakes. Guess what? I'm going to just keep on enjoying them regardless of anyone's accusations. I don't need my opinion to be respected for this hobby to be fun and rewarding, all I need is some creative vibrations pumped into my ears. In my opinion these Masters are doing a mighty fine job bringing the fun!

 

[majo123]

I'm not the most experienced head fier or the best at explaining what i hear but i have purchased many of what are considered mid fi iems with multiple drivers and single drivers , dunu titan 3 , dunu dn 2000, pinnacle p1 , sony xba h3 , klipsch, x10i , grado gr10 , to name a few and listened to many others one that sticks in my mind is shure 535 (admittedly with non stock cable ) and honestly i prefer the master to all of them.
They might not be perfect and from previous posters reviews also on frequency graph have floors, but i would definitely say they punch above there price range for me.
Also a previous posters compared them to Akg 701 , i have owned Akg 702 which for the money they cost nowadays are amazing but originally i think they cost about £400 and now I think you can pick them up for about £130 .
First of all they were £400 on release and master were retail £160 pound , second of all a 40 mm driver compared to an IEM driver I dont think you can start to try and compare the two.
This is just my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree, like i said im not the most experienced head fier , just know what i like and all sound is subjective.

 

[Jackpot77]

... im not the most experienced head fier , just know what i like and all sound is subjective.

I think you just nailed it right there - experience seems to be worn like a badge of achievement it validation in this hobby, but in most cases what it all comes down to is whether the sound you are hearing is good FOR YOU. Just like you don't need to be able to build an engine to enjoy driving a well made car, all you need to enjoy good sound is your own ears and your own opinion. If they work for you, that is the most important thing.

 

[riesz]

Guess what? I'm going to just keep on enjoying them regardless of anyone's accusations. I don't need my opinion to be respected for this hobby to be fun and rewarding, all I need is some creative vibrations pumped into my ears.

Well apparently you do or you wouldn't be posting all of this.


And since people were talking about it, my Masters came with a case and a pack of M sized kombi tips. No balanced cable or L-connector.

Also they seem to be needing considerably more juice than the PM4s cause they're like a full volume setting below them. Seem pretty difficult to drive through just a phone, even more so than the PM4s.

Do you guys not use them outside much or do you not care that much about the sheer size of them? They look almost comically large in my ears. I'm thinking about selling them and keeping the PM4s for outside.

 

[OldDude04]

"2 bad impressions, several great impressions. Yup, that must mean those people with the good thoughts are surely lying for Trinity's benefit."

Sorry, I just had to write out that logic to see if it was as silly as I thought it was. And it looked even sillier written out. I've been enjoying my Masters since I got them, and fully believe they punch outside their weight class. I've paid much more than the Master's listed retail for my UE Triple Fi 10 and Sennheiser IE80 and I'd pick the Master over them both. I no longer have the TF10, but I haven't picked up my IE80 once since the Masters arrived.

This message was not sponsored by Trinity in any way.

 

[majo123]

"2 bad impressions, several great impressions. Yup, that must mean those people with the good thoughts are surely lying for Trinity's benefit."

Sorry, I just had to write out that logic to see if it was as silly as I thought it was. And it looked even sillier written out. I've been enjoying my Masters since I got them, and fully believe they punch outside their weight class. I've paid much more than the Master's listed retail for my UE Triple Fi 10 and Sennheiser IE80 and I'd pick the Master over them both. I no longer have the TF10, but I haven't picked up my IE80 once since the Masters arrived.

This message was not sponsored by Trinity in any way.

8 out of 10 cats lol .

Yep from what i have read popular consensus seems to be they are a winner.

 

[poro1]

So in my work I have to deal with peer review a lot and I'm quite familiar with all the troubles there although the reviewers are usually very competent. Therefore the review culture here interests me very much.

It seem to be that at least for some head fi members a good reviewer is a person who have bought many headphones orIEM's (or maybe worse have got many free samples) and is ready to write sometimes lengthy reviews with lot of pictures and appropriate phrases. While it is clear that getting experience is needed to be very good reviewer, I don't think it implies anything.

