How do you think the FA1 ranks among other 1 BA offerings? In particular, the qdc Neptune since that IMO was pretty decent for the sound, albeit overpriced.
Toranku's Thoughts and Reviews (and target EQ filters!)
- Thread starter toranku
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How do you think the FA1 ranks among other 1 BA offerings? In particular, the qdc Neptune since that IMO was pretty decent for the sound, albeit overpriced.
There aren't a lot of 1BAs that I consider decent. The ones I consider to be great are Etymotics (ER4), fitear f111, hem1. It's been a while since I heard neptune, but from what I remember the Neptune was smooth sounding albeit pretty rolled off at the top end. Going to have to revisit Neptune.
FA1 compared to er4, f111 and hem1, I think the other three performs better especially in terms of tone. Technicalities wise I think the FA1 fares rather average for a 1BA and the hollow sounding vocals definitely bug me a fair bit. The other three have a great grasp on tonality, especially with the hem1.
First Impressions: Kinera IDUN
Bright leaning tonality. Shrill sounding. Odd tone. Thin midrange. Forward treble with decent extension, but is peaky and uneven. Vocals feel sucked out and hollow. Its DD bass is slightly limp sounding but the bass does have ok control. So much wasted potential with its DD bass. Not a pleasant listen, and I struggle to even find a genre that the IDUN can excel in.
Bright leaning tonality. Shrill sounding. Odd tone. Thin midrange. Forward treble with decent extension, but is peaky and uneven. Vocals feel sucked out and hollow. Its DD bass is slightly limp sounding but the bass does have ok control. So much wasted potential with its DD bass. Not a pleasant listen, and I struggle to even find a genre that the IDUN can excel in.
My Personal Test Tracks, Duration Of Testing For Impressions & My Musical Preferences
Like any other critical listener, I have my own set of test tracks to test and compare iems against each other. My tastes are quite all-over-the-place but my main genres are rock, pop & metal. Typically when evaluating an iem to draft my impressions, I give the iem anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour+. My listening level is at a low-medium level as I am all about safe hearing. Sure, turning up the volume would allow me to hear more detail but I believe in evaluating iems in consistent, comfortable volumes. Please note that I DO NOT volume match as of yet - I typically start with my 334 at a certain volume (since I know how loud they are on my dap) then try to match with the iem I am trying to evaluate.
Here are my typical songs and some notes that I critically listen with -
Slash - World on Fire (World on Fire): At the start there is a lead electric guitar riff, followed by the bass guitar and then the toms. I compare the volume of the lead guitar vs bass and discern the texture of the guitars. Bass guitar needs to reach deep yet remain a good distance away from the lead. Vocals then come into the mix and should not blend into the instruments. Brilliance, shine and shimmer on cymbals should be heard. They should not be dark or blur sounding.
Slash - Safari Inn (World on Fire): No vocals. The focus is on the lead guitar's riff. Bass guitar should be present throughout the mix and I evaluate how much bite the lead guitar has. On gear such as the ZMF Verite, the lead guitar does not have enough bite and tends to sound blunt and the imaging would be a little hazy.
Steve Vai - Tender Surrender (Where The Wild Things Are): Like any Steve Vai riff, the emotional aspect of the riff should be built up. Cymbals are well mastered on this album and cymbals should shine and shimmer as well as being kept a good distance behind and away from Vai. The bass guitar should always be heard in the background and respectable bass texture is heard. When Vai goes into whammies there needs to be enough bite and crunch, as if the guitar is screaming in agony. At the very start there is a short section where the crowd goes into applause - the crowd must be in front and distinct from Vai when he starts playing.
Rei Yasuda - Classy: Yasuda is a female american-japanese singer that has a more mature and deeper timbre. The powerful bassline immediately starts playing at the start of the song. Smooth IEMs tend to lose texture in the bassline and too many BA iems tends to be overlimp and the bassline loses authority. IEMs that are bloated in the midbass will have a noticeable bloat in the bassline. Yasuda then starts singing. I access the tone of her voice through the iem. In the background of the single, there are a few cymbals and synths - smooth iems will gloss over the detail and shimmer. However the bassline and Yasuda's voice should be dominating the mix, - everything else is behind.
