[headstef]

I only found out about this thread today/yesterday (depending on your time zone). I found reading many of the last pages rather depressing...
There is an inexplicably great amount of misinformation on the Neumann NDH 30 (at least) but maybe a "war" against it is very understandable as it is the first headphone under €/$ 1000 that offers TOTL sound (multi-thousand by "audiophile" pricing standards) in terms of resolution, engagement and balance and fine construction. For anyone without prejudice, the NDH 30 thread is there to discover. Please see current page (173) to start understanding what the fuss is all about, but do not ignore the wealth of information and impressions by many very surprised users, that is spread along the thread.
Enjoy your music the best way you like!

 

[ThanatosVI]

I only found out about this thread today/yesterday (depending on your time zone). I found reading many of the last pages rather depressing...
There is an inexplicably great amount of misinformation on the Neumann NDH 30 (at least) but maybe a "war" against it is very understandable as it is the first headphone under €/$ 1000 that offers TOTL sound (multi-thousand by "audiophile" pricing standards) in terms of resolution, engagement and balance and fine construction. For anyone without prejudice, the NDH 30 thread is there to discover. Please see current page (173) to start understanding what the fuss is all about, but do not ignore the wealth of information and impressions by many very surprised users, that is spread along the thread.
Enjoy your music the best way you like!

This thread only exist for people to crap on gear they don't like.

Next to none of the information provided here is even close to factual (like the assumptions on ZMF Business expenses)

While there usually is a more positive vibe in the threads of specific headphones, this one here just culminates the worst of impressions in a single thread

 

[572217]

This thread only exist for people to crap on gear they don't like.

Next to none of the information provided here is even close to factual (like the assumptions on ZMF Business expenses)

While there usually is a more positive vibe in the threads of specific headphones, this one here just culminates the worst of impressions in a single thread

I want to know when someone is disappointed with a piece of gear. It gives me another point of reference to piece a puzzle together about a potential purchase.

Discussing stuff outside our competence is useless – obviously.

What makes the back and forth tiring for me is rather the fights erupting from “how dare you?” reactions.

It is baffling to me how some people don’t wrap their head around the very real differences in listening and in preferences for what one wants out of a system.

It is a bit like Friedrich Nietzsche said:

“You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”

Then it is about finding people who make similar choices to mine.

 

[number1sixerfan]

This thread only exist for people to crap on gear they don't like.

Next to none of the information provided here is even close to factual (like the assumptions on ZMF Business expenses)

While there usually is a more positive vibe in the threads of specific headphones, this one here just culminates the worst of impressions in a single thread

Which I also think is valuable (not saying you don't, just building on your last point). Every thread naturally is very positive and people also push back on any negative feedback. Recently in the TC thread, I mentioned it would be great if the next iteration had less of a recessed midrange, and immediately everyone chimed in with comments like "it isn't recessed to me", "I barely hear recession", etc. lol, when it is extremely, widely agreed that it has a glaring midrange recession. (just picking on that thread, it literally happens in every single thread). Now obviously, there's truth to how they feel--it isn't a major issue to them, or even a minor one in some cases, and there's obviously some defensiveness when again is present in every thread. But that kind of dynamic sure can make it hard to sift through what is relatively true, and I'd imagine especially true for newer users.

So it's good to have a neutral thread where people can be pretty direct without immediate opposition. This thread just got entirely derailed unfortunately. Before the last few pages, there's been some valuable sharing going on.

 

[Exekuhtor]

Well articulated negative critique will always be better for me than the positive hype building we already see too much of, look at some reviewers like Soundnews. You cannot take them serious because all they do is hype something up until the next thing comes out.
That being said, bashing a company that "has trained its audience well in paying for exorbitant expensive products", when they are all handmade with extreme care and precision while sounding fantastic is something completely different.

 

[iamoneagain]

Yeah it’s good to be able to express a negative opinion. But it’s another thing to start bashing companies based on false assumptions. And if expressing a negative opinion, try to back up what your expectations were and where they came up short. It can still be very subjective. But sometimes in other threads you’ll get attacked for even saying the slightest negative opinion about the product. It can become like a cult.

 

[feverfive]

It can become like a cult.

