From what I witnessed/experienced so far, and from what a friend of mine does, who has a lot of gears, probably more than anyone on this forums. The 800/s are still very Top of the Line. It only needs a proper amplifier. It can even outperform Utopia
The utopia is alot easier to drive than say the Abyss or the Susvara. And the WA33 has enough power to drive the Susvara, so it is a headphone on my watchlist. Having owned the HEK and HEKv2, The susvara may be a nice can to put up against the Phi. But man is it expensive! lol.
But the phi is really good. Susvara is going to have to be a really amazing headphone to match/beat the Phi.
P.S. the reasons you state for not owning the susvara is the same reason i dont own the sr009 already. The amp investment is alot to get the best out of the sr009. I'd prefer to hear the staxx first before considering that kind of investment.
The utopia is alot easier to drive than say the Abyss or the Susvara. And the WA33 has enough power to drive the Susvara, so it is a headphone on my watchlist. Having owned the HEK and HEKv2, The susvara may be a nice can to put up against the Phi. But man is it expensive! lol.
But the phi is really good. Susvara is going to have to be a really amazing headphone to match/beat the Phi.
P.S. the reasons you state for not owning the susvara is the same reason i dont own the sr009 already. The amp investment is alot to get the best out of the sr009. I'd prefer to hear the staxx first before considering that kind of investment.
Exactly, to properly drive these top of the line headphones, it would cost a crazy amount. This hobby is in the time where everything is just astronomical . You can hear Stax with BHSE now as they show up more often in the meets. I doubt you would ever see the T2 at meets or shows
Yea, i'll have to try hear a Staxx / BHSE at a meet, but i've never been to one of the canjams, i plan to rectify that though. Get ears on some of the other gear and see what i want to consider.
But now that i have my amp situation sorted, i can focus more on headphones. I still need to get my dac upgrade done, considering the MSB Discrete.
And yes, this hobby is astronomical at this level lol. Thankfully there are some really great options at a ridiculous fraction of the cost.
Did using any of the other headphones with your WA33 change the order/ratings?
Did the HEK & Utopia scale as well as the Phi with your new amp or did they not benefit as much?
Can’t tell you how they sound. I can tell you that the engineering and the designs implementations are very well thought and engineered. The only way to find out.
Did using any of the other headphones with your WA33 change the order/ratings?
Did the HEK & Utopia scale as well as the Phi with your new amp or did they not benefit as much?
The Phi scaled alot with the new amp. The Utopia not so much, but there was an improvement. I no longer have the HEK, after reviewing the V2 and using the utopia and original abyss, i rarely had a situation where i'd reach for the v2 over the abyss/utopia so i ended up selling it. and i find myself thinking the same way with the Phi. i've hardly reached for the utopia since getting the phi. but more on that in my review soon. But from what i know about the HEK, i'd think it would have a bigger improvement on the new amp than the utopias. but still lesser than the phi.
To answer you question re:ratings, Here's a blurb from my coming soon updated review:
"P.S. The reviews below are based on solid state amps but I will be including a section in each review for performance on a high end tube amp, these results wouldn't be counted towards my final thoughts / scoring as not many folks have high end tube amps to get that level out of the headphone."
So when i put the phi up, it will be based on using the solid state amp. Also as i no longer have the LCD3 and Hifiman cans, it would be unfair to review the Phi+WA33 against them. But i'll still make mention of tube performance as i test cans on them, but not count it towards final scoring.
I've finally finished my Abyss Phi review. I've also added a new section to my headphone reviews "Scaling / Tubes" and i've included that section in the Utopia review. I've also updated the original post on the first page with all the new information. So without further ado, have a look at how the Phi stacks up:
Summary
Focal took the HiFi world by surprise with these cans, and delivered a headphone unlike anything I've heard before. The Utopia does a lot of different things really well all at the same time, making it the best overall headphones I've ever listened too. It can be highly detailed and precise whiles simultaneously being rich lush and full bodied. It can be impactful and full of bass while still being clean and detailed. Focal has managed to blend the entire audio spectrum into a cohesive, fun to listen to, wonderful sound. It has a lush rich tone and texture to notes without bleeding over to the other regions. Mid-range to die for. They've set the standard for all-round performance with the Utopia. A true game changer in the high-end headphone market. Focal's experience in high-end speakers shines through and through, as the sound the Utopia produces is so lifelike and rich. They do sound a bit closed in when compared to the Abyss in certain tracks, but I think this adds to what make them so much fun to listen to. They are expertly built with carbon fiber and leather finish. Premium feel and comfortable to wear. A very forward, engaging and fun sounding can, the best all-round sound I've heard.