If it is hard to see this in audio world, maybe try to replace headphone with wine, DAC with glass, and cable with snakeoil. Then read a detailed review about wine and how it tastes on different temperatures and from different classes. On written it might sound and look very cool, while in blind test the writer can not differentiate one wine form another. Even without taste at all you can write impressive texts, but no matter how many wines you taste it will not make you better or worse in blind test.

I have found lot of very nice discussion about headphones (and also music suggestions) in head fi and I'm little tempted to get sucked on sound science forum (try to avoid going there).

But unfortunately here also lives quite strange hierarchical subculture, which is based on the previously described more or less completely unmeasurable competence. On this culture it seem to be very important to look cool on the eyes of your peers (whoever one think they are). So you try to form opinions that are in line with your peers, but try to make some differences so that you would look original. This culture makes some of the reviews completely worthless as the concensus with some of the "experts" can be quite off (search QT5 hype and group behaviour there)

To make things even worse there are people who maybe have worked as a testers of a product and have gotten very much emotionally attached with it (no, this is not about Jackpot77)
This is not a big problem on a review of this product as you can sort of factor that out when reading, but things get very foggy, when the same person continuously criticize competing products. I have in some cases been really surprised about some comments only to find later on that the person given comments is more or less a representative of another product (or even product type ).

To end this rant... In this thread there is speculation of quality and price of Master. Remembering that the same author wrote about PM4:
"So. Is the Master 4 any good? Yes. Very good. Considering the price of 170€. Definitely.
If you're looking for an all-in one package with an emotional and spacious sound, look no further. The Master 4 is your man."

And in fact this review was earlier more praising before someone did the THD measurements on it(which I think one should be very careful to use to form opinions) and it was not cool to like PM4 anymore.

 

[Remiam7]

I first came upon headfi to read about reviews of particular products I was considering purchasing as I thought that there would be those of more experience doing the reviews. And I would say, for me anyway, that has been the case. But in the end it comes down to personal preferences when listening to your own music. Each of us is an individual, and even both ears are not the same. Nevermind the other ears each of us supposedly have in at least one other area of the body. For me, I enjoy reading everyone's information after receiving a particular product. The good and the bad. The more info the better to make my own decision. It really is all subjective though.

On another note. For those who own both, have you tried using the longer filter's of the Vyrus 2 on the Master, and if so did you notice any differences?

 

[poro1]

I first came upon headfi to read about reviews of particular products I was considering purchasing as I thought that there would be those of more experience doing the reviews. And I would say, for me anyway, that has been the case. But in the end it comes down to personal preferences when listening to your own music. Each of us is an individual, and even both ears are not the same. Nevermind the other ears each of us supposedly have in at least one other area of the body. For me, I enjoy reading everyone's information after receiving a particular product. The good and the bad. The more info the better to make my own decision. It really is all subjective though.

I do also value the opinions of the more experiences reviewers more than the opinions of less experienced ones. I also think that many of the people here who are doing a lot of reviews seem to be honest and competent. I also believe on the consensus of several reviews. However, in some cases you get number of reviews that are actually more or less the same review as they are formed through group behaviour or are presenting the opinion of some leading figure of some small group (really QT5 is quite good reality check). Trying to form opinion based on such group of reviews is not quite easy.

I value most the opinions of those reviewers (or maybe just users) who seem to be immune on group behaviour, have experience and seem to have got it right many times.

 

[nealh]

I'd partially disagree with the "yet another" part of the comment if only because I perceived that as implying that Trinity has released several disappointing IEMs when to me, it seems like they've so far only released 1 that didn't match up to expectations: the PM4. One could argue that there were some shortfalls with the Sabre and first Vyrus due to the cables, but I'd wager the people that fixed their cable issues were very happy with those. Only the PM4 could really be considered a stinker. And I have to reiterate that in terms of actually released products, they've got a very good hit rate. Good ones include the Hyperion, Techne, Delta, Delta V2, Atlas, Vyrus V1 (arguably), Vyrus 2 (IMO), Sabre (arguably), and now Master (arguably). Really the only one that I've seen a sizable number of complaints for is the PM4, though second place goes to the Sabre. Reception sounds mostly positive for the Master, almost enough to say that it's worth the retail price, certainly the discount price. I'm reading between the lines, but it feels like many people think that it punches almost near the $200 mark which is exactly what the full retail price is.