I've been a member of head-fi since I was a teenager, and plenty of other hobby fora as well over the years. It never ceases to amaze me how much hobbyists so keenly self-identify with gear/objects. I long ago relaized I'm just not much of a hobbyist. I don't have that kind of obsession with gear, or brands (thgough I am a slight Sony fanboy...at times) for that matter. I'm 100% positive (no sarcasm) that I am the weird one, hahaha.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Man, this hobby is nutz!

Once again, the question of ‘inter-unit variability’ or ‘silent running changes’ raises its ugly head for me, specifically regarding the NDH 30.

I read all the cheesy-ZMF back-and-forth with some defensiveness. Anyone who has read my content knows I’ve been a huge fanboi ever since I received my Auteur during the introductory sale. After a bit of poking around, I found that NDH 30 was one of the cans he was referring to.

$605 from Amazon w/ 30 days to return, what the hell, why not, I’ll show THAT guy!

Except I like them. I really like them. (Thank you Sally Fields.) I posted my first impressions, which started out as ‘…not bad, except for …’ but morphed into ‘…except for the flat headstage and uncomfortable pads, I really admire these, and they are a great value, although they’re maybe a bit more analytical than I prefer.’

Burned in for 2 days, but still the pads sucked. Swapped a bunch of pads and ended up with Ether 2 stock pads as a great match. And now I have to say these sound really good, tuned just a bit warmer. Different than Atrium, but not that far off, except for headstage which is completely different. Actually, they’re closer to my Auteur Classic. Here’s a link to the first post I wrote:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/post-17615486

and this will find all my posts there:

https://www.head-fi.org/search/13445795/?t=post&c[thread]=963439&c[users]=LCMusicLover&o=relevance

But the point of this post is, what’s going on? I’ve read a bigly number of comments here and on other sites which really bash these cans, or at best, damn them with faint praise. Posts from folks I respect and generally agree w/ when they comment on gear I’m familiar with. Also a couple reviews which highlighted the most common complaints— poor bass quality (not quantity) and over-analytical, un-musical or disconnected sound.

And that’s not what I hear. I mean I really like the sound w/ the Ether 2 pads, enough so they’re staying. But that sound isn’t I love these — they’re terrible different versus the sound with stock pads. The signature does rotate a bit — stock sound leans Utopia, while the E2 pads actually pushes things ‘ZMF house-ward’.

Admittedly I prefer them from mScaler/Audio-gd Master 11 than from mScaler/TT2, because of the more musical sound of the former. mScaler/TT2 (as DAC) / Bottlehead Crack ==> 30s is almost too gooey for me w/ the E2 pads though.

But even with the stock pads, I haven’t heard anything like what others are reporting.

So am I insane? Or are all of them? Or did I just happen to put together the perfect chain (from source to pads to my ears and tastes) for these cans? Or is there massive inter-unit variability, and @chesebert and I scored a pair of unicorns? Or, has the manufacturer been silently ’fixing’ these, and we are some of the beneficiaries? Or am I insane?

I’ve run into this conundrum before, and generally never get to a plausible explanation. But I’ll give it another shot.

BTW, anybody have some double-sided adhesive rings, 92mm O.D.? Gotta get those E2 pads to stick

Bottom line, Amazon will get to keep my money

 

[chesebert]

I initially bought 2 pairs to deal with potential unit to unit variance issues. I found one of them to be great and the other one not so much. I then bought another pair, which was more consistent with the one I liked. I returned the not as good sounding one. Unit to unit variance is an issue with all cans.

I ended up buying 2 units for relatively peanuts all things considered.

 

[headstef]

Man, this hobby is nutz!

Once again, the question of ‘inter-unit variability’ or ‘silent running changes’ raises its ugly head for me, specifically regarding the NDH 30.

I read all the cheesy-ZMF back-and-forth with some defensiveness. Anyone who has read my content knows I’ve been a huge fanboi ever since I received my Auteur during the introductory sale. After a bit of poking around, I found that NDH 30 was one of the cans he was referring to.

$605 from Amazon w/ 30 days to return, what the hell, why not, I’ll show THAT guy!

Except I like them. I really like them. (Thank you Sally Fields.) I posted my first impressions, which started out as ‘…not bad, except for …’ but morphed into ‘…except for the flat headstage and uncomfortable pads, I really admire these, and they are a great value, although they’re maybe a bit more analytical than I prefer.’

