[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Next journey.... STAX!

 

[joseph69]

Next journey.... STAX!

Which Stax system are you considering?

 

[matthewhypolite]

Thanks for posting. I have more curiosity for the Abyss Phi CC than any other non-electrostat.

Interesting how your rating categories makes perfect sense, but when I try to make a similar chart for myself using my own experiences, I don't fully agree with the numbers at the end. The best example is the Audeze LCD-4, since I personally think its treble ruins the entire headphone basically, but the rating system can't really depict that so it ends up at 7.2 average SQ and 7.4 overall for me since it fails in only one category.

That's why it is also important to do a writeup. And also why I said it's hard to quantify the abyss cc by just using numbers. Because if u look at the figures, the Utopia is in the class of the abyss, but the cc is so dam good, when i put the Utopia on, they jsut sound.....wrong.

Question for you, since you think the treble ruins the lcd4, what overall rating would you have like to give it? (P. S. 7.4 is pretty low for the price of that can, so the score may actually reflect there is an issue there). Let me know.

 

[omniweltall]

Agree with most of your review. Looking forward to your next reviews.

By the HD800 is indeed a must. Have tried plenty of cans. It holds it ground superbly well against newer TOTL.

 

[Rhamnetin]

That's why it is also important to do a writeup. And also why I said it's hard to quantify the abyss cc by just using numbers. Because if u look at the figures, the Utopia is in the class of the abyss, but the cc is so dam good, when i put the Utopia on, they jsut sound.....wrong.

Question for you, since you think the treble ruins the lcd4, what overall rating would you have like to give it? (P. S. 7.4 is pretty low for the price of that can, so the score may actually reflect there is an issue there). Let me know.

It's hard to say. 7.4 isn't terribly off, my main issue is how it compares to some other headphones I tried to rank, which I thought deserved even higher than the LCD-4 (ZMF Ori being the main one). But yeah like you said the writeup is the real necessity.

But for reference, I would want to rate the LCD-4 lower than quite a few well respected sub $1,000 headphones, like the ZMF Ori, ZMF Blackwood, HiFiMan Sundara, HiFiMan HE-500. All because of the treble. And the LCD-4 does best every lower numbered LCD (and the LCD-X/LCD-XC) in every way too. I was quite harsh with my ratings. The SR-009 scored almost 2 full points higher than the next best in overall SQ.

 

[matthewhypolite]

It's hard to say. 7.4 isn't terribly off, my main issue is how it compares to some other headphones I tried to rank, which I thought deserved even higher than the LCD-4 (ZMF Ori being the main one). But yeah like you said the writeup is the real necessity.

But for reference, I would want to rate the LCD-4 lower than quite a few well respected sub $1,000 headphones, like the ZMF Ori, ZMF Blackwood, HiFiMan Sundara, HiFiMan HE-500. All because of the treble. And the LCD-4 does best every lower numbered LCD (and the LCD-X/LCD-XC) in every way too. I was quite harsh with my ratings. The SR-009 scored almost 2 full points higher than the next best in overall SQ.

What did you score the staxx, and what was your 2nd best?

 

[Rhamnetin]

What did you score the staxx, and what was your 2nd best?

I gave the SR-009 a 10 for overall SQ. Only docked it for build quality and efficiency. Hell in terms of building a system around it, it (and presumably the SR-009S) is the worst. You have to spend a lot on an amp to make it worthwhile (at least a good KGSSHV but preferably better), and you have to not only spend a lot on a DAC but get one that's a sonic match for your taste because DAC can make or break the system. Lots of experimenting may be required. An SR-009 can just as easily be unimpressive as it can be amazing depending on the system (even comparing two different expensive/high end systems).

I find if you use a DAC that is too laid back (e.g. R2R DACs) then it loses its magic. Sure, it might be too bright for some with a delta sigma DAC that goes for maximum transparency (or a higher end Chord DAC), but its best characteristics will also become most obvious.

Next best in scoring was the HD 800 although I like the Utopia more overall, and Utopia got an 8 for overall SQ while HD 800 got an 8.2 which I didn't like (HD 800 got higher mostly due to sound stage and imaging scoring much better). I've since deleted my attempts at scoring all of these, but I am happy to discuss my experience with them all.

Overall there seems to be consistency between your impressions and mine, but with some differences as well.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Which Stax system are you considering?

Sorry was referring to this reviews of TOTL cans. On adding electrostatics on the mix.