Paramore - Misery Business (Riot!): A song that will confuse a lot of iems during its chorus due to its subpar mastering. The better IEMs will separate the instruments and Hayley's voice from each other. The toms should always maintain respectable snap and authority throughout. A lot of bright IEMs tend to sound congested at the chorus - where the cymbals start dominating the mix and everything is thrown into chaos.
ONE OK ROCK - Bombs Away (Ambitions): 30 seconds into the track, there should be a very deep & short bassline heard. It then repeats itself 6 seconds later. That deep note should layer itself distinctly from the electric guitar on the right as well Taka's (lead singer) voice. At the start of the bridge at 0:54, there is a series of deep basslines. Those basslines should be somewhat impactfully heard AND felt. Guitars should maintain good bite and cymbals should not be dominating the track, remaining distinct from the other instruments and from Taka's voice.
ONE OK ROCK - Taking Off (Ambitions): 9 seconds into the song, the bassline, toms, cymbals and rhythm guitar should not sound congested together. Muddy or iems not resolving enough will immediately fail this part.
ONE OK ROCK - Mikansei Kuokyuokyoku (Niche Syndrome): This track tests for brightness. Cymbals will dominate the chorus if the iem is bright.
ONE OK ROCK - Sekenshirazu no Uchuhikoshi (Zankyo Reference): Lots and lots of synths in this track. Everything should layer perfectly with good distance from every note/sound. There is a synths on the left channel that starts from 0:22. The synth should image backwards and slowly to the left. The chorus starts at 0:44 where the kick drum does quick triplets on the left channel that extends to the center image. The triplets should always image closest to me with Taka's voice behind. Separation is a key factor to this track - any iem that does not have enough separation will sound congested, especially at 1:54 where there are a bunch of synths going on. The left and right widths have to have enough distance from one another.
LiSA - Empty MERMAiD (LiTTLE DEViL PARADE): Typical modern JPop. Lisa's voice should be bodied with warmth. When the chorus hits, the rhythm guitar and cymbals are in the background. Nothing should sound fatiguing or sibilant.
Joe Satriani - Crowd Chant (Super Colossal): A very well mastered track. When the Guitar Wizard does his short riffs and the crowd follows, the crowd's voice should always be in front of the guitar. The larger the distance and more distinct, the better. The hihat is also found at the back at all times - it should not present and audible. IEMs without good highs will have the hihat sounding dull and veiled. It's as if the hihat is a lightbulb - getting struck and then disappearing quickly and the process repeats. The better the imaging of the instruments and soundstage, the more physical space is imagined which is what I look for. As usual, the guitar needs to have enough bite and crunch here.
Judas Priest - Firepower (Firepower): IEMs with recessed lower mids will show. Rob's voice should be easily heard in contrast to the guitars and cymbals. A thin midrange will cause Rob to sound shrill. Speed is important here - a slow driver will show itself.
Eminem - Killshot: Quite well recorded. Eminem should sound clear and distinct from everything else. There is also a deep bassline that BA iems often fail to properly replicate.
Babymetal - Rondo of Nightmare (BABYMETAL): Probably the best mastered in any babymetal song, ever (babymetal songs are mastered like crap). The lead singer Suzuka has a powerful voice that cuts through metal effortlessly. Her voice should not sound too piercing or bright. During the chorus there is a piano in the mix as well as cymbals being struck. IEMs poor in layering and imaging (and tonal balance) will lose the piano totally.
Aimer - Kimi no Matsu -acoustic ver.- (Brave Shine Single): Aimer's voice is very unique. Airy, husky and thick is her timbre. IEMs with a lot of air will catch her breaths when she is singing. IEMs with a thin midrange will make her voice sound thin - which is not natural. In this track it also exposes vocal sibilance - Aimer's "s" and "t" in her vocals will be too much if there is sibilance.
These are my usual test tracks I run the iem through. However not every iem will be suited with my type of music - and that's fine - since there is no one-size-fits-all. Occasionally I encounter iems that just don't work with my type of music, so I run those iems through vocal jazz (Diana Krall, Stacey Kent etc), jazz bops or jazz funk fusions. I do not listen to orchestral and classical.