Scaling / Tubes: (NEW)
Smooth and delicious sound. With the Takatsuki 274B there's too much power and lush and is a bit overwhelming with the Utopia's already warmer presentation. But when paired with the WE274B the utopia opened up and presented a very intimate, smooth, yummy and delicious sound. On the stock WA33 Tubes, there were improvements, but not as pronounced as the phi. With a NOS RCA Quad and WE Rectifier the pairing with the utopia is something special and in genres that mate with it well, it is right up there with the Phi in quality, but is limited to needing the right tube combination to extract that quality.
Comfort
Very comfortable headphone. Fits nice on the head, feels premium, has a bit of weight but no too much. Earpads feel good against the skin and there is no heat buildup against you face. Pads dissipate the heat nicely. Not the most comfortable headphones out there, but they are good.
Build Quality
Premium build and feel. The use of carbon fiber and leather throughout makes these cans feel premium, and worth every penny of their asking price. Very elegant presentation that also looks stunning.
Amp Volume
8-9 o'clock
Rating Breakdown / Tone Wheel
Summary
The Abyss Phi is JPS Labs' upgrade to the original abyss, costing $1500 for the upgrade but remains at the same retail price as the original. Is it worth the upgrade? Yes!. How much better is it than the original? Let's explore that answer: The efficiency of the cans has been improved, volume nob reduced about 10%, gain changed from high to low, Low gain now sounds better out of the Lau. Detail retrieval has been substantially improved, micro detail is amazing, notes can now be heard that were not previously heard out of the original Abyss. Note decay stretches on for miles, the very last whispers and breaths on notes can now be heard bringing a level of immersion and realism that was not previously present. There's more space and greater soundstage with improved instrument placement.
During the first hour of use, the bottomless bass was a bit recessed compared to original but as the headphones burnt in this was no longer the case. The bass is tight and precise and very much still powerful and deep. Treble has been reined in and put under control. The original could sometimes seem fatiguing and a bit sharp on the treble in certain tracks, but the phi brings the treble under control and smooths out the bite. This makes for a much more natural and enjoyable listen.
During my first hour of use, these were my thoughts: "I am thoroughly impressed by what these cans are doing straight out of the box, I shudder to think what this monster is going to turn into post 300hrs." After the 250hr mark, these are my thoughts: "I shudder at how good these headphones have become once burnt in "
Once burnt in, these cans are truly something special. They have a natural life-like tone, the original could sometimes be fatiguing in certain genres and listening lengths, but the Phi is just amazing. Natural, neutral, clean, precise, powerful, wonderful sounding cans. They've improved every aspect of the original IMO, and overall it's simply the best headphones I've ever heard. I previously said that about the Utopia, as it did a lot of different things really well all at the same time. The Abyss Phi IMO has now taken that crown. There were certain genres I'd reach for the Utopia as it performed better than the original abyss, but since getting the Phi, I've hardly reached for the Utopia, and that is saying something. JPS Labs has taken an already amazing headphone, with few audible flaws and a bit lacking for certain genres, and has made it an excellent all round can whiles still retaining what made the original so special in the first place. Well done Joe, Well done.
