[number1sixerfan]

Agree, anyone have the Susvara dedicated amp from HIFIman?

Personally, I wouldn't pay 10, 15k or whatever the premium is for it. Amps sold by headphone manufacturers, and especially when sold coupled to a specific headphone almost always come at a high premium cost compared to performance. But even before spending top dollar on any absolute TOTL amp for them, I would probably grab one of the speaker amps recommended in the Susvara thread at a decent cost to first determine if you still feel like a pivot from planars is necessary. Or a used CFA3, or any of the other many decently priced amps in either the TC or Sus threads. You can always jump up to one of the premium priced amps at any point if that's what you truly desire.

Then, if you still have the itch to explore stats, you can pivot and still have ample funds to invest significantly if you like, which is really needed for stats.

 

[TDHEAD]

Good advice,What started my run.... I had a Bartok and it was great for the AB 1266 but not Susvara which all I did was read about them. After I heard them I decided to get more power and the LINA system cam out so I went for it. It's really good but I found with the upgrade patch and 2.o I missed my Bartok. Silly maybe but I also like the all in one piece approach at the time.
Always had and loved E-stat speakers so now that they seem to be more in use I got the bug to try something on the high end like Warwick Aperia etc.I just auditioned Shangrli-la JR . the unit had a problem but I could tell I would never be happy unless I went TOTL . So I'm back to considering Planar again
Thanks for your time and input good things to think on

 

[TDHEAD]

Will do thx

Well I’ve answered my question and completed my search. I chose not to go to electrostats and did the following:

Purchased the HiFiman Susvara Bundle. Kept my Lina DAC. Best decision I could have made. The new Susvara has new cable replacing the rubber tube set up and to my ears it’s terrific. The combination of the Susvara amp and the Lina seems like i hit a sweet spot. New out of the box with no breaking on either the Susvara’s or the AMP I am having what I can only call transformational listening experience truly. None of my Riggs ever sounded this good ever………can’t wait until I have some miles on the system. No BS the HiFiman amp is for the Susvara nirvana. I am so glad I went this direction. WOW! BTW what’s the lifecycle of these tubes? Anyone ?

 

[Spawn300Z]

Congrats, enjoy. I went the Riviera AIC-10 route and feel the same. Especially since it don’t give off as much heat and only 1 tube to roll.

 

[BassicScience]

Well I’ve answered my question and completed my search. I chose not to go to electrostats and did the following:

Purchased the HiFiman Susvara Bundle. Kept my Lina DAC. Best decision I could have made. The new Susvara has new cable replacing the rubber tube set up and to my ears it’s terrific. The combination of the Susvara amp and the Lina seems like i hit a sweet spot. New out of the box with no breaking on either the Susvara’s or the AMP I am having what I can only call transformational listening experience truly. None of my Riggs ever sounded this good ever………can’t wait until I have some miles on the system. No BS the HiFiman amp is for the Susvara nirvana. I am so glad I went this direction. WOW! BTW what’s the lifecycle of these tubes? Anyone ?

Preamp tubes typically last 5000-10000 hours. You'll usually start to hear tube rush or spitting noises when it's time to replace them. I recommend turning off the amp when you're not using it, and the tubes should then last you several years. The tubes will reach thermal equilibrium within about 5-10 minutes of power on, and will be listenable after about a minute.

 

[TDHEAD]

Preamp tubes typically last 5000-10000 hours. You'll usually start to hear tube rush or spitting noises when it's time to replace them. I recommend turning off the amp when you're not using it, and the tubes should then last you several years. The tubes will reach thermal equilibrium within about 5-10 minutes of power on, and will be listenable after about a minute.

Helpful Thanks

 

[PhazeCrive]

What even causes the famous "low bass" on estats? Is the driver just physically unable to create enough excursion to reproduce low frequencies due to the internal design requirements?

