Tidal Lossless Streaming

[Krutsch]

 
Oh, didn't know that.  
 
Well at least Tidal came out with desktop app and gapless steaming, so moving in right direction.  Just waiting for the Amarra with Tidal app to see if works any better.  I wouldn't be shocked if there's doesn't have gapless for some reason.

 
What's interesting, watching portions of the WWDC keynote, is that Apple is pitching many of the same features of TIDAL: curated playlists, included videos, being able to follow artists, et al.
 
In classic Apple style, they presented Apple Music like everything they are pitching is brand new and unique - much of it looked like TIDAL, if you ask me, minus the lossless quality aspect.
 
I was underwhelmed.
 
It will be interesting to see what audiophile vendors do to follow suit: will there be anything like Spotify Connect to allow device-direct streaming, using your app as a remote? BTW, I read that TIDAL is working on this, as well.

 

[jf4828]

So I didn't read all 78 pages.  However, I just thought I'd add my $0.02 based on my experience.  I've tried the following combos for Tidal:
1.  Win 7 PC -> Amanero USB to I2S -> Buffallo III SE DIY Dac --> Little Dot MKV headphone amp --> K701 and Etimotic ER4P....
2.  Macbook Pro -> Oppo BDP-105 (USB input) -> ATI AT1505 Amp -> Custom DIY Speakers
 
For option 1, I compared with bitperfect rips of the exact same tracks using Foobar2k as playback software.  Tidal sounds pretty decent.  However, it does not sound as good as Foobar....  I'd venture to say whatever I'm doing is not bit perfect....  It's definitely better than other streaming competition, but it just feels less open and  airy to me.  
 
For option 2, I compared bit perfect rips of tracks I have in my library using Audirvana as playback software.  Pretty much exactly the same experience here.  I'm in trial mode but I'm not sure I'll keep it as I don't think the playback is on par with standard redbook CD rips.
 
Hope this is not an offense to anyone, just what my ears are telling me.  I really want to like it as it's especially convenient while I'm at work writing code  However, I'm not getting the euphoria I get from direct rips or hi-res downloads.  The oppo was definitely at 16/44.1 but I'm not sure about the DIY dac as I don't have a display giving me the info.  

 

[iamoneagain]

  So I didn't read all 78 pages.  However, I just thought I'd add my $0.02 based on my experience.  I've tried the following combos for Tidal:
1.  Win 7 PC -> Amanero USB to I2S -> Buffallo III SE DIY Dac --> Little Dot MKV headphone amp --> K701 and Etimotic ER4P....
2.  Macbook Pro -> Oppo BDP-105 (USB input) -> ATI AT1505 Amp -> Custom DIY Speakers
 
For option 1, I compared with bitperfect rips of the exact same tracks using Foobar2k as playback software.  Tidal sounds pretty decent.  However, it does not sound as good as Foobar....  I'd venture to say whatever I'm doing is not bit perfect....  It's definitely better than other streaming competition, but it just feels less open and  airy to me.  
 
For option 2, I compared bit perfect rips of tracks I have in my library using Audirvana as playback software.  Pretty much exactly the same experience here.  I'm in trial mode but I'm not sure I'll keep it as I don't think the playback is on par with standard redbook CD rips.
 
Hope this is not an offense to anyone, just what my ears are telling me.  I really want to like it as it's especially convenient while I'm at work writing code  However, I'm not getting the euphoria I get from direct rips or hi-res downloads.  The oppo was definitely at 16/44.1 but I'm not sure about the DIY dac as I don't have a display giving me the info.  

For the Mac, have you tried it with Amarra sQ.  They offer a trial period as well.  They should be coming out with an integrate app sometime this month as well.   Thought I also read about some script that sends Tidal to Audirvana so you can it's sound benefits. Probably not as convenient as what the Amarra for Tidal app is going to be though.

