TOPPING D90SE Updates to D90 III Discrete

[theeclone]

Ok, so after a long back and forth with support about my DSD i2s issue, they told me they had "reproduced [my] situation" and were forwarding it to R&D.

R&D basically got back to me and were like, "We discovered the issue is not the D90. Please make sure the DSD Flag is set properly on the D90", which I had already confirmed, and which I reiterated. Then they asked if the behavior was the same when setting it to the other (incorrect) pin, which I confirmed it was.

The below was their reply. Cool support bro. I find it hard to believe everything is "fine" with this DAC based on all the comments here to the contrary. If Topping wants to make big boy DACs I think they'll need to provide better support and not roll out such minimally viable products.

 

[theeclone]

Ok, well I just hit the 2 week mark pretty much exactly, and after constantly playing music through the D90 I have to admit it's sounding really good. Like I'm considering selling at least one of my Holo DACs good.

Sorry to be salty about Topping tech support, but I have this thing where I just believe the world would be such a better place if everyone would just do their job. And hey, I get that it may be out of the hands of R&D, but then that begs the question of whether QC or management have really done their jobs. And when after a 2 email exchange with R&D I'm told basically, "yeah just return it", it's a little disconcerting.

But I digress. The sound of this DAC has gotten bigger, sweeter and smoother over time without sacrificing detail. I find my ears are no longer fatigued as quickly when listening at louder levels as they were just after unboxing.

I2S still sounds better to me than USB, and I still seem to prefer DSD bypass mode on I2S. Due to the issue I contacted Topping about, I can't be 100% certain it's truly bypassed when playing DSD over I2S, but my ears like it better this way so I'm sticking with it.

I still need to do a final shootout between the D90 and either the Holo Spring 3 I just picked up, or the Spring 2 KTE I already own, to get some perspective and to decide if the D90 will stay in the main listening room, or perhaps go into the recording studio for mixing & mastering purposes. When I last did a shootout between the D90 and the Holo Spring 1 KTE, I found the Spring had more slam, better dynamics overall, and a deeper soundstage. It also came off warmer despite some occasional muddiness. But you could still hear textures quite well behind the mud. This was before the D90 was fully broken in, though.

And now I see that Topping released an r2r DAC using technology developed with Holo. Arggghhh, I kind of want to try that one out too now

 

[fidgeraldo]

Arggghhh, I kind of want to try that one out too now

Please do!

Cheers!

 

[Edward Ng]

Ok, well I just hit the 2 week mark pretty much exactly, and after constantly playing music through the D90 I have to admit it's sounding really good. Like I'm considering selling at least one of my Holo DACs good.

Sorry to be salty about Topping tech support, but I have this thing where I just believe the world would be such a better place if everyone would just do their job. And hey, I get that it may be out of the hands of R&D, but then that begs the question of whether QC or management have really done their jobs. And when after a 2 email exchange with R&D I'm told basically, "yeah just return it", it's a little disconcerting.

But I digress. The sound of this DAC has gotten bigger, sweeter and smoother over time without sacrificing detail. I find my ears are no longer fatigued as quickly when listening at louder levels as they were just after unboxing.

I2S still sounds better to me than USB, and I still seem to prefer DSD bypass mode on I2S. Due to the issue I contacted Topping about, I can't be 100% certain it's truly bypassed when playing DSD over I2S, but my ears like it better this way so I'm sticking with it.

I still need to do a final shootout between the D90 and either the Holo Spring 3 I just picked up, or the Spring 2 KTE I already own, to get some perspective and to decide if the D90 will stay in the main listening room, or perhaps go into the recording studio for mixing & mastering purposes. When I last did a shootout between the D90 and the Holo Spring 1 KTE, I found the Spring had more slam, better dynamics overall, and a deeper soundstage. It also came off warmer despite some occasional muddiness. But you could still hear textures quite well behind the mud. This was before the D90 was fully broken in, though.

And now I see that Topping released an r2r DAC using technology developed with Holo. Arggghhh, I kind of want to try that one out too now

I’ll make it even worse for you: I returned my D90 III Discrete and replaced it with a Geshelli JNOG3 with SparkoS dual SS2590 op-amps, and I couldn’t possibly be more glad that I did it. The JNOG3 with the SS2590 op-amps is the most holographic DAC I’ve ever owned (which also includes Denafrips Ares II and Musician Draco), with the most stunning dynamic resolution (soft sounds are softer yet, hard-hitting sounds like kick drums hit extra-hard), and every single instrument, vocalist, or sound element has a distinct presence to it. The level of detail retrieval and texture is shocking—I can sense the vibration of the piano strings on Dave Brubeck Take Five.

I didn’t even know it was possible to get such amazing sound out of a sigma-delta DAC, yet here we are. It utterly destroys E70 Velvet and it’s based on the same chipset. The huge lesson learned here is that implementation matters more than the chipset itself!