 

[eskamobob1]

Hello everyone . Long time 2 channel guy, lots of audio over the years. Krell. B&W, Meridian, Wadia, Martin Logan etc. Its been about 10 years since my last system (have been saving for my next system for when retirement came ) That day came and last year I splurged and invested in a headphone system as my days of taking over a Room in the house with audio equipment have come to an end, fairly I might say for my wife: The system is:

The DCS Lina system
AB 1266 HP
Susvara HP

Great set up feel fortunate but am considering another direction. With all the systems I have had over many decades my favorite has always included electrostatic Speakers with a good sub woofer addition..............for my money the cleanest sounding I enjoyed most. I'm wondering if this translates to Headphones. I see more and more about them.

I am considering selling it all and getting into a hi-end E-stat headphone set up :Systems like:
Aperian by Warwick
Shangri-la JR hifiman
and others.......................I am not sure if I am making a good move given the above equipment but can't forget the sound of all my e-stats and the quick audition I was able to do with the crazy end Shangri-la SR ( a bit more than retirement allows.......

Anyone have thoughts, opinions, comments on the two types of systems, equipment ???????????????

Just for what its worth, you can get the shangri-la without the enegizer (18k list but realistically lower if you talk with a dealer). Even with a realy good enegizer that should still be in the realm of aperio cost wise.

Alternatively, you could stick with SUS and 1266 but swap out the amp. While I am quite fond of the lina dac, I suspect the amp isnt great (havent had it at home unfortunately but have heard it extensively at shows, and heard the dac without it). Something like a viva egoista 845, riviera AIC-10, traformatic primavera, or masskobo 465 would really take both cans to the next level.

 

[eskamobob1]

supposedly the tube amp that Raal makes has even better bass (never heard it)

I can confirm this. The tube amp make a massive difference for them. You can surpass it with great speaker amps, but it will cost a lot more than the tube amp for raal does.

As for the CA1A, honestly, im not super partial to it. Its got astonishing detail for its price, but I find the image separation (especialy depth wise) extremely poor when speaking of the other cans in this thread. This improves greatly with filters (pretty sure its a phase issue), but also just ends up falling more in line with SUS and the like as opposed to easily surpassing them like SR1A does.

Hmm, i would think about that twice. Are you happy with the extremely good dynamics and bass of the 1266? because you will lose that, all of it.

Eh, Ill disagree here. you are 100,000% right that no estat (or frankly any headphone at all) will do the subwoofer like bass of 1266, but IME, estats not having bass is just a meme due to the very poor source chains that have historically been available. Stuff like X9k, OG Omega, and basically any lambda will get to 95-98% of sus bass on the right chain (that is to say, better than almost any sus chain, but still not quite reaching as deep as something liek AIC-10 -> sus which has a massive bass focus). The problem is, the more conventional estat amps dont get there just in terms of power (IMO, estats are currently where stuff like OG HE6 was when it released with just nothing realy able to power it).

Honestly, I have a pet theory that shang sr is just as capable (if not more so) than sus in bass. Its just that we dont have anything that properly runs it yet (not even T2).

Would have been more convincing if they don't also sell the LINA on their web site...

Yes. I wouldn't trust litteraly anything joe says about source gear. He is a dealer first and that clearly shows in videos. The lina amp does wonderfully power 1266, but I've also heard it quite a bit better dollar for dollar.

What even causes the famous "low bass" on estats? Is the driver just physically unable to create enough excursion to reproduce low frequencies due to the internal design requirements?

See above in my comment. Its largely just due to the really poor quality amps that have been historically available (at quite exorbinant prices) for them IMO.

 

[Exekuhtor]

I wasn't talking purely about the bass of the 1266 and more of the general dynamics. I heard expensive headphones at Munich that felt absolutely lifeless (Stax, both DCA topdogs, Warwick Acoustic cans, etc).
When i listened to the X9000 i wasn't able to pick my own music, but i found a track that should move me, the most legendary rock track there is - "We will rock you" by Queen. It felt... absolutely dead. I had my friend listen to it (also an audiophile, also in this forum) and he said: "is it supposed to sound dead like this?" and i answered: "It's WE WILL ROCK YOU by QUEEN, of course it should ROCK and make you feel the intensity of the music!".
Since that moment my desire to own stax jumped down a cliff. Maybe i need good dynamics more than others, maybe Stax can't do air pressure the same way, but i do not suspect that it was only a matter of juice and power for these cans. I could be wrong, but that's my take on estats.