 

[Cornan]

So I didn't read all 78 pages.  However, I just thought I'd add my $0.02 based on my experience.  I've tried the following combos for Tidal:
1.  Win 7 PC -> Amanero USB to I2S -> Buffallo III SE DIY Dac --> Little Dot MKV headphone amp --> K701 and Etimotic ER4P....
2.  Macbook Pro -> Oppo BDP-105 (USB input) -> ATI AT1505 Amp -> Custom DIY Speakers

For option 1, I compared with bitperfect rips of the exact same tracks using Foobar2k as playback software.  Tidal sounds pretty decent.  However, it does not sound as good as Foobar....  I'd venture to say whatever I'm doing is not bit perfect....  It's definitely better than other streaming competition, but it just feels less open and  airy to me.  

For option 2, I compared bit perfect rips of tracks I have in my library using Audirvana as playback software.  Pretty much exactly the same experience here.  I'm in trial mode but I'm not sure I'll keep it as I don't think the playback is on par with standard redbook CD rips.

Hope this is not an offense to anyone, just what my ears are telling me.  I really want to like it as it's especially convenient while I'm at work writing code  However, I'm not getting the euphoria I get from direct rips or hi-res downloads.  The oppo was definitely at 16/44.1 but I'm not sure about the DIY dac as I don't have a display giving me the info.  

Thank you for sharing. Just one question. You wrote about bit perfect rips...but no meansion about bit perfect playback? The new beta desktop app is suppose to be bit perfect...but still not useful for Wasapi and by design not truly bit perfect. Until they go out of beta I would download Asio Bridge on both the standard and beta app to make sure the playback is truly bit perfect. Also you need to have a wired network to ensure a good connection for the desktop app and to use off-line mode for mobile use. Check and try it before you descide. :rolleyes:

 

[chukwe]

I want to subscribe to Tidal when my trial ends next week but the price is showing £25.99.

I thought the price for lossless is £19.99 per month

 

[pedalhead]

I want to subscribe to Tidal when my trial ends next week but the price is showing £25.99.

I thought the price for lossless is £19.99 per month

Check out this article...

http://www.harderbloggerfaster.com/2015/04/tidal-has-raised-its-prices-by-30-after-just-one-month/

Looks like they've upped their prices to cover Apple's cut.. But you can still get it for the original price if you sign up on the Tidal web site.

I suspect it'll be the final nail in the coffin for Tidal if they increase to those prices across the board.

 

[vrapan]

I want to subscribe to Tidal when my trial ends next week but the price is showing £25.99.

I thought the price for lossless is £19.99 per month

Do it through the website not through the tidal app.

 

[chukwe]

Check out this article...

http://www.harderbloggerfaster.com/2015/04/tidal-has-raised-its-prices-by-30-after-just-one-month/

Looks like they've upped their prices to cover Apple's cut.. But you can still get it for the original price if you sign up on the Tidal web site.

I suspect it'll be the final nail in the coffin for Tidal if they increase to those prices across the board.

 
 

  Do it through the website not through the tidal app.

 
I just notice that you'll need to create the account through Tidal website. 
 
Because my account is already active (trial) in iTunes and it seems there is no way of deactivating the account, I've to waiting until the trial version expire before I can subscribe through Tidal Website.
 
Thanks all

 

[Chikolad]

My Android app was updated with version 1.5.0 - "new design for search".
Maybe that means that the search has been improved on the web/desktop app too?

 

[Cornan]

My Android app was updated with version 1.5.0 - "new design for search".
Maybe that means that the search has been improved on the web/desktop app too?

Well that is good news! New features is coming in a steady flow right now. I guess the pressure is on now when Apple is joining the arena? But, IMO there is nothing that Apple have done to get my attension....especially now when Tidal is starting to up their acts together and releasing updates regulary! Hopefully the new search engine is useful for all devices...touch wood. :rolleyes:

 

[jf4828]

So using VB-Audio Hi-Fi Cable (ASIO Bridge) does seem to add a little presence back in.  I've been listening to headphones too much today so my ears are a little too fatigued to fairly compare anything  I do like that Tidal lets you switch sound output drivers pretty quickly without stopping the music.  Switching between direct connection to Amanero and ASIO Bridge definitely makes a small difference.  Didn't compare this back to a reference track yet....
 