Like any other critical listener, I have my own set of test tracks to test and compare iems against each other. My tastes are quite all-over-the-place but my main genres are rock, pop & metal. Typically when evaluating an iem to draft my impressions, I give the iem anywhere from 20 minutes to an hour+. My listening level is at a low-medium level as I am all about safe hearing. Sure, turning up the volume would allow me to hear more detail but I believe in evaluating iems in consistent, comfortable volumes. Please note that I DO NOT volume match as of yet - I typically start with my 334 at a certain volume (since I know how loud they are on my dap) then try to match with the iem I am trying to evaluate.
Here are my typical songs and some notes that I critically listen with -
Slash - World on Fire (World on Fire): At the start there is a lead electric guitar riff, followed by the bass guitar and then the toms. I compare the volume of the lead guitar vs bass and discern the texture of the guitars. Bass guitar needs to reach deep yet remain a good distance away from the lead. Vocals then come into the mix and should not blend into the instruments. Brilliance, shine and shimmer on cymbals should be heard. They should not be dark or blur sounding.
Slash - Safari Inn (World on Fire): No vocals. The focus is on the lead guitar's riff. Bass guitar should be present throughout the mix and I evaluate how much bite the lead guitar has. On gear such as the ZMF Verite, the lead guitar does not have enough bite and tends to sound blunt and the imaging would be a little hazy.
Steve Vai - Tender Surrender (Where The Wild Things Are): Like any Steve Vai riff, the emotional aspect of the riff should be built up. Cymbals are well mastered on this album and cymbals should shine and shimmer as well as being kept a good distance behind and away from Vai. The bass guitar should always be heard in the background and respectable bass texture is heard. When Vai goes into whammies there needs to be enough bite and crunch, as if the guitar is screaming in agony. At the very start there is a short section where the crowd goes into applause - the crowd must be in front and distinct from Vai when he starts playing.
Rei Yasuda - Classy: Yasuda is a female american-japanese singer that has a more mature and deeper timbre. The powerful bassline immediately starts playing at the start of the song. Smooth IEMs tend to lose texture in the bassline and too many BA iems tends to be overlimp and the bassline loses authority. IEMs that are bloated in the midbass will have a noticeable bloat in the bassline. Yasuda then starts singing. I access the tone of her voice through the iem. In the background of the single, there are a few cymbals and synths - smooth iems will gloss over the detail and shimmer. However the bassline and Yasuda's voice should be dominating the mix, - everything else is behind.
Paramore - Misery Business (Riot!): A song that will confuse a lot of iems during its chorus due to its subpar mastering. The better IEMs will separate the instruments and Hayley's voice from each other. The toms should always maintain respectable snap and authority throughout. A lot of bright IEMs tend to sound congested at the chorus - where the cymbals start dominating the mix and everything is thrown into chaos.
ONE OK ROCK - Bombs Away (Ambitions): 30 seconds into the track, there should be a very deep & short bassline heard. It then repeats itself 6 seconds later. That deep note should layer itself distinctly from the electric guitar on the right as well Taka's (lead singer) voice. At the start of the bridge at 0:54, there is a series of deep basslines. Those basslines should be somewhat impactfully heard AND felt. Guitars should maintain good bite and cymbals should not be dominating the track, remaining distinct from the other instruments and from Taka's voice.
ONE OK ROCK - Taking Off (Ambitions): 9 seconds into the song, the bassline, toms, cymbals and rhythm guitar should not sound congested together. Muddy or iems not resolving enough will immediately fail this part.
ONE OK ROCK - Mikansei Kuokyuokyoku (Niche Syndrome): This track tests for brightness. Cymbals will dominate the chorus if the iem is bright.
