[Ricky64]

I have the PP8. Interestingly, I purchased it at the suggestion of @Mimouille when I was inquiring about an iem for classical. My thoughts are that it fits very well but is quite big. It throws an amazing soundstage, and images extremely well. However, it favors imaging and transparency over weight and timbre. This works well for some genres, but not so much for others. With eq, it is pretty capable. I plan on hanging onto it, but I'm not satisfied with it.
I bought the Meze Raj Penta thinking it would be the solution. It isn't. It has a nice dynamic bass. The upper midrange is really brought forward , and is nicely done without harsh edges. However, it does this at the expense of soundstage, and I still have issues with timbre in the lower midrange. There, the penta is almost a carbon copy of the PP8. This is no bueno since I listen mainly to hard bop with piano, tenor sax, etc. Meze did a great job keeping the bass from leaking up into the midrange, however. I'll be interested in Toranku's impressions. It sounds great with rock and pop.
I'm now awaiting more info on FAudio's prototype Y (apparently not ready to show at CanJam Singapore), and the VE elysium. At the same time, a well done full range dynamic driver might be my best bet. I have an order in for the IER 1ZR as I have lots of Sony points.

 

[toranku]

I have the PP8. Interestingly, I purchased it at the suggestion of @Mimouille when I was inquiring about an iem for classical. My thoughts are that it fits very well but is quite big. It throws an amazing soundstage, and images extremely well. However, it favors imaging and transparency over weight and timbre. This works well for some genres, but not so much for others. With eq, it is pretty capable. I plan on hanging onto it, but I'm not satisfied with it.
I bought the Meze Raj Penta thinking it would be the solution. It isn't. It has a nice dynamic bass. The upper midrange is really brought forward , and is nicely done without harsh edges. However, it does this at the expense of soundstage, and I still have issues with timbre in the lower midrange. There, the penta is almost a carbon copy of the PP8. This is no bueno since I listen mainly to hard bop with piano, tenor sax, etc. Meze did a great job keeping the bass from leaking up into the midrange, however. I'll be interested in Toranku's impressions. It sounds great with rock and pop.
I'm now awaiting more info on FAudio's prototype Y (apparently not ready to show at CanJam Singapore), and the VE elysium. At the same time, a well done full range dynamic driver might be my best bet. I have an order in for the IER 1ZR as I have lots of Sony points.

I've this theory that keeping a relatively gentle boost from 2-4k (relative to 1k region) can help with soundstage. Most iems with an uppermidrange boost I have tried tends to have a smaller staging. The human brain seems to pick up this range easily. Of course stage isnt just FR but many other factors. Just something I've noticed...

Just for curiosity's sake, have you tried plugging the PP8 into a tube amp? Full range DD...the trend is that all of them lack extension at the highs. Does feel like the market for 1DD has been going round and round after ex800/ex1k. Just improve the extension response, dammit!

 

[MaxwellDot]

interesting feedback on the PP8.. it seems to be transparent and analytical but in a cold and "clinical" way. Rather opposite of what I lean towards (warm, slight tilt to the lows but not at the expense of receding the upper mids)

 

[Mimouille]

I have the PP8. Interestingly, I purchased it at the suggestion of @Mimouille when I was inquiring about an iem for classical. My thoughts are that it fits very well but is quite big. It throws an amazing soundstage, and images extremely well. However, it favors imaging and transparency over weight and timbre. This works well for some genres, but not so much for others. With eq, it is pretty capable. I plan on hanging onto it, but I'm not satisfied with it.
I bought the Meze Raj Penta thinking it would be the solution. It isn't. It has a nice dynamic bass. The upper midrange is really brought forward , and is nicely done without harsh edges. However, it does this at the expense of soundstage, and I still have issues with timbre in the lower midrange. There, the penta is almost a carbon copy of the PP8. This is no bueno since I listen mainly to hard bop with piano, tenor sax, etc. Meze did a great job keeping the bass from leaking up into the midrange, however. I'll be interested in Toranku's impressions. It sounds great with rock and pop.
I'm now awaiting more info on FAudio's prototype Y (apparently not ready to show at CanJam Singapore), and the VE elysium. At the same time, a well done full range dynamic driver might be my best bet. I have an order in for the IER 1ZR as I have lots of Sony points.

Oops sorry, didn't work for me but thought it would work for your needs.

 

[Ricky64]

I've this theory that keeping a relatively gentle boost from 2-4k (relative to 1k region) can help with soundstage. Most iems with an uppermidrange boost I have tried tends to have a smaller staging. The human brain seems to pick up this

Just for curiosity's sake, have you tried plugging the PP8 into a tube amp? Full range DD...the trend is that all of them lack extension at the highs. Does feel like the market for 1DD has been going round and round after ex800/ex1k. Just improve the extension response, dammit!