-Ed

 

[theeclone]

(soft sounds are softer yet, hard-hitting sounds like kick drums hit extra-hard), and every single instrument, vocalist, or sound element has a distinct presence to it. The level of detail retrieval and texture is shocking—I can sense the vibration of the piano strings on Dave Brubeck Take Five.

Take 5 is one of my go-to's when evaluating a system. When that drum solo gets going, if that kick drum doesn't hit your body in a particular way, where you almost say, "wow", then something is off. I do get that now with the D90 III D after fully burning it it. But I'm using what I think is a really good raspberry pi I2S HAT paired with a FIFO buffer/reclocker. Both the raspberry pi 5 (which I think sounds better than the 4 for everything 4x CD rate and down), and the hats have their own highly filtered linear power supplies.

The quality of the source and interface are something I think a lot of people sleep on with digital, and with the right I2S source and DSD bypass, the D90 III D really shines. Might also have something to do with the fact that I'm using it with a crazy, thicker-than-garden-hose PS Audio power cable

But I just hooked up the Holo Spring 3 Level 1 and am listening to it from a cold start with USB and the PLL engaged, and I'm already seeing the things it does better than the Topping. It's still not quite as sweet or detailed yet, but we'll see what burn-in does for it.

Besides the implementation of the chipset, one thing I've consistently found is that DACs with big, overbuilt power supplies tend to do certain things well, like spaciousness and bass heft. I've owned both the Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and the Yggdrasil Less is More, which both use the same chips and same filter, but the Yggy LIM has a much more advanced power supply. Will be curious to see what kind of power supply the D900 has.

 

[Edward Ng]

Take 5 is one of my go-to's when evaluating a system. When that drum solo gets going, if that kick drum doesn't hit your body in a particular way, where you almost say, "wow", then something is off. I do get that now with the D90 III D after fully burning it it. But I'm using what I think is a really good raspberry pi I2S HAT paired with a FIFO buffer/reclocker. Both the raspberry pi 5 (which I think sounds better than the 4 for everything 4x CD rate and down), and the hats have their own highly filtered linear power supplies.

The quality of the source and interface are something I think a lot of people sleep on with digital, and with the right I2S source and DSD bypass, the D90 III D really shines. Might also have something to do with the fact that I'm using it with a crazy, thicker-than-garden-hose PS Audio power cable

But I just hooked up the Holo Spring 3 Level 1 and am listening to it from a cold start with USB and the PLL engaged, and I'm already seeing the things it does better than the Topping. It's still not quite as sweet or detailed yet, but we'll see what burn-in does for it.

Besides the implementation of the chipset, one thing I've consistently found is that DACs with big, overbuilt power supplies tend to do certain things well, like spaciousness and bass heft. I've owned both the Schiit Bifrost 2/64 and the Yggdrasil Less is More, which both use the same chips and same filter, but the Yggy LIM has a much more advanced power supply. Will be curious to see what kind of power supply the D900 has.

Indeed; I am waiting for my Teddy Pardo Mini SE to come in for my Geshelli. Will be interesting to see if I can hear the difference between the stock power brick and the Teddy Pardo.

-Ed

 

[VintageAudio]

I’ll make it even worse for you: I returned my D90 III Discrete and replaced it with a Geshelli JNOG3 with SparkoS dual SS2590 op-amps, and I couldn’t possibly be more glad that I did it. The JNOG3 with the SS2590 op-amps is the most holographic DAC I’ve ever owned (which also includes Denafrips Ares II and Musician Draco), with the most stunning dynamic resolution (soft sounds are softer yet, hard-hitting sounds like kick drums hit extra-hard), and every single instrument, vocalist, or sound element has a distinct presence to it. The level of detail retrieval and texture is shocking—I can sense the vibration of the piano strings on Dave Brubeck Take Five.

I didn’t even know it was possible to get such amazing sound out of a sigma-delta DAC, yet here we are. It utterly destroys E70 Velvet and it’s based on the same chipset. The huge lesson learned here is that implementation matters more than the chipset itself!

-Ed

I've tried JNOG2 socketed with SS2590s, but not the JNOG 3. Also owned the Ares II (and later the Ares 12th) and Musician Pegasus. Ares II made me sell my RME ADI-2 FS because of the massive sound stage and imaging and pleasing organic sound. Pegasus and Ares 12 did a one-up on Ares II because it kept same soundstage but was way more resolving (vs fuzziness of ares II).

My DAC journey kept creeping up from RME ADI 2 > Ares II > Pegasus > Ares 12 > Chord Qutest > Harmony Laiv > Audial S5b, also tried Aune S9c, Geshelli Jnog 2 socketed with SS2590s.

