TOPPING D90SE Updates to D90 III Discrete

[theeclone]

Got the DAC today. Probably still too early for impressions though I will say it's sounding a bit shouty after a couple of hours burn in.

I'm a bit baffled by Topping/Apos's responses that were posted earlier in this thread regarding DSD bypass. Still not 100% clear what it does but it seems the only thing that would make sense is if it were leaving DSD untouched and decoding as-is. So far, it does sound a bit more DSD-ish with bypass on to me.

However, as you can see below, it's reporting PCM when playing DSD64 content. The rpi streamer's display confirms DSD64 is being sent. However, if I play DSD128 content, then it gets reported as such on the DAC. Strange.

If I didn't know any better I would say this thing runs at a minimum of DSD128 internally, and that DSD64 is converted to an intermediary PCM format before being upsampled to higher rate DSD.

This is using i2s with DoP. No issues with the 3 other DSD-capable DACs I've used with this streamer. Haven't tried USB yet bc the i2s from the rpi5 generally sounds so great.

 

[rickmcinnis]

Took mine just over two weeks to become what it is now.

Be patient - keep music playing constantly.

One day you will be sitting there listening and you will wonder what happened.

 

[Lexington99]

Took mine just over two weeks to become what it is now.

Be patient - keep music playing constantly.

One day you will be sitting there listening and you will wonder what happened.

Will definitely keep this in mind. I'm getting my unit today. Impressions to follow in a few days perhaps.

 

[rickmcinnis]

I suspect you will not be that impressed. Far from disappointed but ... in a couple of weeks you will be very pleased.

 

[theeclone]

Took mine just over two weeks to become what it is now.

Be patient - keep music playing constantly.

One day you will be sitting there listening and you will wonder what happened.

Yep, been running music through it constantly and will continue to do so. I will say there were moments in my initial listening where I was noticing details I'd never noticed before in music I'd listened to countless times before.

My hope is that the sound becomes a bit more relaxed without sacrificing that detail. I look forward to hearing where it goes from here!

 

[rickmcinnis]

It will become more relaxed and in an indefinable way - more beautiful. I have never experienced such a change with any component before.

I am so impressed with the thing I have to find out if a superior power supply will make a difference. Of course, I hope it will but you never know until you try.

 

[Lexington99]

Ok so I have it.

Currently turned off all BT & PEQ settings.
I have 5V mode ON, DAC Mode ON, with DSD Bypass ON. RCA to Coax.
Are these the settings to use if I want the DSD 1bit effect maximized?

Didn't really understand if I should have DSD on or off.

I'm playing PCM material.

 

[theeclone]

Ok so I have it.

Currently turned off all BT & PEQ settings.
I have 5V mode ON, DAC Mode ON, with DSD Bypass ON. RCA to Coax.
Are these the settings to use if I want the DSD 1bit effect maximized?

Didn't really understand if I should have DSD on or off.

I'm playing PCM material.

I personally like the way DSD sounds better with bypass ON.

Also, at least at least during the break in period, I'm liking 4V better than 5V. May be system dependent, but generally with those hotter output values I tend to think they're there mostly to improve measurements, which, not to open a can of worms, but I don't always think those measurements translate to something more enjoyable in and of themselves.

 

[theeclone]

Update: Tried with USB and native DSD and dsd64 was properly registered. Only problem was it sounded like somebody was playing a frying pan along with the music. Managed to update the firmware despite a botched 1st attempt due to bad documentation and weird upgrade app UI, and the issue went away.

Also despite what the firmware changelog says, the static was happening not just on dsd64 but also dsd128. However this was not happening with i2s and DoP on the older firmware (.38). Haven't retried with i2s since the upgrade.

 

[Edward Ng]

Update: Tried with USB and native DSD and dsd64 was properly registered. Only problem was it sounded like somebody was playing a frying pan along with the music. Managed to update the firmware despite a botched 1st attempt due to bad documentation and weird upgrade app UI, and the issue went away.

Also despite what the firmware changelog says, the static was happening not just on dsd64 but also dsd128. However this was not happening with i2s and DoP on the older firmware (.38). Haven't retried with i2s since the upgrade.