I want to see them un-mess up this recent slew of launches ASAP though cuz it's a magnificently botched job. I'm only glad I'm lucky enough to have other stuff to listen to while I wait; some people do not have such a luxury.

I do not own Sabre but as I recall many felt it was too bright and reviewers brought this issue up prior to production to Trinity. No changes were made.
Sabre did have a? with SQ for many.

 

[sejsel]

Well apparently you do or you wouldn't be posting all of this.


And since people were talking about it, my Masters came with a case and a pack of M sized kombi tips. No balanced cable or L-connector.

Also they seem to be needing considerably more juice than the PM4s cause they're like a full volume setting below them. Seem pretty difficult to drive through just a phone, even more so than the PM4s.

Do you guys not use them outside much or do you not care that much about the sheer size of them? They look almost comically large in my ears. I'm thinking about selling them and keeping the PM4s for outside.

I had no problem driving them of the iphone SE, with more than decent volume level, not to speak about of MacBook pro jack, so no problems even without the additional amplification. I would second the positive reviews stated before, for the rebate these are really a steal, and even at the full price - when you look around and compare, they do punch in the $200 IEM range, if not above.

FLC8 - very curious about them, but again - the price has never reached the heavy rebate I've got Masters for, so no contest there in terms of sound for money - even though of course in absolute terms and in terms of tuneability - the FLC8 looks to be really something special. I wouldn't mind owning them.
I am in no terms biased towards the Trinity - having mentioned the above facts about FLC8 - I just think, when compared to the gear I have, and having in mind the boundaries of the technologies and the costs of the respective gear in relative terms (compared to each other) that I have no reason whatsoever not to like the Masters, on the contrary.
As I have stated before, for even better sound, well go then for FLC8 (according to one reviewer here), but that will cost you about 4 times more than the rebate many of us got Masters for.

Masters, compared to AKG701 and other phones I own (and this is inherently unfair comparison IMO) hold their own more than well... for portable use difficult to ask for more within the price range.

Oh - I am not a fanboy, actually I am very critical of the equipment in general and I have preordered the Icarus III and Icarus I, so I am in that way keeping the Trinity Audio honest, so to speak.

Speaking about being picky with amplification - I have been incredibly lucky in having a good match for AKG K701 in my - now about 13-15 years old solid state headphone amp. Many people had trouble finding the reasonably priced - budget - amp for those.

 

[Stenso]

I received my Masters, I experimented with filters, I experimented with tips; I found the ones I liked and I began to listen to my test tracks as objectively as possible, using the gear that I will use them with Chord Hugo (for travelling) and Violectric DAC and Amp (at home).

I like the build quality and the added extras. I put the red plate on the right and the blue on the left and apart from the changes of filter and tip initially, these will now stay as they are at present.

If I hadn't liked them, I would have said so and detailed my thoughts.

Do I think that I compromised honesty in the initial thoughts that I posted? No, I gave my thoughts based upon what I experienced. Do I consider myself a fanboy? No, but as a repeat customer I must like the line of products, or the Trinity house sound, or I wouldn't keep spending money with them.

Do I think that they are worth the money? Yes, in part because I was willing to purchase them, and because I am happy with the sq, build and fit. Would I recommend them to others? Yes, but only based on the the fact that they work for me.

I struggle to understand your ire Indigo Bob, if it is about the distribution and communication issues, thats fine and thats something that I can comprehend, but if its about the product itself (and especially one that you haven't even heard for yourself) then please, base your thoughts on experience and not on hearsay. If you don't like them, tell us why. If they don't fit, describe why they don't. If the sq is not to your liking, share your thoughts.

But if all you want to do is whine and bitch, find another hobby, or another forum; don't accuse me and others of bias and dishonesty, unless you are prepared to do it face to face.

 

[FUYU]

So in my work I have to deal with peer review a lot and I'm quite familiar with all the troubles there although the reviewers are usually very competent. Therefore the review culture here interests me very much.

It seem to be that at least for some head fi members a good reviewer is a person who have bought many headphones orIEM's (or maybe worse have got many free samples) and is ready to write sometimes lengthy reviews with lot of pictures and appropriate phrases. While it is clear that getting experience is needed to be very good reviewer, I don't think it implies anything.