Just installed Amarra SQ+ on the Macbook and plugged it into the headphone rig.  Amarra can definitely bring back some presence with EQ with Tidal but the purist in me kinda cringes at this.  Yes, EQ does help bring back some of the recessed top end I'm missing.  I've been using a RME babyface to listen at work and I've been using the built in channel EQ to bring up the top end because I feel like its missing.  A/B between Tidal w/ Amarra vs the same track in Audirvana is clearly different to my ears.....  I'm tempted to record the DAC analog output with both and look at spectral analysis in Adobe Audition to quantify the difference....  If anyone is wondering, I've been using Alison Krauss' New Favorite as reference comparison.  I'm going to bed tonight though
 
Since the DAC I'm using is async USB (ESS 9018 based) I sincerely don't think the bits are all in the same order leaving Tidal vs Audirvana  I am pretty confident that Audirvana is bit perfect out.  The same track in Windows/Foobar vs OS X/Audirvana is indistinguishable to me.  As far as network goes, I'm running wired tonight and speedtest.net yields 168mbps down with 10ms latency; don't think network is the issue here.....
 
I also tried iPad Air -> RME Babyface (SPDIF optical out) -> Oppo BDP-105 --> DIY Speakers. In this case, I used the offline mode.  Results here were pretty similar to the Macbook in the same configuration...
 
Any other suggestions?  
 
As an aside, I really like Tidal's music selection and playlists.  I listened to one playlist (Top 500 songs of all time) all day long at work and rarely hit the next button  I've just long dreamt about a music service that can deliver CD quality; I'm just not convinced yet!  Once I'm convinced I'll probably start dreaming about a streaming service that can deliver DSD  BTW, DSD recordings are on another planet quality wise; I digress.

 

[Cornan]

So using VB-Audio Hi-Fi Cable (ASIO Bridge) does seem to add a little presence back in.  I've been listening to headphones too much today so my ears are a little too fatigued to fairly compare anything  I do like that Tidal lets you switch sound output drivers pretty quickly without stopping the music.  Switching between direct connection to Amanero and ASIO Bridge definitely makes a small difference.  Didn't compare this back to a reference track yet....

Just installed Amarra SQ+ on the Macbook and plugged it into the headphone rig.  Amarra can definitely bring back some presence with EQ with Tidal but the purist in me kinda cringes at this.  Yes, EQ does help bring back some of the recessed top end I'm missing.  I've been using a RME babyface to listen at work and I've been using the built in channel EQ to bring up the top end because I feel like its missing.  A/B between Tidal w/ Amarra vs the same track in Audirvana is clearly different to my ears.....  I'm tempted to record the DAC analog output with both and look at spectral analysis in Adobe Audition to quantify the difference....  If anyone is wondering, I've been using Alison Krauss' New Favorite as reference comparison.  I'm going to bed tonight though

Since the DAC I'm using is async USB (ESS 9018 based) I sincerely don't think the bits are all in the same order leaving Tidal vs Audirvana  I am pretty confident that Audirvana is bit perfect out.  The same track in Windows/Foobar vs OS X/Audirvana is indistinguishable to me.  As far as network goes, I'm running wired tonight and speedtest.net yields 168mbps down with 10ms latency; don't think network is the issue here.....

I also tried iPad Air -> RME Babyface (SPDIF optical out) -> Oppo BDP-105 --> DIY Speakers. In this case, I used the offline mode.  Results here were pretty similar to the Macbook in the same configuration...

Any other suggestions?  

As an aside, I really like Tidal's music selection and playlists.  I listened to one playlist (Top 500 songs of all time) all day long at work and rarely hit the next button  I've just long dreamt about a music service that can deliver CD quality; I'm just not convinced yet!  Once I'm convinced I'll probably start dreaming about a streaming service that can deliver DSD  BTW, DSD recordings are on another planet quality wise; I digress.