See testing notesfor more detailed impressions of various genres and tracks
Scaling / Tubes:
As good as these headphones are through a good solid state amp, on a high end tube amp………they become even more amazing, truly magical sound. The abyss is a very clean and powerful headphone, and don’t color the music like other cans do (LCD3, HEK, and even the Utopia), but tubes add a layer of warmth that compliments what the Phi already offers. The improvements on tubes are so substantial that genres in which the Utopia would typically have a clear edge is now narrowed. For instance, in Rock/Metal where the Abyss is at its weakest, I would typically always reach for the Utopia, now I find myself reaching for either can depending on my mode and the tonality I am feeling for at the time. If I'm feeling for a more relaxed, lush and fun listen, Utopia. But when I wanna get up close and intimate with the music and feeling for a more speaker-like and open sound, Phi. The Phi sounds absolutely magical! on tubes. They definitely scale more on a high end tube amp than the utopia and folks with such an amp are going to adore the Phi. The Utopia needs the right tube combination to sound truly magical on tubes, but the Phi play nice with all the different tubes I've tried thus far. Its more neutral and natural presentation allow it to more naturally mate with various tubes and thus will be the better choice for tube rollers. If you feel for more heft, add it, sounds great on the Phi. More clarity and resolution? Roll those tubes in, they will sound great on the Phi. Got some lesser quality stock tubes? No problem, all sound great on the Phi.
On the Lau, I would need both the Utopia and the Abyss in my collection, as they both did what they did really well in the respective genres that suit them. But with the WA33 EE + NOS Tubes + Phi combination…….I can see myself living without the Utopia…..
Comfort
Same as Original : These cans in stock form have the worse comfort of any headphones I've ever used. The major issue is there is no vertical adjustment and you're required to do a lot of fiddling and tweaking to get it to fit your head just right. The fit also dramatically affects sound quality. I'd say that the head-band mod for these cans to add vertical adjustment is mandatory for a comfortable listening experience. It takes it from being a really awkward fit, to a pretty comfortable one. It will still have a lot of weight though, but manageable once modified.
Build Quality
Same as Original : The abyss is built like a tank. Metal throughout and feel like it can be run over by a truck. Handling these you'll at no time think "they can break". It does however have a very polarizing look. I personally love it.
un piccolo consiglio devi assolutamente provare la Susvara. dopo niente sarà lo stesso di prima ...
: Beyersmile:: Beyersmile:: Beyersmile:: Beyersmile:
un piccolo consiglio devi assolutamente provare la Susvara. dopo niente sarà lo stesso di prima ...
: Beyersmile:: Beyersmile:: Beyersmile:: Beyersmile:
The Phi CC Takes everything about the Phi and refines it and polished it. The music sounds a bit more natural and there's a bit more detail retrieval and resolution, the cans, are just….better. And that coming from the Phi is very difficult to accomplish.
They seem to bring more refinement to an already great can. The new earpads seem to make the music cleaner and as a result I'm noticing that bit more of detail retrieval and resolution. There is definitely more space, and the bass is a bit more detailed and refined. Basically makes everything better lol. O, and they are more comfortable.
If you've already dished out $4500+ on the Phi, the extra for CC pads are a new brainer imo. Overall i think they offer more improvement to the sound than a cable upgrade, which can cost anywhere from 3-7 times the cost of the new pads. TLDR go get the pads, and if you're in the market for a new Abyss, might as well go straight CC.
I'm glad these upgrade options were made available to owners, from the headbands, original earpad replacements, phi upgrade, cable upgrades and now earpad upgrades.
Always a path available to me to upgrade as they iterate on the headphones and never felt like my investment was gutted by a future headphone release 6 months later
Now that I've gotten to know the Abyss Phi CC for a while, i can now say this:
The Abyss Phi CC destroys the Utopia.
The thing so good, I had to cross the 10 barrier when i placed the Phi CC on my review chart.
I don’t even know what's happening, if I should adjust all my ratings taking into account the performance of the CC being the pinnacle of what I've heard so far, all I know is, these things sound GOOD!, and at this point I'm not quite sure how to represent that with numbers on a chart. I'll have to have think about it, but I think where my thoughts are on the chart says it all.
Thanks for posting. I have more curiosity for the Abyss Phi CC than any other non-electrostat.
Interesting how your rating categories makes perfect sense, but when I try to make a similar chart for myself using my own experiences, I don't fully agree with the numbers at the end. The best example is the Audeze LCD-4, since I personally think its treble ruins the entire headphone basically, but the rating system can't really depict that so it ends up at 7.2 average SQ and 7.4 overall for me since it fails in only one category.
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. You can hear Stax with BHSE now as they show up more often in the meets. I doubt you would ever see the T2 at meets or shows
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