Oops sorry, didn't work for me but thought it would work for your needs.

It was a good suggestion ... As noted, still have it and enjoy it. Thank you!

 

[alpha421]

First Impressions: Future Sonics MG5HX

These finally came in. The mg5hx is quite an interesting CIEM since it's a self made 1DD seated in a proprietary bubble. Buying this is a huge risk - Future Sonics will not do any ownership transfers and reshelling them is impossible with any third party. So if you happen to have blind bought them and do not enjoy them, they turn into paper weight.

That aside, the MG5HX has a warm, elevated bass but isn't too bloated with an emphasis on subbass. Bass control has good decay with basslines being very easily heard. There's a feeling of oomph and authority when bass synths/lines/drums are being played. The midrange of MG5HX is where it gets funky. There's quite an obvious slope towards the upper midrange which can cause vocals to be lean sounding. However this helps separate the vocals from the instruments, kinda like how the Harman curve does it. I have an idea of how much +dB the slope has but I'll get someone to graph it. Due to how much spike it has in the uppermidrange, instruments around that region can be too forward and sometimes intense to listen to. Treble wise it's a little dark and lacks extension. Smooth sounding and non-fatiguing cymbals. Unimpressive highs overall since cymbals can be too undefined.

EX800ST has a thicker midrange compared to MG5HX and in general has way better balance. However in terms of bass quantity, the MG5 definitely has way more especially around the subbass. I prefer the way EX800ST does the midrange since MG5 can be intense. EX800ST also has a bigger, more open stage since essentially it has no isolation. However MG5 does layer and separate instruments better which I suspect in part due to the boosted uppermidrange tuning.

Will graph it soon (why are there no graphs of FS despite their long history?!)

Welcome to the FS MG5HX club. I find the timbre and voice the most natural sounding and of course impossible to fatigue. I don't experience any vocals to be lean. Live tracks has a real sense of staging. What source are you using? I find they like a little power, and with an output impedance of around 1-3 ohms. Anything less or close to zero, can add some thinness, IMO. If the source has a brighter sounding ESS DAC, that helps a lot in the treble regions.

 

[toranku]

Welcome to the FS MG5HX club. I find the timbre and voice the most natural sounding and of course impossible to fatigue. I don't experience any vocals to be lean. Live tracks has a real sense of staging. What source are you using? I find they like a little power, and with an output impedance of around 1-3 ohms. Anything less or close to zero, can add some thinness, IMO. If the source has a brighter sounding ESS DAC, that helps a lot in the treble regions.

Impedance huh, I'm using a dpx1 which has around 1ohm I think. Will need to AB directly with a higher ohm source, perhaps I'll try the iematch for convenience in testing. Thanks for your suggestion!

 

[alpha421]

Use to own that DAP long ago. Axed it because despite the bloated specs, it sounded too thin and I found the amplification stage not ideal with the FS MG5HX. Sound quality and amplification wise, the PONO trumped it, IMO, but I don't recommend it due to all the known cons of the now defunct DAP. You're absolutely right that the FS MG5HX isn't targeted for audiophiles, but I can listen to the FS MG5HX for hours/days on end. It does what it suppose to and designed to do, but comparing it to multiple BA and hybrids, it can sound lacking. If the T8ie MK2 was available in a custom form, I'd buy it in a heart beat. Hopefully your MG5HX doesn't become acrylic paper weights.

Have fun with your journey towards iem perfection. I gave up years ago.

 

[toranku]

First Impressions: Meze Rai Penta

The Meze Rai Penta has poor isolation despite sealing well. Cable connectors are quite nice actually, has that great transparency with good finish. Anyway, on to the sound...

The Penta doesn't quite follow the tonality of the harman curve due. Its bass is more of a perceived type of flat compared to a measurably flat bass like the EX800ST. The Penta has a tad bigger midbass than the EX800ST but the subbass isn't increased much. I usually look for even more subbass in IEMs since I want to hear more bass guitars or deep bass synths in the mix. Penta has a lift in the harmonic range of the vocals (and electric guitars). As such the vocal range is well separated from the rest of the track especially with female vocalists. I actually think it has a tad too much 1.5kHz to 3kHz for me. Male vocalists (and lower mids) on the other hand, are dry sounding with their harmonics being emphasised resulting in a slightly shrill sound. It sounds too honky and perhaps nasal.

I do like the lower treble - it's very free of sibilance and sounds rather neutral to me, if not a slight dip for some. Extension on the highs are disappointing which I think is what makes the attack being blunt overall. Cymbals can use more shine and they sound veiled/hazy. Not much texture on cymbals to go around too. Due to the tuning on the treble section the attack is not sharp - imaging does not have that feeling of preciseness and accuracy. Stage width is definitely wider than average but depth and height is very much normal.