Burned in for 2 days, but still the pads sucked. Swapped a bunch of pads and ended up with Ether 2 stock pads as a great match. And now I have to say these sound really good, tuned just a bit warmer. Different than Atrium, but not that far off, except for headstage which is completely different. Actually, they’re closer to my Auteur Classic. Here’s a link to the first post I wrote:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/post-17615486

and this will find all my posts there:

https://www.head-fi.org/search/13445795/?t=post&c[thread]=963439&c[users]=LCMusicLover&o=relevance

But the point of this post is, what’s going on? I’ve read a bigly number of comments here and on other sites which really bash these cans, or at best, damn them with faint praise. Posts from folks I respect and generally agree w/ when they comment on gear I’m familiar with. Also a couple reviews which highlighted the most common complaints— poor bass quality (not quantity) and over-analytical, un-musical or disconnected sound.

And that’s not what I hear. I mean I really like the sound w/ the Ether 2 pads, enough so they’re staying. But that sound isn’t I love these — they’re terrible different versus the sound with stock pads. The signature does rotate a bit — stock sound leans Utopia, while the E2 pads actually pushes things ‘ZMF house-ward’.

Admittedly I prefer them from mScaler/Audio-gd Master 11 than from mScaler/TT2, because of the more musical sound of the former. mScaler/TT2 (as DAC) / Bottlehead Crack ==> 30s is almost too gooey for me w/ the E2 pads though.

But even with the stock pads, I haven’t heard anything like what others are reporting.

So am I insane? Or are all of them? Or did I just happen to put together the perfect chain (from source to pads to my ears and tastes) for these cans? Or is there massive inter-unit variability, and @chesebert and I scored a pair of unicorns? Or, has the manufacturer been silently ’fixing’ these, and we are some of the beneficiaries? Or am I insane?

I’ve run into this conundrum before, and generally never get to a plausible explanation. But I’ll give it another shot.

BTW, anybody have some double-sided adhesive rings, 92mm O.D.? Gotta get those E2 pads to stick

Bottom line, Amazon will get to keep my money

No, you are not insane. Your impressions are consistent with at least 95% of all true users of the NDH 30 that have also tested/owned other TOTL headphones.
IMO, some part of the industry/sellers have to fight back against a product that offers all that some others sell for much more money, sometimes at three or more times the price of the "offender". I wouldn't be surprised if the NDH 30 "vanishes" from the market at some point but the easiest way to deal with it now are inaccurate reviews. The more innaccurate, the best: some have seriously declared that the NDH 30 is ...worst than the HD-600/650 (!) and very overpriced (!!) Others, recently, that it is not engaging at all (!!!). Go figure...
Also, a terribly misleading view is spread on purpose: that "accuracy and linearity is not good for musical enjoyment or hi-fi listening". This reality-reversing view humiliates all the efforts of recording and mixing engineers, the efforts of electronics designers, too. Well... I really wish that an "NDH 40" will be even more accurate and linear to come even closer to musical reality and enjoyment. Or a headphone from any competent maker.

 

[Hitorijanae]

I initially bought 2 pairs to deal with potential unit to unit variance issues. I found one of them to be great and the other one not so much. I then bought another pair, which was more consistent with the one I liked. I returned the not as good sounding one. Unit to unit variance is an issue with all cans.

I ended up buying 2 units for relatively peanuts all things considered.

Interesting! I had heard about there being unit variances and silent revisions, but I didn't think it could make that much of a difference! If they're really as good as I'm hearing, I may need to spin the roulette again...

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Man, this hobby is nutz!

Once again, the question of ‘inter-unit variability’ or ‘silent running changes’ raises its ugly head for me, specifically regarding the NDH 30.

I read all the cheesy-ZMF back-and-forth with some defensiveness. Anyone who has read my content knows I’ve been a huge fanboi ever since I received my Auteur during the introductory sale. After a bit of poking around, I found that NDH 30 was one of the cans he was referring to.

$605 from Amazon w/ 30 days to return, what the hell, why not, I’ll show THAT guy!

Except I like them. I really like them. (Thank you Sally Fields.) I posted my first impressions, which started out as ‘…not bad, except for …’ but morphed into ‘…except for the flat headstage and uncomfortable pads, I really admire these, and they are a great value, although they’re maybe a bit more analytical than I prefer.’