 

[eskamobob1]

I wasn't talking purely about the bass of the 1266 and more of the general dynamics. I heard expensive headphones at Munich that felt absolutely lifeless (Stax, both DCA topdogs, Warwick Acoustic cans, etc).
When i listened to the X9000 i wasn't able to pick my own music, but i found a track that should move me, the most legendary rock track there is - "We will rock you" by Queen. It felt... absolutely dead. I had my friend listen to it (also an audiophile, also in this forum) and he was like "is it supposed to sound dead like this?" and i answered: "It's WE WILL ROCK YOU by QUEEN, of course it should ROCK and make you feel the intensity of the music!".
Since that moment my desire to own stax jumped down a cliff. Maybe i need good dynamics more than others, maybe Stax can't do air pressure the same way, but i do not suspect that it was only a matter of juice and power for these cans. I could be wrong, but that's my take on estats.

I am by no means trying to convince you to get estats (they aren't for everyone, not even close), but I would think about the chains you heard them on. Basicaly all stax made amps are horrible IME (the brand new 700 is 'fine' but thats the best it gets imo), and honestly, I don't like the BHSE basicaly at all either. Estats are significantly more chain dependant than conventional cans ime, and that includes dac as well. Again, while estats aren't for everyone, if you didn't get intensity the chain wasn't pulling its weight ime

Basicaly my stance is: if you like high end planars (with the exception of 1266), estats will very likely satisfy you on the right chain. If you're a hard core dynamic lover I doubt anything short of he90 would do it and even that's a toss up

 

[Exekuhtor]

That might be true, but then every single estat i heard had a weak chain and i can't understand why at HIGHEND MUNICH they did not try to get one chain right. I have also no interest in spending 15k for something like a Woo 3ES + X9000 to try if it gets better. :/

 

[paradoxper]

That might be true, but then every single estat i heard had a weak chain and i can't understand why at HIGHEND MUNICH they did not try to get one chain right. I have also no interest in spending 15k for something like a Woo 3ES + X9000 to try if it gets better. :/

This is a consequence of having a disposition to not dig stats. It takes heroics to scale them to heights.

The BHSE which is a good baseline kind of stinks as an extreme.

 

[eskamobob1]

That might be true, but then every single estat i heard had a weak chain and i can't understand why at HIGHEND MUNICH they did not try to get one chain right. I have also no interest in spending 15k for something like a Woo 3ES + X9000 to try if it gets better. :/

I think 5he z10e works relay well for like 5500-6k, but yah. That's why I don't recomend stats to everyone.

As for show chains, honestly, don't try and find the logic. I can't count the number of 5 figure amps ive seen demoed with 1k new dacs. I seriously don't get it myself either, but yah. Never assume a show chain is any good basicaly at all ime

 

[Exekuhtor]

I mean, that's a shame. Especially when people like Zeos review a cheap new amp (i think it was the Fireflies, he hyped that thing up immensely) for Estats and proclaim that now the entry to a very good stax system is as low as it ever was and that a way more expensive stax system is probably not that much better (and not worth it), and if you want to dip your toes into stax, try it that way...
For the price of the good (decent? lol) stax amp i bought the Envy (and that thing with upgraded tubes is currently the sought after TOTL amp), but i was really 110% sure that i wanted that thing since it can bring TOTL planars to a new level (alongside dynamics), which i've extensively tested at Munich.
I like treble, i like big and airy sound with a huge soundstage, that's why i'm a Hifiman fanboy (not closed ones haha). So i was really looking forward to try some highend stax and was left very disappointed. Maybe i'll give it another shot in 5+ years or so, never say never...