[Raketen]

nvm

 

[toranku]

Would you consider M9 tonaly similar with N3 with less bass? Or what you consider an upgrade from N3 with less midbass and better technicality? Thanx

Yeah, N3 has more bass than M9. They do share some similar characteristics in tone. I'd say N3 has the upper hand in dynamics but everything else M9 has the lead. If you like N3, perhaps you can buy a used M9 to test it out. They share the similar sony tuning DNA

 

[Raketen]

Yeah, N3 has more bass than M9. They do share some similar characteristics in tone. I'd say N3 has the upper hand in dynamics but everything else M9 has the lead. If you like N3, perhaps you can buy a used M9 to test it out. They share the similar sony tuning DNA

What do you think about PP8 for that request? the FR is similar on Crin's comparator. (I was wondering aloud about it in previous post but deleted since I haven't tried & wasn't the person being asked)

I guess the problem with removing the bass from the N3 it completely changes what that signature ends up sounding like (based on other IEMs I have heard like the EST though it rises later than 2khz than n3). For me the M9 almost sounds like it has more midbass since it doesn't have the slight V-shape of N3- but since it has fuller mids overall maybe would be less bothersome for someone that finds N3 midbass annoying IDK.

Dunu 3001Pro almost looks the part, FR-wise.

also @Skylaze have you tried using wide bore tips on the n3?

 

[buonassi]

Thabks for chiming in on the tone! Appreciate it. I was not aware of that EQ Q factor tidbit...I'll have to look further into this. Was under the impression that parameters like this are all standardised

Well, I can confirm that REW on Mac and Neutron for Android have identical Q factors. If I build the comp curves on these two platforms and note the summed curve with similar XY scale, they match perfectly.

I think you used Room EQ Wizard with the 'house curve' summing to generate these files, right?

 

[toranku]

Well, I can confirm that REW on Mac and Neutron for Android have identical Q factors. If I build the comp curves on these two platforms and note the summed curve with similar XY scale, they match perfectly.

I think you used Room EQ Wizard with the 'house curve' summing to generate these files, right?

Yup, used the house curve feature. Its not super accurate but it gets roughly there with its prediction

 

[Skylaze]

What do you think about PP8 for that request? the FR is similar on Crin's comparator. (I was wondering aloud about it in previous post but deleted since I haven't tried & wasn't the person being asked)

I guess the problem with removing the bass from the N3 it completely changes what that signature ends up sounding like (based on other IEMs I have heard like the EST though it rises later than 2khz than n3). For me the M9 almost sounds like it has more midbass since it doesn't have the slight V-shape of N3- but since it has fuller mids overall maybe would be less bothersome for someone that finds N3 midbass annoying IDK.

Dunu 3001Pro almost looks the part, FR-wise.

also @Skylaze have you tried using wide bore tips on the n3?

I have tried another wide bore tips on N3 (Ortofon, E-horn, etc) but for me still sony hybrid seal and sound the best in to my ear (of course the good seal cause more bass emphasis too). I use tork eq on N3 and decrease little bit of the upper mid lift and mid bass reduction, it worked very well
I have tried/have other IEM (oxygen, S8, ex800,etc), but still i found n3 mids the best tone wise, thick but not blunted for vocal female / uppermid for me.

Also fit wise, do you think M9 seal with similar air pressure level as N3? it's a bit strange question. But usually my ear get hurt after using non-vented BA (ex: moondrop S8, noble katana).
Many people say PP8 as "technical flex IEM", so i think it will sound very different with N3 or M9 despite the graph

Yeah, N3 has more bass than M9. They do share some similar characteristics in tone. I'd say N3 has the upper hand in dynamics but everything else M9 has the lead. If you like N3, perhaps you can buy a used M9 to test it out. They share the similar sony tuning DNA

Thanx, i will look chance to demo / buy used one

 

[Raketen]

I have tried/have other IEM (oxygen, S8, ex800,etc), but still i found n3 mids the best tone wise, thick but not blunted for vocal female / uppermid for me.

Also fit wise, do you think M9 seal with similar air pressure level as N3? it's a bit strange question. But usually my ear get hurt after using non-vented BA (ex: moondrop S8, noble katana).

Hmm, I haven't had that problem with either IEM but I recall some comments in the M9 thread mentioning struggle with finding a good tip and insertion depth and that kind of sealing/vacuum effect but seemed like people were able to find solutions. I don't think M9 has any vents, at least not obvious visible ones.

(another idea for reducing bass on N3 a 'front vent' mod like- james444's fx850 mod for example)

 

[IEMusic]

Hmm, I haven't had that problem with either IEM but I recall some comments in the M9 thread mentioning struggle with finding a good tip and insertion depth and that kind of sealing/vacuum effect but seemed like people were able to find solutions. I don't think M9 has any vents, at least not obvious visible ones.

(another idea for reducing bass on N3 a 'front vent' mod like- james444's fx850 mod for example)

Yeah, there‘s been a lot of talk on the M9 thread about the uncomfortable pressure often created by the tight seal when using silicone tips. There is no venting, but in turn, the isolation is great. This is a solution one member on that thread invented. Stick a needle all the way through both sides of the ear tip core (yellow). It lets air escape (blue arrows), but the silicone material self seals when there is no increased pressure. It’s a very creative hack (not mine).