Burned in for 2 days, but still the pads sucked. Swapped a bunch of pads and ended up with Ether 2 stock pads as a great match. And now I have to say these sound really good, tuned just a bit warmer. Different than Atrium, but not that far off, except for headstage which is completely different. Actually, they’re closer to my Auteur Classic. Here’s a link to the first post I wrote:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/post-17615486

and this will find all my posts there:

https://www.head-fi.org/search/13445795/?t=post&c[thread]=963439&c[users]=LCMusicLover&o=relevance

But the point of this post is, what’s going on? I’ve read a bigly number of comments here and on other sites which really bash these cans, or at best, damn them with faint praise. Posts from folks I respect and generally agree w/ when they comment on gear I’m familiar with. Also a couple reviews which highlighted the most common complaints— poor bass quality (not quantity) and over-analytical, un-musical or disconnected sound.

And that’s not what I hear. I mean I really like the sound w/ the Ether 2 pads, enough so they’re staying. But that sound isn’t I love these — they’re terrible different versus the sound with stock pads. The signature does rotate a bit — stock sound leans Utopia, while the E2 pads actually pushes things ‘ZMF house-ward’.

Admittedly I prefer them from mScaler/Audio-gd Master 11 than from mScaler/TT2, because of the more musical sound of the former. mScaler/TT2 (as DAC) / Bottlehead Crack ==> 30s is almost too gooey for me w/ the E2 pads though.

But even with the stock pads, I haven’t heard anything like what others are reporting.

So am I insane? Or are all of them? Or did I just happen to put together the perfect chain (from source to pads to my ears and tastes) for these cans? Or is there massive inter-unit variability, and @chesebert and I scored a pair of unicorns? Or, has the manufacturer been silently ’fixing’ these, and we are some of the beneficiaries? Or am I insane?

I’ve run into this conundrum before, and generally never get to a plausible explanation. But I’ll give it another shot.

BTW, anybody have some double-sided adhesive rings, 92mm O.D.? Gotta get those E2 pads to stick

Bottom line, Amazon will get to keep my money

I think, because in the end we back again with subjective preference (and synergy to our set up). I tried NDH-30 several times, included when they still pre-released here in Indonesia (I got invitation). Definitely an improve version than NDH-20, but clearly far from a giant killer, and still have various win/lose in most sectors against other headphones in this price range.

What truly surprised me was Sony studio MDR MV-1. Crazy value for the price, neutral, clean, wide soundstage, and still have fun thumpy bass. Build quality also rather awesome and very comfort to use.

 

[LCMusicLover]

I initially bought 2 pairs to deal with potential unit to unit variance issues - I buy multiple when I buy from Amazon. I found one of them to be great and the other one not so much. I then bought another pair, which was more consistent with the one I liked. I returned the not as good sounding one. Unit to unit variance is an issue with all cans.

I ended up buying 2 units for relatively peanuts all things considered.

There’s the challenge the ‘variability’ hypothesis presents — any evidence is anecdotal.

You need to find 100 folks who either love or hate them, then have them swap

I think, because in the end we back again with subjective preference (and synergy to our set up). I tried NDH-30 several times, included when they still pre-released here in Indonesia (I got invitation). Definitely an improve version than NDH-20, but clearly far from a giant killer, and still have various win/lose in most sectors against other headphones in this price range. …

You’re arguing for an explanation that I didn’t present:

Are listeners’ personal tastes (reinforced/enhanced/exacerbated/whatever by their equipment choices) so different that the same headphone can be lauded for its superior performance and value by some and, at the same time, derided for its fatal sonic weaknesses and dismissed as not even competitive in its own price range by others?

Honestly, I’m not sure which way Occam leans on this one.

@headstef — yours is food for thought. Still chewing.

 

[chesebert]

There’s the challenge the ‘variability’ hypothesis presents — any evidence is anecdotal.

You need to find 100 folks who either love or hate them, then have them swap

You’re arguing for an explanation that I don’t present:

Are listeners’ personal tastes (reinforced/enhanced/exacerbated/whatever by their equipment choices) so different that the same headphone can be lauded for its superior performance and value by some and, at the same time, derided for its fatal sonic weaknesses and dismissed as not even competitive in its own price range by others?

Honestly, I’m not sure which way Occam leans on this one.

@headstef — yours is food for thought. Still chewing.

I agree. N of 3 is way too small to draw any meaningful conclusions. I was simply giving you my data point.

 

[llamaluv]

Wait, I came here for the bashing of overpriced, luxury headphones in the spirit of light-hearted malice and schadenfreude.

But the conversation has turned towards something else altogether.

What happened?