ONE OK ROCK - Sekenshirazu no Uchuhikoshi (Zankyo Reference): Lots and lots of synths in this track. Everything should layer perfectly with good distance from every note/sound. There is a synths on the left channel that starts from 0:22. The synth should image backwards and slowly to the left. The chorus starts at 0:44 where the kick drum does quick triplets on the left channel that extends to the center image. The triplets should always image closest to me with Taka's voice behind. Separation is a key factor to this track - any iem that does not have enough separation will sound congested, especially at 1:54 where there are a bunch of synths going on. The left and right widths have to have enough distance from one another.
LiSA - Empty MERMAiD (LiTTLE DEViL PARADE): Typical modern JPop. Lisa's voice should be bodied with warmth. When the chorus hits, the rhythm guitar and cymbals are in the background. Nothing should sound fatiguing or sibilant.
Joe Satriani - Crowd Chant (Super Colossal): A very well mastered track. When the Guitar Wizard does his short riffs and the crowd follows, the crowd's voice should always be in front of the guitar. The larger the distance and more distinct, the better. The hihat is also found at the back at all times - it should not present and audible. IEMs without good highs will have the hihat sounding dull and veiled. It's as if the hihat is a lightbulb - getting struck and then disappearing quickly and the process repeats. The better the imaging of the instruments and soundstage, the more physical space is imagined which is what I look for. As usual, the guitar needs to have enough bite and crunch here.
Judas Priest - Firepower (Firepower): IEMs with recessed lower mids will show. Rob's voice should be easily heard in contrast to the guitars and cymbals. A thin midrange will cause Rob to sound shrill. Speed is important here - a slow driver will show itself.
Eminem - Killshot: Quite well recorded. Eminem should sound clear and distinct from everything else. There is also a deep bassline that BA iems often fail to properly replicate.
Babymetal - Rondo of Nightmare (BABYMETAL): Probably the best mastered in any babymetal song, ever (babymetal songs are mastered like crap). The lead singer Suzuka has a powerful voice that cuts through metal effortlessly. Her voice should not sound too piercing or bright. During the chorus there is a piano in the mix as well as cymbals being struck. IEMs poor in layering and imaging (and tonal balance) will lose the piano totally.
Aimer - Kimi no Matsu -acoustic ver.- (Brave Shine Single): Aimer's voice is very unique. Airy, husky and thick is her timbre. IEMs with a lot of air will catch her breaths when she is singing. IEMs with a thin midrange will make her voice sound thin - which is not natural. In this track it also exposes vocal sibilance - Aimer's "s" and "t" in her vocals will be too much if there is sibilance.
These are my usual test tracks I run the iem through. However not every iem will be suited with my type of music - and that's fine - since there is no one-size-fits-all. Occasionally I encounter iems that just don't work with my type of music, so I run those iems through vocal jazz (Diana Krall, Stacey Kent etc), jazz bops or jazz funk fusions. I do not listen to orchestral and classical.
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OverlordRush
500+ Head-Fier
Got the chance to try z1r yet? I like the sound signature and stage, but I'm a bit disappointed with the resolution. I wonder what you think...
Will be trying it tomorrow! I've heard a lot of things about it. Trying to keep an open mind to reduce bias...
Ricky64
100+ Head-Fier
Hi;
I'm typically skeptical on folks that start threads on their own impressions, but I would have to say you have won me over. I think my tastes are in line with yours...
I have a PP8 that just isn't to my taste. I also have a Final D8000 (it is to my taste) and a Final E5000 (love the timber of acoustic instruments, but bass is uncontrolled and I feel I am missing quite a bit of information).
I auditioned a Tia Fourte for awhile. With massive EQ, I was able to tame the upper midrange and treble, and get a sound that I really enjoyed. I've had a hard time wanting to support 64Audio as they led the way with aggressive pricing. I have a Sony credit card and have a $1000 credit. I had been planning on getting the 1ZR, but as I'm hearing reports about it, I don't think I'm interested.
I'm curious whether the Jomo Trinity Brass could be the ticket (not that it's pricing isn't aggressive) with a fair amount of eq to boost the lower midrange a bit and reduce the nasal upper mids. It seems as if it should be technically quite capable. I feel my WM 1z does eq pretty well.
Similarly, I have been thinking about the Dita Fealty or Faudio Major.
I listen mainly to jazz, but will do rock, female vocal pop, and classical, so I'm all over the map.