 

[Jenerics]

Yeah, there‘s been a lot of talk on the M9 thread about the uncomfortable pressure often created by the tight seal when using silicone tips. There is no venting, but in turn, the isolation is great. This is a solution one member on that thread invented. Stick a needle all the way through both sides of the ear tip core (yellow). It lets air escape (blue arrows), but the silicone material self seals when there is no increased pressure. It’s a very creative hack (not mine).

Interesting. The hybrid silicone tips on my M7’s create the same suction problem and make the sound different depending on how they are inserted and how much they move during listening. I’ve looked but could not find if anyone has tried using the Z1R silicone tips on the M7/M9 as I always thought that the raised dots on the outer edge of those was to help with breaking the vacuum seal. I’m currently using Dekoni Mercury and they have less base response to my ears.

 

[Skylaze]

Yeah, there‘s been a lot of talk on the M9 thread about the uncomfortable pressure often created by the tight seal when using silicone tips. There is no venting, but in turn, the isolation is great. This is a solution one member on that thread invented. Stick a needle all the way through both sides of the ear tip core (yellow). It lets air escape (blue arrows), but the silicone material self seals when there is no increased pressure. It’s a very creative hack (not mine).

I have done this mod in past on sony mh755, even thought it DD, i got "ventless pressure" from it.
It become easly detached from your ear and decrease isolation from outside, sometimes I need readjust to my ear to sound proper again.
Probably i do something from the mod wrong, IDK, too much hassle for me, already sacrifice 3 pair of eartips for it.
Thanx for the suggestion, appreciate it

Hmm, I haven't had that problem with either IEM but I recall some comments in the M9 thread mentioning struggle with finding a good tip and insertion depth and that kind of sealing/vacuum effect but seemed like people were able to find solutions. I don't think M9 has any vents, at least not obvious visible ones.

I see, some of my friend don't feel pressure problem at all too, Sad my beta ear lol.
Usually i use sony hybrid on most of IEM I try, seal and sound the best for me.
Also some non vented BA i try didn't have that bad of air pressure
For me the final solution is just look for an IEM that doesn't give this pressure if want to get upgrade

 

[thesheik137]

I would not have sold my M9 if it were not for the vacuum/pressure issue, it was a deal-breaker for me unfortunately. Never experienced it that bad with any other iem. The best solution is getting an iem with a venting module, such as 64audio's apex.

 

[toranku]

What do you think about PP8 for that request? the FR is similar on Crin's comparator. (I was wondering aloud about it in previous post but deleted since I haven't tried & wasn't the person being asked)

I guess the problem with removing the bass from the N3 it completely changes what that signature ends up sounding like (based on other IEMs I have heard like the EST though it rises later than 2khz than n3). For me the M9 almost sounds like it has more midbass since it doesn't have the slight V-shape of N3- but since it has fuller mids overall maybe would be less bothersome for someone that finds N3 midbass annoying IDK.

Dunu 3001Pro almost looks the part, FR-wise.

also @Skylaze have you tried using wide bore tips on the n3?

Haha yeah, while N3 might seem like a bass boosted PP8, the 8dB bass shelf completely changes everything. I dont recall trying out the 3001..think I only tried the 4001 in the same product lineup.

Hmm, I haven't had that problem with either IEM but I recall some comments in the M9 thread mentioning struggle with finding a good tip and insertion depth and that kind of sealing/vacuum effect but seemed like people were able to find solutions. I don't think M9 has any vents, at least not obvious visible ones.

(another idea for reducing bass on N3 a 'front vent' mod like- james444's fx850 mod for example)

I like pulling on my ears to "equalise" the pressure. If pressured its so uncomfortable for me. All about finding the sweet spot with having a seal but without a vacuum effect

 

[Skylaze]

I like pulling on my ears to "equalise" the pressure. If pressured its so uncomfortable for me. All about finding the sweet spot with having a seal but without a vacuum effect

Is what you mean by pulling your ear is making your earhole enlarge a bit so more air enter your ear, then close it with eartips?
Or what pro move is this XD?

 

[toranku]

Is what you mean by pulling your ear is making your earhole enlarge a bit so more air enter your ear, then close it with eartips?
Or what pro move is this XD?

Yeah, I pull only when the IEM is inserted and has the feeling of pressure. Pulling the ear breaks seal and allows air to move into the ear. Letting go of the pull, the seal is then created again.

 

[buonassi]

there's something unique to the sony M7/M9 design. i noticed this pressure buildup due to vaccum more than with any other ventless/sealed IEMs. The suction pulls the eardrum tight (negative pressure) and for this reason skews the FR to sound much less bassy. It FR skew also varies according to the amount of pressure, so each ear sounded slightly different and affected center image in a bad way.

Of course the pin prick mod solved those issues entirely and still allowed for a great seal. The puncture holes only allow pressure to equalize over a few seconds slowly. Transient bass hits with the same punch - IOW, you can't discern sonically that there are any punctures in the silicone.