Should be interesting of what it will lead you. Like the chap above ( @Rhamnetin ) did with his stash of dynamic headphones and amps...

 

[matthewhypolite]

Yea others have recommended me get intonstaxx as well, the reason I haven't as yet is what @Rhamnetin described above. The cost investment involved in building a good system around the staxx. Just spent a pretty penny on WA33 elite and accompanying tubes. I hope to do the staxx journey some day though, when I can afford to to . And with Mr speakers and others putting out more electrostatic headphones, I'll have some other options to test on the amp as well. What's the retail on the kgsshg? If I can get something reasonable that can bring out most of the staxx then I'll jump in. But I'd prefer to get a taste for them first before investing too heavily into an electro amp blind. (I crept my way up in dynamic)

 

[joseph69]

Yea others have recommended me get intonstaxx as well, the reason I haven't as yet is what @Rhamnetin described above. The cost investment involved in building a good system around the staxx. Just spent a pretty penny on WA33 elite and accompanying tubes. I hope to do the staxx journey some day though, when I can afford to to . And with Mr speakers and others putting out more electrostatic headphones, I'll have some other options to test on the amp as well. What's the retail on the kgsshg? If I can get something reasonable that can bring out most of the staxx then I'll jump in. But I'd prefer to get a taste for them first before investing too heavily into an electro amp blind. (I crept my way up in dynamic)

Well you sure crept your way to the top, that's for sure!
Used prices for the KGSShv vary according to the build, so I think I'd be safe to say around $2.5K-$3.5K.
Also take a look at Mjolnir Audio (spritzer) who has the KGSShv Carbon Mini for $4.6K new as well as many others that might interest you.
There is also a HeadAmp BHSE on the F/S forums if your interested too.

 

[wuwhere]

Stax SR009/BHSE really sound good, reference. At RMAF last year everyone who listened to it unanimously said its really good.

 

[matthewhypolite]

Hmm, so about $11K for the Headphone/BHSE. Not too bad considering what i have now. I'll think about it.
Though i'll probably want to audition it first. I'll have to organize to attempt a canjam and get some ears on.

 

[Rhamnetin]

You can save a lot of money by getting a KGSSHV Carbon over the BHSE, and the KGSSHV Carbon is technically superior I believe. As far as I know, the Carbon has a better power supply design, and in terms of sound it has more bass quantity and slam and a bigger and perhaps more articulate sound stage.

CanJams are too damned loud. Though even at these audio shows, it was immediately clear to me that the SR-009 + BHSE is far more transparent than any non-electrostatic offering. But the nuances of its superiority can't be heard in such conditions. And the DAC in choice can make or break the system, even a really good but mismatched DAC can break it. In this day and age it's going to be paired with an R2R DAC most likely, but I think they all suppress the treble too much, greatly reducing some of the SR-009's key strengths which include transparency and detail retrieval from its treble, clarity and crispness of its attack, and speed of its decay. The SR-009 has to be allowed to be on the bright side for these things to shine through, otherwise you end up with something more like other headphones. If indeed the SR-009 proves too bright when shining to its full potential, then I'd suggest the SR-007 on a system also designed around maximum transparency.

I'm actually experimenting with silver interconnects with my SR-009 system. I am not shying away from making this system "bright" at all. I'm trying out the most transparent, detail revealing equipment I can afford (Chord Hugo TT 2 will be next, then the Hugo M Scaler, gonna stop with DACs at that). So far I'm not favoring the Silver Streak Balanced interconnects though, seems to reveal some treble flaws that were previously hidden behind copper, but I'm going to try the Hero AG and KCTG anyway.

 

[wuwhere]

Even at CanJam environment, I listened to Stax 007Mk1, 007A Mk2, Mr. Speaker's on BHSE, 009 beats them all.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Even at CanJam environment, I listened to Stax 007Mk1, 007A Mk2, Mr. Speaker's on BHSE, 009 beats them all.

I thought the same thing at CanJam and NY Audio Show, but I now question my own experiences there since in those conditions I could not even detect the LCD-4's fatal treble flaws (since they're not as gigantic as the treble flaws of a $30 headphone haha).

Stax needs more retailers but I guess they are too niche? Their popularity would spread if people could go to their local Hi-Fi store and listen to an elite SR-009S / SR-009 / SR-007 system. But amps are even trickier since HeadAmp has very few retailers, and that is the only commercial source of good electrostatic amps (can't count Mjolnir Audio since they're not really "commercial"). So Stax also needs to make a good amp.