[...]

To end this rant... In this thread there is speculation of quality and price of Master. Remembering that the same author wrote about PM4:
"So. Is the Master 4 any good? Yes. Very good. Considering the price of 170€. Definitely.
If you're looking for an all-in one package with an emotional and spacious sound, look no further. The Master 4 is your man."

And in fact this review was earlier more praising before someone did the THD measurements on it(which I think one should be very careful to use to form opinions) and it was not cool to like PM4 anymore.

I share a similar sentiment. There is a fundamental issue in reviewing audio products: Subjectivity. Everyone has different hearing and perception, even more so in audio. Dealing with this can be somewhat tricky. In my case, I tend to pick up 2 or 3 IEMs and compare them side by side. Frequency measurements are obviously the easiest piece of info to analyze. You got IEM A and IEM B showing different characteristics. You repeat this 3-5 times and after looking at it, you assume a signature. Key is assumption, because there are many highly touted researchers still asking themselves: What is neutrality or flat. And how do we compensate microphones to emulate human hearing? Coupled with the fact that every measuring setup is different, achieving consistency is very difficult.

After that you can move to THD+N and CSD for more advanced data. Waterfall plots are basically Frequency + Decay, which IMO gives better inside of the overall sound-experience. However, like above, the same issues apply. THD+N is maybe the most consistent, although there are exceptions. For instance you can add some bass distortion for an "organic" feel. I think there is some correlation with distortion and decay, but I am not 100% sure. Add a plethora of filters and you have lots of analysis.

Anyway, all of the technicalities aside, how does it translate? Not great. The notion of being a "good reviewer", correlating with the amount of headphones you have listened to has certainly some merit. You compare product A, B and maybe C and D and come to a conclusion on which one is better. You have to account for your own taste, music/testing library, and all the other shenanigans. Much hassle for little coherent info. Hence most people conclude their opinion by looking at the average rating. You put in hours of effort into a review and people will only read the last paragraph or maybe look at the nice little pictures you added. No wonder Head-Fi and similar goes into hive-mind mode. I made these mistakes as well. I often rewrite paragraphs after listening to new gear, because a new comparison made such "issues" evident. Obviously when there is money involved, anger ensues. And changing your opinion after someone bought a product, seems to not fare well with people. You are a marketing tool at this point. Nothing more, nothing less. Even if being featured on the HF Home-page does feel satisfying.

I really recommend looking at the science and DIY section to anyone interested in audio and not just their hedonistic needs. Lots of wishy-washy snake-oil, like how "my 1000$ cable is making all the difference", need not apply.

 

[Jackpot77]

Very interesting posts above, especially by @poro1 and @Stenso . I think a good review (or reviewer) is defined by how clearly they can give an impression of how the gear sounds, and how clearly they can explain why they like it. Bias actually plays an important part in that for me - if I know what a reviewer likes in terms of sonic preference, that helps interpret the description and rating they give the sound.

Comparisons also play a very big role - understanding how something sounds relative to other items can be very useful to grant context to an otherwise abstract opinion.

I don't consider myself an "expert" (or even particularly competent) reviewer - I have been lucky enough to hear some pretty cool gear in the last two years (mostly purchased by myself) and enjoy writing about my experiences, so I put impressions up as much for my own enjoyment as to help others. That said, like most people who go to the effort of writing impressions on here, I always go to great lengths to make sure the stuff I write is my honest opinion of the gear, and try to give as unbiased an assessment as I can of where that gear sits quality wise in relation to other items referenced.

It is difficult to remain objective sometimes, and that is why the "big names" like Twister6 / Brooko / Hisoundfi etc have earned the respect they have for their reviews, as they all have an ability to assess where something sits on their own personal baseline and explain that to the reader. Another thing to remember is that for most hobbyist reviewers, we have to buy the gear we review or write about. This usually leads to positive reviews, but not through any manufacturers bias or dishonesty, but simply due to the fact that people tend to buy things they think they will like in terms of sonics, so the fact the reviews are positive shouldn't be too surprising. That's how it is for the Masters - a lot of buyers will already be fans of the house sound, so a revised and refined version of something they are already pretty amenable towards will generate honest appraisals that for them, the Master is a very good IEM. As long as they aren't making claims that can't be proved it aren't based on their own opinions and experiences with the gear, they should be just as valid as any one of the more "seasoned" reviewers out there.