Overall, the signature is dry and unexciting. Vocals sound honky and perhaps a touch nasal. Technicalities are nothing to boast about. There are better hybrids in the market.

 

[Ricky64]

First Impressions: Meze Rai Penta

The Meze Rai Penta has poor isolation despite sealing well. Cable connectors are quite nice actually, has that great transparency with good finish. Anyway, on to the sound...

The Penta doesn't quite follow the tonality of the harman curve due. Its bass is more of a perceived type of flat compared to a measurably flat bass like the EX800ST. The Penta has a tad bigger midbass than the EX800ST but the subbass isn't increased much. I usually look for even more subbass in IEMs since I want to hear more bass guitars or deep bass synths in the mix. Penta has a lift in the harmonic range of the vocals (and electric guitars). As such the vocal range is well separated from the rest of the track especially with female vocalists. I actually think it has a tad too much 1.5kHz to 3kHz for me. Male vocalists (and lower mids) on the other hand, are dry sounding with their harmonics being emphasised resulting in a slightly shrill sound. It sounds too honky and perhaps nasal.

I do like the lower treble - it's very free of sibilance and sounds rather neutral to me, if not a slight dip for some. Extension on the highs are disappointing which I think is what makes the attack being blunt overall. Cymbals can use more shine and they sound veiled/hazy. Not much texture on cymbals to go around too. Due to the tuning on the treble section the attack is not sharp - imaging does not have that feeling of preciseness and accuracy. Stage width is definitely wider than average but depth and height is very much normal.

Overall, the signature is dry and unexciting. Vocals sound honky and perhaps a touch nasal. Technicalities are nothing to boast about. There are better hybrids in the market.

Completely in line with my impressions, but I didn’t get the above average soundstage, likely because I was coming from the PP8. I’ve wondered if, based on the tuning, they were going after professional vocalists as a monitor, as it seems the main emphasis is bringing vocals forward.

 

[TooPoorForHiFi]

I would like to request some impression / thoughts on Final Audio's new line of products. I'm not sure if they'll be at CamJam Singapore.

New Final Audio Product:

• Final Audio B2 ~ 250-400USD (1BA)
• Final Audio B3 ~ 500USD (2BA)
• Final Audio B1 ~ 600USD (1BA + 1DD)
• Final Audio A8000, A7000

Of course whenever you get a chance. very much appreciated.

 

[toranku]

Completely in line with my impressions, but I didn’t get the above average soundstage, likely because I was coming from the PP8. I’ve wondered if, based on the tuning, they were going after professional vocalists as a monitor, as it seems the main emphasis is bringing vocals forward.

Well, I mainly come from CIEMs and CIEMs tend to have a very in-your-head type of staging. Perhaps I should use a benchmark for soundstage. In any case, soundstage perception can be affected by even things like volume so it's very inconsistent. Thinking of omitting the mention of soundstage unless it's impressive enough to make me notice. Imaging/attack and instrumental separation would be the more important factors.

The Penta has quite poor isolation...wouldn't bring this on stage esp since bass levels would plummet

I would like to request some impression / thoughts on Final Audio's new line of products. I'm not sure if they'll be at CamJam Singapore.

New Final Audio Product:

• Final Audio B2 ~ 250-400USD (1BA)
• Final Audio B3 ~ 500USD (2BA)
• Final Audio B1 ~ 600USD (1BA + 1DD)
• Final Audio A8000, A7000

Of course whenever you get a chance. very much appreciated.

Yup, I've got my eye on those. Hopefully the Final booth wont be crowded. Because it usually is at least in Japan.

 

[toranku]

Revisited: JVC/Victor FW10000

I popped by the store that has the Rai Penta and thought "hey, might as well". I've tried 4 different FW10Ks and all of them have a consistent signature.

The FW10K has a harsh and aggressive uppermidrange with potentially harsh lower treble as well. Lower mids are thin. Scratch that, the overall tone is thin and shrill. Bass levels are lesser than EX800ST with even less of a bodied punch, opting for a tight and fast bass response. Treble is pretty well extended with great texture, shimmer and perhaps a bit too much shine. Soundstage is wide but the notes don't hold much real weight. Due to it's tuning the attack is pretty darn sharp but it listens like a one-trick. Predictable, oddly tuned signature with emphasis on the upper harmonics whilst retaining a little bit of warmth in the mix. Sounds like ass on most of my music because it lacks the weight and body. Plucked strings have a great feeling of precision and tact and that is the only thing it has going for it. Thought some country music would be nice. Until the vocals came into the mix. No thank you.

The FW10K is perhaps the only 1DD out there with decent treble extension. Let down by a signature only few can appreciate. Honestly, sounds like a good iem for those with hearing damage.

 

[TooPoorForHiFi]

Thanks Again.

 

[Ricky64]

Re the Final Booth....
Try to listen to the over-ear D8000 if you have a chance. I think you will like the tuning