I just can't stand the fact that with my PP8, Coltrane's tenor sax sounds synthesized and piano notes have no weight. With my E5000, female vocals sound underwater.
Thanks, and keep up the good work!
I'm typically skeptical on folks that start threads on their own impressions, but I would have to say you have won me over. I think my tastes are in line with yours...
I have a PP8 that just isn't to my taste. I also have a Final D8000 (it is to my taste) and a Final E5000 (love the timber of acoustic instruments, but bass is uncontrolled and I feel I am missing quite a bit of information).
I auditioned a Tia Fourte for awhile. With massive EQ, I was able to tame the upper midrange and treble, and get a sound that I really enjoyed. I've had a hard time wanting to support 64Audio as they led the way with aggressive pricing. I have a Sony credit card and have a $1000 credit. I had been planning on getting the 1ZR, but as I'm hearing reports about it, I don't think I'm interested.
I'm curious whether the Jomo Trinity Brass could be the ticket (not that it's pricing isn't aggressive) with a fair amount of eq to boost the lower midrange a bit and reduce the nasal upper mids. It seems as if it should be technically quite capable. I feel my WM 1z does eq pretty well.
Similarly, I have been thinking about the Dita Fealty or Faudio Major.
I listen mainly to jazz, but will do rock, female vocal pop, and classical, so I'm all over the map.
I just can't stand the fact that with my PP8, Coltrane's tenor sax sounds synthesized and piano notes have no weight. With my E5000, female vocals sound underwater.
Thanks, and keep up the good work!
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Mimouille
Headphoneus Supremus
I used to own the PP8 and found it sometimes thin and unnatural. The Fourte just sounds off. The Trinity Brass didn't impress me...all that tech and money for what? The upcoming FAudio prototype Y is IMHO better with the same configuration. The Sony Z1R has a real issue in the mids. FAudio major is nice...but not at 2k or so.
Thank you for your kind words! The more I get into audio, I realise that there isn't a 1 iem/headphone that can do all sorts of music. And with different album recordings, some artists can really use a warmer (and perhaps darker) tone for their tracks. For example with jazz I seem to enjoy it best with a diffuse type of sound (Etymotics, Sony EX1000 & HD800s) while with rock I like an aggressive but balanced signature (slight v perhaps?). In some rock albums I also use warm and smooth signatures. I guess thats the fun of iems and headphones, where they seem like they are created for specific applications/purposes.
Have you demo'd the trinity brass? It's a little weird in the sense that it really isn't coherent and it isnt afraid to show that. Bass, mids and treble contrast each other a lot. Dita on the other hand can be quite a hit/miss with the way they present the stage since width tends to be small. Dita has a somewhat speaker-like stage where the stage doesnt wrap around your ears. Major...I dont think its a safe blind buy. The sound may be a little too laidback and uninspiring for some....
While I may write many impressions to give people a brief idea of the sound, its still difficult to imagine how things sound like without hearing it for yourself. Plus some people have different interpretations of descriptors/terms and ultimately also different hearing.
First Impressions: Sony IER-Z1R
Sony has had quite a decent run with iems. From the (newly acclaimed) budget MH755 to the recent Sony M9, they have received quite a fair bit of praise from the audio community. The IER Z1R is their new flagship with a weird configuration (Sony always does weird things...) of 2DD 1BA where the BA handles the midrange, 1 (5mm) DD handles the tweeter and the other (12mm) DD is a full range.
To my ears the Z1R is treble boosted and subbass boosted (V/U-shape). Z1R's bass has impressive response. I find that Z1R's bass has more of a focus on the subbass rather than midbass. Midbass is always tight and has very good speed. I do not hear any discernible bloat or bloom - rather the bass remains well controlled with great control on decay speeds. Thats not to say it's midbass is neutral however - its still slightly boosted compared to a neutral DD bass response like the EX800ST.
Z1R's mids are thin sounding. I find that tone actually skews slightly towards the upper frequencies. Due to the bass having not as much midbass boost, the thin mids work better with the tight and controlled bass. A lot of Hybrids out there have bloat in the bass and with thin mids, incoherency due to perceived contrast in thickness/volume is audible. Electric guitars have good bite and crunch, though they lack body when compared to EX1000 or my near field speakers.
