[giorgio_lantos]

Hi,

tldr: Are the Spiral Ear 5-Way Ultimates really the very best I can get, if I plan on listening to 320kb mp3s from my iPhone X without any external devices such as amps/DACs/DAPs?

To be clear, I'm not looking for someone to do any work for me looking for information. I'm perhaps looking for owners of the SE5-Way Ults and owners of the UE18+ Pro to tell me what they think about the source matching qualities of both CIEMs, in order to try to make a more educated decision on which to ruin my wallet with. I don't intend to buy CIEMs ever again unless there is a huge technological improvement that somehow revolutionizes the sound, so even if there is only a minute difference between the two, I would consider it worth it to get the better one.

--- If you're looking to kill time and want a more detailed explanation of the situation ---

I've always loved IEMs/audio but have always struggled because the wires break so easily. So I've always wanted a CIEM with a detachable MMCX cable, and just became able to take the plunge.

1. I'm looking for something portable, that I can just plug into my iPhone or computer. iPhone uses thunderbolt, computer uses standard 3.5mm. I was thinking to use an adapter, but that might ruin the quality, so perhaps two separate cables?
2. I don't want to use an amp or a DAC or a DAP or any of that stuff. I just want to plug it into my phone and listen. That said, would it be a stupid idea to get top of the line CIEMs? It is unclear to me how much of an impact these external devices have when used with CIEMs. I suppose it would depend on the source matching qualities of each individual CIEM. But also, I don't know how great of a source an iPhone X or a Macbook Pro is.
3. I like all music, but I suppose Daft Punk and Capsule are favorites (Techno, probably heavily synthetic)
4. The more noise isolation the better

As such, CIEMs I've been looking at are:

Ultimate Ears 18+ Pro
Spiral Ears 5-Way Ultimate

I'm on the fence, because the Ultimate Ears have the advantage of using a digital scanner instead of a physical mold, and their office is extremely close to me, so it would be very convenient and fit issues would be very very unlikely. That on top of being a big, reputable company with very high-ranked CIEMs is what stood out to me.

However, it seems like Spiral Ears have the best CIEMs, hands down, in addition to having the best isolation of any CIEM (which is important to me). At least, according to average_joe from theheadphoneslist. Yet, Spiral Ears is based in Poland, and it will cost a few hundred more to purchase these. And they still use physical molds, which might have fit issues. But I figured, if I go with physical molds, might as well go with the best. Also worried about reputability, because the only thing I have to go off of is forums and basically three reviewers from the same website because no one else can afford multiple CIEMs. Could just be some random company that will steal my money, though I doubt it.

So the question here is, are the Spiral Ear 5-Way Ultimates really the very best I can get, if I plan on listening to 320kb mp3s from my iPhone X without any external devices such as amps/DACs/DAPs?

Here are some rankings for anyone who is interested:
http://theheadphonelist.com/ranking-the-stars-flinkenicks-2017-iem-flagship-shootout/
http://theheadphonelist.com/ciem_review/fit-bat-flagship-iems-shootout/
http://theheadphonelist.com/custom-in-ear-monitors-reviews-list/
http://theheadphonelist.com/rank-8-ultimate-ears-ue18-pro/
http://theheadphonelist.com/rank-1-spiral-ear-5-way-ultimate/
http://theheadphonelist.com/ciem_review/spiral-ear-se-5-way-ultimate-transparency-redefined/

As you can see, the UE products and SE5-Way Ultimate are close, but at least on theheadphoneslist, the SE5-Way Ultimates are always on top.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts.

 

[474194]

If no external devices, I would probably look into the Warbler Prelude.

I would probably rule out SE5U because of the hoops you have to go through and the newly released EE Phantom will overtake it's space as well as it's #1 ranking.

I love the 3d scanning and pickup at the Irvine HQ, but the UE18+ may require more power to drive properly.

I do enjoy my iPhone, 2-wire and UE10 pairing. I would probably lean towards Prelude if I was in the market without needing an external DAC. It's #4 on THL BTW.

I don't login much anymore so best of luck in your search.

 

[giorgio_lantos]

Very interesting and informative, thank you!!

Then perhaps if I decide to buy a DAC I will go for the EE Phantom. And I will look into the Prelude.

I appreciate your time in helping me out, thank you

 

[giorgio_lantos]

It's hard to find information on the Empire Ears Phantoms. Is there some kind of consensus that they're looking like the new very top of the line? New technology?

 

[474194]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/war...a-labour-of-love.845592/page-10#post-14063450

You may also want to consider 2-pin versus MMCX for the cabling. I made the mistake of going MMCX for the UE18+, but UE was kind enough to change to non-recessed 2-pin at no charge. 2-pin is more reliable and has more of a critical mass.

The Prelude should scale well from iPhone to portable DAC to desktop DAC since it does not use a crossover and it's a good value. I will probably replace my UE10 with Prelude for DAC-less config one day.

The Phantom is only 300 more than the UE18+ so it will be a good choice if you go all out with a DAC.

The only justification for the UE18+ besides the 3d scan and locality is the 30% discount they offer during Black Friday.

Cheers

 

[474194]

It's hard to find information on the Empire Ears Phantoms. Is there some kind of consensus that they're looking like the new very top of the line? New technology?

