TOPPING D90SE Updates to D90 III Discrete

[Chardonnay]

Just received my D90 III Discrete today after a lengthy struggle with the delivery people. When I get time in the next few days I will load the latest firmware and power it up on my office desk and check the operation with different music formats to see if I experience any of the issues reported lately before I throw it into the main system. It will be replacing a Topping E70 Velvet.

 

[theeclone]

Last night, just around the 1 week point of break-in, the sound started getting bigger and more 3 dimensional. Let it continue to play overnight and it sounded even better this morning.

Still preferring the i2s. USB sometimes gets a little harsh to my ears.

If it's true that it needs another week to fully break in then I'm in for a treat!

 

[Tomori]

Have you had any luck Troubleshooting this further? I am experiencing the same issue when paired with the Topping A90 Discrete regardless of Sample Rate and DAC/PRE Mode. Also tried multiple XLR Cables and Headphones as well as the Topping HS02 Isolator, which someone else suggested, but to no avail.

I tried Contacting Topping Support but haven't heard back as of yet.

Heard back from Topping Support - they said they were able to reproduce this issue but mentioned a fix might take some time

 

[droptables]

I noticed a significant sound quality issue with really bad distortion from the RCA's when I have both the XLR and RCA active. If I switch it to exclusively use RCA's then it goes away. Simple enough to do but, still is a bummer. I use USB to connect to my PC.

 

[crion]

So, I have now tested all output frequencies in native Windows 11 with native usbaudio2.sys straight from motherboard via USB-cable to D90 iii Discrete.

Half of the output frequencies get mismatched frequency with the windows 11 output settings and the D90 iii Discrete OLED.

This results in either distorted audio or the audio playing at the wrong pitch (mismatched frequency really).


D90 iii Discrete, FW 0.39
Microsoft c:\windows\system32\DRIVERS\usbaudio2.sys 10.0.26100.1150 (WinBuild.160101.0800)


Simple Test using windows 11 sound output properties changing between sample rates and pressing the 'Test' button.

Passed:
24bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz
24bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz
24bit, 176400 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz
24bit, 352800 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz

32bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz
32bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz
32bit, 176400 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz
32bit, 352800 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz

Failed:
24bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (wrong pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz - mismatch
24bit, 88200 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz - mismatch
24bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz - mismatch
24bit, 384000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz - mismatch

32bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (wrong pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz - mismatch
32bit, 88200 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz - mismatch
32bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz - mismatch
32bit, 384000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz - mismatch

 

[VintageAudio]

I noticed a significant sound quality issue with really bad distortion from the RCA's when I have both the XLR and RCA active. If I switch it to exclusively use RCA's then it goes away. Simple enough to do but, still is a bummer. I use USB to connect to my PC.

Oh no, I specifically looked in the manual to confirm whether both outputs could be used simultaneously with no bad effects. Many other DACS do not recommend this which is a bummer, but I thought the D90 III would support it.

I wonder if many of the issues reported are limited to windows or if they apply for Mac too.

 

[crion]

Oh no, I specifically looked in the manual to confirm whether both outputs could be used simultaneously with no bad effects. Many other DACS do not recommend this which is a bummer, but I thought the D90 III would support it.

I wonder if many of the issues reported are limited to windows or if they apply for Mac too.

Regarding RCA output level, that is pure D90 iii Discrete FW issue. Has nothing to do with which host OS it is. With FW 0.39 it is way off spec (too HOT for many preamps) even in RCA-only mode. I hope that someone can measure this.

 

[droptables]

Oh no, I specifically looked in the manual to confirm whether both outputs could be used simultaneously with no bad effects. Many other DACS do not recommend this which is a bummer, but I thought the D90 III would support it.

I wonder if many of the issues reported are limited to windows or if they apply for Mac too.

I'm using mine on mac and pc, with same issue on both.

 

[felix37]

I use both rca and xlr simultanious outs ,with my headphone amp can switch them beside xlr being more high level than rca I can not recognize a difference in sound quality not DR or sound stage size ,may be my ears are no so sensitive like others ,I am in love with this dac .comming from ADI adi fs is far better in every depatment , i did not expected this sensational SQ ,so far my machine runs about 25 continous hours , from the start it gave me immersive 3d sound ,will continue to burnin at least one week and see what how the sound improves

 

[VintageAudio]

Prior to pulling the trigger on the D90 III Discrete, I was planning on getting the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Anyone happen to have the chance to listen and compare the two that could share their thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[Astral Abyss]

Prior to pulling the trigger on the D90 III Discrete, I was planning on getting the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Anyone happen to have the chance to listen and compare the two that could share their thoughts?