Treble is a little uneven and quite splashy. There's a good response to when sticks contact cymbals and there's a lot of shine and shimmer, but I can't help but feel the treble is too splashy. On some tracks the cymbals can dominate the mix, but the level of separation is great so poorly mastered songs like Paramore's Misery Business don't sound congested. I think splashiness can be a hit/miss thing with people. I personally do not like a splashy cymbal especially when the treble note is a little larger than the vocals itself at times.
Technicalities wise I think this is where it shines. Soundstage is wide (but depth can be improved, standard iem problem). Level of layering and separation is impressive, perhaps due to the tight midbass tuning acting as a great contrast against its splashy highs. Imaging is precise, especially since the attack is quite sharp. Overall the Z1R's tuning is typical "hifi" but the thin mids and splashy highs can deter some away.
Sony has had quite a decent run with iems. From the (newly acclaimed) budget MH755 to the recent Sony M9, they have received quite a fair bit of praise from the audio community. The IER Z1R is their new flagship with a weird configuration (Sony always does weird things...) of 2DD 1BA where the BA handles the midrange, 1 (5mm) DD handles the tweeter and the other (12mm) DD is a full range.
To my ears the Z1R is treble boosted and subbass boosted (V/U-shape). Z1R's bass has impressive response. I find that Z1R's bass has more of a focus on the subbass rather than midbass. Midbass is always tight and has very good speed. I do not hear any discernible bloat or bloom - rather the bass remains well controlled with great control on decay speeds. Thats not to say it's midbass is neutral however - its still slightly boosted compared to a neutral DD bass response like the EX800ST.
Z1R's mids are thin sounding. I find that tone actually skews slightly towards the upper frequencies. Due to the bass having not as much midbass boost, the thin mids work better with the tight and controlled bass. A lot of Hybrids out there have bloat in the bass and with thin mids, incoherency due to perceived contrast in thickness/volume is audible. Electric guitars have good bite and crunch, though they lack body when compared to EX1000 or my near field speakers.
Treble is a little uneven and quite splashy. There's a good response to when sticks contact cymbals and there's a lot of shine and shimmer, but I can't help but feel the treble is too splashy. On some tracks the cymbals can dominate the mix, but the level of separation is great so poorly mastered songs like Paramore's Misery Business don't sound congested. I think splashiness can be a hit/miss thing with people. I personally do not like a splashy cymbal especially when the treble note is a little larger than the vocals itself at times.
Technicalities wise I think this is where it shines. Soundstage is wide (but depth can be improved, standard iem problem). Level of layering and separation is impressive, perhaps due to the tight midbass tuning acting as a great contrast against its splashy highs. Imaging is precise, especially since the attack is quite sharp. Overall the Z1R's tuning is typical "hifi" but the thin mids and splashy highs can deter some away.
Ricky64
100+ Head-Fier
This sounds so much like the MDR-1ZR headphone.
This sounds soooo much like the MDR 1ZR headphone. Sony likes their bass (so do I), but use a recessed midrange and splashy treble to show off imaging capabilities in a closed headphone or iem. To me, the metallic edge the MDR 1ZR placed of female vocals was a non starter for me...
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I've actually not tried the MDR Z1R on my own gear yet. That piques my interest. I've not heard a proper can that sounds like near field speakers yet
Mimouille
Headphoneus Supremus
That is kind of how I hear it. I think the overall results is just too far from sounding like actual music to work for me. I mean, the staging and bass are super impressive, but voices don't sound like that. It is not just a matter of taste, they just don't.
OverlordRush
500+ Head-Fier
I think the Z1R video shown at the sony event says the BA is used as a tweeter and the 5mm dd is a super tweeter.
I dont know the whole story to the config (I dont look at the z1r thread or anything), but the z1r does have great treble extension, perhaps a little too peaky which is what's causing the splashiness. Something has to be done to the mids as well - it's arguably the biggest flaw of the Z1R. Z2R soon?
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