Yeah I told them that it was with all DSD sample rates, not just 64, but hey—what do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

 

[theeclone]

Yeah I told them that it was with all DSD sample rates, not just 64, but hey—what do I know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

-Ed

Good thing this DAC is such a great value! Makes it easier to put up with the poor communication/documentation from Topping.

Here's my interpretation of their response to you about DSD bypass. I think the language barrier was coming into play:

"If you're just playing PCM files, there's no need for DSD Bypass. It's useful for people who upsample everything to high rate DSD in their player software. For DSD64, we don't recommend it as playback won't be ideal. At least DSD128 is recommended for DSD Bypass."

But yeah so far DSD64 sounds fine to me in bypass mode, though admittedly most listening was done with i2s which may have been resampling it anyway, due to what I think is/was a firmware bug. I may reach out to them if it keeps having the weird behavior with DSD64 on i2s.

 

[theeclone]

Now here's a recording just made for the D90 III Discrete in DSD bypass mode. Recorded in high rate DSD and never converted to PCM during mixing & mastering. Even on day 2 of burn-in it's got some greatness going on.

Comparing high rate DSD like this, to DSD64 in bypass mode via USB, I think I'm hearing why Topping may have been trying to discourage bypass mode for DSD64. They should've just called it something like NOS DSD mode. It does have that NOS quality to it with DSD64, where you get a sense that the analog lowpass filter isn't optimized for it, yet it still has that organic/analog feel to it. DSD64 on this DAC in bypass mode reminds me a bit of the Bifrost 2/64 in NOS mode.

This recording at DSD256 sounds much more "correct".

 

[SMen]

I've been reading with interest peoples' comments about the hi-res replay and DSD etc. but any comments about how it deals with bog standard 16bit 44 ... or 'hi res' streaming, or even dare I say it bluetooth?
I'm very interested in this, but it would be good to know it handles the standard fare.
And if there is just a setting we should leave it at to just handle whatever we want to play through it (DSD or redbook) at any point in time. I recognize a few here from ASR ... hello!

 

[theeclone]

I've been reading with interest peoples' comments about the hi-res replay and DSD etc. but any comments about how it deals with bog standard 16bit 44 ... or 'hi res' streaming, or even dare I say it bluetooth?
I'm very interested in this, but it would be good to know it handles the standard fare.
And if there is just a setting we should leave it at to just handle whatever we want to play through it (DSD or redbook) at any point in time. I recognize a few here from ASR ... hello!

I will say I think the built-in resampling on this thing is quite good. Better perhaps in some ways than on the PS Audio Directstream DAC mk1, which also resamples everything to 1 bit high sample rate.

Was just listening to some CD quality files, and while tonally I don't think this DAC is quite as good as some other pricier ones (at least not yet; still burning in), I thought it handled them quite well.

Hi res PCM sounded even better. Even DSD64 with bypass off sounds really good (resampled internally).

So if you want a "set it and forget it" approach, yeah, I would just turn DSD bypass off. So I will defer to what Topping support suggested to another forum poster on the matter. However, if you are resampling everything to high rate DSD externally than I would keep DSD bypass on.

 

[SMen]

I will say I think the built-in resampling on this thing is quite good. Better perhaps in some ways than on the PS Audio Directstream DAC mk1, which also resamples everything to 1 bit high sample rate.

Was just listening to some CD quality files, and while tonally I don't think this DAC is quite as good as some other pricier ones (at least not yet; still burning in), I thought it handled them quite well.

Hi res PCM sounded even better. Even DSD64 with bypass off sounds really good (resampled internally).

So if you want a "set it and forget it" approach, yeah, I would just turn DSD bypass off. So I will defer to what Topping support suggested to another forum poster on the matter. However, if you are resampling everything to high rate DSD externally than I would keep DSD bypass on.

Thank you. No I don't have an external re-sampler - digital input would be related to source, whether DSD, Amazon Music, Red book or occasionally bluetooth for podcasts or such. This would be the most I have ever spent on a DAC - v-tempted.