Bottom line - if the balance of reasoned opinion on this thread is that the Master are a good sounding headphone, fans of the Trinity sound should feel comfortable that FOR THEM it will be a decent choice

 

[JaeYoon]

I share a similar sentiment. There is a fundamental issue in reviewing audio products: Subjectivity. Everyone has different hearing and perception, even more so in audio. Dealing with this can be somewhat tricky. In my case, I tend to pick up 2 or 3 IEMs and compare them side by side. Frequency measurements are obviously the easiest piece of info to analyze. You got IEM A and IEM B showing different characteristics. You repeat this 3-5 times and after looking at it, you assume a signature. Key is assumption, because there are many highly touted researchers still asking themselves: What is neutrality or flat. And how do we compensate microphones to emulate human hearing? Coupled with the fact that every measuring setup is different, achieving consistency is very difficult.

After that you can move to THD+N and CSD for more advanced data. Waterfall plots are basically Frequency + Decay, which IMO gives better inside of the overall sound-experience. However, like above, the same issues apply. THD+N is maybe the most consistent, although there are exceptions. For instance you can add some bass distortion for an "organic" feel. I think there is some correlation with distortion and decay, but I am not 100% sure. Add a plethora of filters and you have lots of analysis.

Anyway, all of the technicalities aside, how does it translate? Not great. The notion of being a "good reviewer", correlating with the amount of headphones you have listened to has certainly some merit. You compare product A, B and maybe C and D and come to a conclusion on which one is better. You have to account for your own taste, music/testing library, and all the other shenanigans. Much hassle for little coherent info. Hence most people conclude their opinion by looking at the average rating. You put in hours of effort into a review and people will only read the last paragraph or maybe look at the nice little pictures you added. No wonder Head-Fi and similar goes into hive-mind mode. I made these mistakes as well. I often rewrite paragraphs after listening to new gear, because a new comparison made such "issues" evident. Obviously when there is money involved, anger ensues. And changing your opinion after someone bought a product, seems to not fare well with people. You are a marketing tool at this point. Nothing more, nothing less. Even if being featured on the HF Home-page does feel satisfying.

I really recommend looking at the science and DIY section to anyone interested in audio and not just their hedonistic needs. Lots of wishy-washy snake-oil, like how "my 1000$ cable is making all the difference", need not apply.

I think sound section in this forum is awesome.
About those magic cables.
Long time ago when I applied to this site and after lots of searching for headphones. I remember people recommending me silver cables and balanced cables $1,200 - $6,000.

I remember Brooko a moderator told me to be very careful and after a couple of pms told me it's useless to buy a cable for sq. He explained EE style on why people think they hear sounds. Impedance and resistance of a cable can add volume differences and some listeners perceive louder as better hence all the stories of a single cable massively inproving soundstage and mids fluctuate like Lucifer going back to heaven and becoming an angel again, etc.

The only real reason to buy a cable is more comfort or microphonic or size, backup reasons. Anything else is just impedance and resistance.

Or how I remember someone mentioned they use balanced cables and hear a magical difference. The headphones when opened however do not have balanced wiring. They just attach a 3.5mm to 2.5mm and have magical fantasy pixie dust.

But no doubt a lot of people here do love expensive cables. But if it works for them.

 

[bluesw]

Hmm, so I seem to be missing the balanced cable for my Master. Does anyone have a clue what Trinity are gonna do?
Well, at least the connector is a normal 3.5" TRRS , I could make one myself.

On a side note, I do agree that the Masters are a fraction harder to drive than your "normal" low impedance phones. I tested it on my phone that has weak output and found that I'd have to ramp up the volume quite a bit.
I've found that the Green filters work best for my preference, but finding the best tips might take some time. I didn't like how the Kombi Tips sounded, and as I've found the JVC spiral dots work great for my ears on the PM4, I'll give them a try on the Masters too. I do have some Spinfits and Final Audio E Type tips so I might give them a try too, but I've found the Final Audio adds too much bass for my ears.