Thanks!

D90D over Bifrost 2/64. No contest. Cleaner, more resolution, bigger soundstage, more options, and preamp capabilities. Remote is more useful too. If you can get it for the $850 sale price it's a steal.

 

[theeclone]

Prior to pulling the trigger on the D90 III Discrete, I was planning on getting the Schiit Bifrost 2/64. Anyone happen to have the chance to listen and compare the two that could share their thoughts?

Thanks!

I think it depends in part on your use case, but for me personally I'm happier with the D90 iii Discrete than I was with the Bifrost 2/64 so far, with the caveat that I'm still burning in the Topping. Can't imagine it's suddenly going to get worse-sounding, though the firmware issues on the Topping are a bit concerning.

Every so often weird issues with USB crop up for me on the Topping but a power cycle always fixes them, and I prefer i2s anyway.

If I were stuck with just USB and didn't use DSD source material I might reconsider the Bifrost 2/64 if I were staying in this price range. Schiit's Unison is easily the best sounding USB implementation I've heard, and so far the Topping's USB is a bit meh in comparison.

But with a good i2s source and DSD the Topping sounds way better than it has any right to at this price.

 

[SMen]

So, I have now tested all output frequencies in native Windows 11 with native usbaudio2.sys straight from motherboard via USB-cable to D90 iii Discrete.

Half of the output frequencies get mismatched frequency with the windows 11 output settings and the D90 iii Discrete OLED.

This results in either distorted audio or the audio playing at the wrong pitch (mismatched frequency really).


D90 iii Discrete, FW 0.39
Microsoft c:\windows\system32\DRIVERS\usbaudio2.sys 10.0.26100.1150 (WinBuild.160101.0800)


Simple Test using windows 11 sound output properties changing between sample rates and pressing the 'Test' button.

Passed:
24bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz
24bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz
24bit, 176400 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz
24bit, 352800 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz

32bit, 48000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz
32bit, 96000 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz
32bit, 176400 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz
32bit, 352800 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (sounds correct pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz

Failed:
24bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (wrong pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz - mismatch
24bit, 88200 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz - mismatch
24bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz - mismatch
24bit, 384000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz - mismatch

32bit, 44100 Hz (Studio Quality) - audio clear (wrong pitch), D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 48kHz - mismatch
32bit, 88200 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 96kHz - mismatch
32bit, 192000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 176.4kHz - mismatch
32bit, 384000 Hz (Studio Quality) - Distorted audio, D90 iii Discrete OLED reports 352.8kHz - mismatch

So is this a usb input issue? So any 44100 Hz signal and it's multiples is either 'wrong pitch' or distorts? Surely everyone here is not purely using dsd or 48/96 etc.?
The optical input also goes to 192000 - does this distort?
Maybe I am reading too much into your findings, but they seem pretty major.

 

[tommo21]

I've done both RCA and XLR out for the whole burn in periode so far(150h), and no problems doing that. I've had other dacs that have had some glitches and noise while doing this but they all have functioned perfect after a power-cycle.

In my long road down the hifi and head-fi hole I've had my fair share of noise and grounding problems especially with XLR and RCA, and most of the times it has turned out that the "bad" cables have been the culprit. what I mean with that is connection-trouble in connectors or grounding issues. In head-fi also internal cable resistance have been an eye-opener on how this affects sound and performance of the amp.

But it looks like the firmware needs some fixing in the DSD management at least, but I for the moment don't use the dac this way.

My unit is updated to 0.39 Firmware.

 

[crion]

So, I have now tested all output frequencies in native Windows 11 with native usbaudio2.sys straight from motherboard via USB-cable to D90 iii Discrete.

So is this a usb input issue? So any 44100 Hz signal and it's multiples is either 'wrong pitch' or distorts? Surely everyone here is not purely using dsd or 48/96 etc.?
The optical input also goes to 192000 - does this distort?
Maybe I am reading too much into your findings, but they seem pretty major.

I even tried installing the newest topping USB drivers (5.72.0) instead of native windows 11 usb2 driver and from initial testing it seems that all frequencies that was listed as 'mismatched' with my previous post with what the OLED screen is saying are still mismatched with the latest topping USB driver, and the mistmatched frequencies are all with the "wrong pitch" the distorsion is gone though.

So please, if anyone can just test 44.1kHz output from usb windows 11 computer (Verify with 'Current Sample Rate' in Topping USB Audio Device Control Panel), does D90 iii Discrete OLED show 48kHz or 44.1kHz for you then?

I am using D90 iii Discrete FW 0.39