Now downgraded to Chord Mojo 2, Khadas Tone 2 Pro and awaiting the Topping D90 3D.... Curious to see where it falls in spectrum of all the dacs I've tried....

 

[Edward Ng]

I've tried JNOG2 socketed with SS2590s, but not the JNOG 3. Also owned the Ares II (and later the Ares 12th) and Musician Pegasus. Ares II made me sell my RME ADI-2 FS because of the massive sound stage and imaging and pleasing organic sound. Pegasus and Ares 12 did a one-up on Ares II because it kept same soundstage but was way more resolving (vs fuzziness of ares II).

My DAC journey kept creeping up from RME ADI 2 > Ares II > Pegasus > Ares 12 > Chord Qutest > Harmony Laiv > Audial S5b, also tried Aune S9c, Geshelli Jnog 2 socketed with SS2590s.

Now downgraded to Chord Mojo 2, Khadas Tone 2 Pro and awaiting the Topping D90 3D.... Curious to see where it falls in spectrum of all the dacs I've tried....

Yup, we agree on that fuzziness with Ares II.

Better resolution on the D90 III Discrete. More punch, too.

-Ed

 

[theeclone]

Indeed; I am waiting for my Teddy Pardo Mini SE to come in for my Geshelli. Will be interesting to see if I can hear the difference between the stock power brick and the Teddy Pardo.

-Ed

As I understand it, where things really get good is when you have dedicated supplies for the different parts of the DAC, e.g. the D/A chip, the analog section, etc.

But yeah, just getting switching power supplies out of the equation altogether is a good idea IMHO.

 

[VintageAudio]

As I understand it, where things really get good is when you have dedicated supplies for the different parts of the DAC, e.g. the D/A chip, the analog section, etc.

But yeah, just getting switching power supplies out of the equation altogether is a good idea IMHO.

Yep, the Audial S5B was a no-compromise insane implementation of a TDA1541a multi-bit dac. 10 separate supplies internally! A real beast. Best sounding DAC I've owned/tried.

 

[theeclone]

Yep, the Audial S5B was a no-compromise insane implementation of a TDA1541a multi-bit dac. 10 separate supplies internally! A real beast. Best sounding DAC I've owned/tried.

Price isn't too insane either, considering the features. Always wanted to hear those chips. Growing up we had a multibit Sony CD player. Had a cool sound and probably used something similar internally.

I bet some of those older MFSL recordings sound great on that DAC. Since they used multibit ADCs, it would be multibit the whole way through with no added digital filtering.

 

[SMen]

And now I see that Topping released an r2r DAC using technology developed with Holo. Arggghhh, I kind of want to try that one out too now

TOPPING Centaurus R2R Digital to Analog Convertor (DAC) - I nearly pulled the trigger on impulse on this from shenzhenaudio, and then I realized I'd have 20% added to bring it in to France, and then I started reading some of where this thread is now heading ...
so holding off a while to... mind you I do like its fake vu meter (mind you might be accurate and not fake), and frequency response displays

 

[felix37]

I am an owner of a single dac (d3d) and can not compare to another one ( better or worse dac) what I have , listening to the 3d3 make me happy , for me is good enough , I am enjoying the pure music ,
Every time will be a better product , running all the time to get the better dac , I think is a waste of time( for me) instead stopping and listening and enjoying music , just music
I had taylored the eq (topping tune ) to my taste and liking it very much .
I appreciate thosse people here that work hard founding differences between the machines.
If i was young may be will do the same but at my age , my time is precious and I will not spend it just comparing dacs ,I found that this little dac ,is a big music companion for me .
I am sure thatare out there many " better" dacs ,but I do not need them , this one is good enougth for me ,also the customer service is ok (mailed them a couple of times and received answers) ,no complain .
Like every person has a face , you can like it or not ' is just personal , every dac has his own "music face " and you may like it or not ,is just a personal taste
Hope every one really enjoy the music

 

[Edward Ng]

TOPPING Centaurus R2R Digital to Analog Convertor (DAC) - I nearly pulled the trigger on impulse on this from shenzhenaudio, and then I realized I'd have 20% added to bring it in to France, and then I started reading some of where this thread is now heading ...
so holding off a while to... mind you I do like its fake vu meter (mind you might be accurate and not fake), and frequency response displays

The DAC module is from Holo Cyan! Rest of the unit is Topping.

-Ed

 

[SMen]

The DAC module is from Holo Cyan! Rest of the unit is Topping.

-Ed

Yes, it's interesting isn't it! Once I adjust for tax it is not so far below the Cyan in price. I noticed also that the Holo R2R has sections for the main types: DSD (Direct Stream Digital) and PCM. Might be the one for me to punt on rather than the Discrete. The Geshelli also requires import duties etc. for me.