You can start here:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ran...duction-and-reviews-on-page-1.826876/page-544

The person that created the thread and reviewer on THL help consult with Empire Ears on their interpretation of the ideal CIEM. This is the same person that ranked the SE5U #1.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/empire-ears-discussion-impressions-formerly-earwerkz.786335/page-783

The new Empire Ears website should be up next week with the new models.

 

[giorgio_lantos]

Thank you for the tip on the 2 pin, and all of the links, I really appreciate the time.

The Phantom looks interesting. I'll admit, it's hard to consider anything but the best when the costs are already so high and the top of the line starts to seem not so far off from something in 4th place. But I suppose that's how you get the bug...

I can warm up to the idea of purchasing a DAC for home use, but nothing ridiculously priced. Maybe $2-300? I know you don't own the Phantoms, but being experienced as you are, would you agree with the probability of something like the following?

Phantom vs. Warbler Prelude: Warbler Win
Phantom + DAC vs. Warbler Prelude: Phantom Win
Phantom + DAC vs. Warbler Prelude + DAC: Phantom Win

If so, by how much do you think the Warbler wins in the DAC-less comparison? Huge difference?

 

[474194]

I think you have two solid choices to look into and how they will fit your signature. The more you research the two, the more you will know how they fit your needs.

I'm not sure how the Phantom will run DAC-less. I'm assuming it will be like the UE18+ and will need power. It will sound fine without, but optimal probably will need some power.

I probably suggest you post in the Prelude thread (link above) since some have listened to both and a few run their Prelude's DAC-less. The posters there are pretty passionate about their Prelude and quite helpful.

Here's a current review of the Prelude:

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/warbler-audio-prelude.22953/reviews#review-19972

The Prelude can stand on it's own regardless of +DAC or -DAC. It's just your preference and tastes. For most, it's complementary since most own multiple CIEMS. All the CIEM's on the list can probably stand on their own.

All opinions here are subjective. Even the rankings. Although it's ranked by a genius, it's still ranked by a human. A lot of the variables can go +-1-3 either way which re-orders the rankings. The Prelude scores quite well.

Deezel177 is a reviewer on THL also:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/war...-a-labour-of-love.845592/page-9#post-14016640

He has not posted an official review yet on THL, but it's a brief one.

Here's ranfan stating how well it works without a DAC:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/war...-a-labour-of-love.845592/page-4#post-13746168

YMMV. I'm not looking for the best, just what best suits my signature and tastes.

I think once you post in the Rankings, EE and Prelude threads, you'll get a better understanding which will suit you best.

 

[474194]

The Phantom is probably the safe choice if you want peace of mind your getting the modern reference standard. The Prelude maybe the optimal choice DAC-less, but is more of a risk.

Anyways, good luck... Going back on hiatus.

 

[giorgio_lantos]

Okay, I understand what you're saying.

Again, thanks a ton, I really appreciate the suggestions and the help. It's going to be a hard decision, but thankfully now I can make a more informed decision..

Have a fun hiatus!

 

[474194]

You may want to edit your post on the Prelude thread and mention external DAC instead of DAC-less. Since, technically, the iPhone has a built-in DAC. I do that myself sometimes.

Plenty of time to edit. The CIEM threads don't get busy until 10PM -10AM since most are in Asia or Europe, so it will take time to get a response. It's slow posting during the day time in our time zone.

 

[491326]

@giorgio_lantos i can't really provide much to the conversation seeing as i just got my first customs myself. I'm curious as to why cables break often for you.
also, from my understanding, the more expensive and high end iems tend to scale far more to good sources than the less expensive stuff. i think getting a dac at some point is a must

3d scanning and pickup at the Irvine HQ

what? i used to live in socal, never knew there so something like that in irvine. i'll get 3d printed customs in the future there i guess

iPhone has a built-in DAC

i believe the iphone x does not have a dac. rather, there's a tiny dac in the lightning to 3.5 mm adapter

 

[giorgio_lantos]

@pithyginger63

i think getting a dac at some point is a must

I'll probably get one eventually, but for now I intend to travel and be out a lot.

I'm curious as to why cables break often for you.

I won't pretend like I'm an angel in treating the stuff I buy with care but I don't do anything that would break a durable item. As such, the cables I've bought are just not durable. I've never owned a high quality IEM, mind you. Back in the day I tried some $200 ones but the cables broke several times, so I gave up on it. Seeing as most CIEMs have detachable cables I don't see this being a problem anymore.

what? i used to live in socal, never knew there so something like that in irvine. i'll get 3d printed customs in the future there i guess

Yeah, it's pretty cool. They actually scan your ear canal with a digital scanner, open up your digital impressions in 3D modeling software, edit it, and print out the shell. Apparently they've received a lot less fit issues since implementing the process. Here's a video.

 

[Dulalala]

i believe the iphone x does not have a dac. rather, there's a tiny dac in the lightning to 3.5 mm adapter

I'm nitpicking here but the iPhoneX does have an internal DAC. It just doesn't have a headphone jack. Speakers in it wouldn't work otherwise.

 

[491326]

I'm nitpicking here but the iPhoneX does have an internal DAC. It just doesn't have a headphone jack. Speakers in it wouldn't work otherwise.

oh right, I use phone speakers so infrequently I forgot they existed