If you are hunting for the best possible performance with Tidal there is no short-cuts. You will just have to install both Jplay6 and Fidelizer Pro as well...despite Amarra sQ/Foobar/what ever player. The combination Tidal>Asio Bridge>Jplay6>Fidelizer Pro is just awsome. I also head a rumour that Jplay Streamer is coming for Tidal that would count for extra ordinary performance and on top of that useful with tablets! Still, the iPad app have the best usabillity IMO. Anyway, my suggestion is to buy Jplay6 and Fidelizer Pro. You will most certainly be a happy camper!

Edit: when using Asio Bridge it is important to add VB cable as sound output in both player and as default computer sound device to get bitperfect playback (with 44.1 Hz/16 bits settings). When adding a device in Asio Bridge you will add your Asio driver in the devices...and if using Jplay you must add a suitable Jplay driver there and add your Asio driver in Jplay settings. Running Fidelizer Pro you should select Extremist/Network render optimization for best results. :rolleyes:

 

[stuartmc]

Thanks for the Asio Bridge tip. I'm using a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet running Windows 8.1 pro and there was definitely an increase in resolution using it with Tidal. I'm also using the Thysecon driver with a Tanly Audio USB-DDC.

I also gave the Fidelizer trial version a shot, but heard zero sound improvement. My tablet is only being used as my music player with no extraneous software or functions so perhaps there is less to be optimized by Fedelizer.

 

[Cornan]

Thanks for the Asio Bridge tip. I'm using a Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet running Windows 8.1 pro and there was definitely an increase in resolution using it with Tidal. I'm also using the Thysecon driver with a Tanly Audio USB-DDC.

I also gave the Fidelizer trial version a shot, but heard zero sound improvement. My tablet is only being used as my music player with no extraneous software or functions so perhaps there is less to be optimized by Fedelizer.

You are welcome!
 
IMO Fidelizer Free is the best free audio software around...and Fidelizer Pro is one of my best buy when it comes to audio improvements. I am not familiar with Tanly Audio or the Lenovo Thinkpad...but if the Thinkpad have Windows 8.1 pro and the audio is going through USB to the Tanly Audio device (supposing that this is your DAC) I am surprices that you do not hear any improvements. Have you chosen Extremist Optimization and ticked Network and User Experiance? This is by far the best option with Fidelizer Free and works like a charm with Tidal.
If the tablet is mailny used as a player you must make sure to optimize your audiophile player....eg Tidal.exe. This is however a minor improvement in my experiance. But by your description of your setup I would guess that you are actually using the tablet as a computer...not as a player only...but I could´nt be sure?
Also, since you are running windows 8.1 I would personally download Jplay6. You will have the option to use the JplayStreamer with a huge sound improvement. Check it out on www.jplay.eu.
 
Edit: Just googled your devices and realized that Tanly Audio it is actually a USB converter that are feeding your DAC. This is actually similar setup that I have. My computer is connected to Stello U3 USB/Spdif that is connected to my DacMagic Plus DAC (plus Aqvox Linear USB PSU and iFi Purifier). As far as I can see you are using the Lenovo Thinkpad as a computer and should really benefit from Fidelizer Free if the setting is Extremist with Network/User Experiance ticked and of course running it before you start listening to Tidal via your computer tablet. Also make sure that Asio Bridge is running in bitperfect mode (ie. the volume on Lenovo is not working)...otherwise you will need to make sure that all the setting is correct....ie. VB cable in Tidal, VB cable as Lenovos default sound device with 16/44.1 settings and exclusive mode (both modes ticked) plus your TheSycon Driver selected in Asio Bridge. Also make sure that the settings in TheSycon driver is Minimum latency and as low buffer as possible. For me it works with 64 samples with minimum latency. Hope that helps!
 
Edit2: If you do not use DPC Latency checker already I would advice you to download it here http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml, run it while you are listening to Tidal to ensure that there is no latency problems. You are looking to achieve a low green staple (no yellow or red at all). Adjust the TheSycon driver to a different value and see what happens. Sometimes a low buffer sample is actually preferred than a higher one. Also other factors like hardware can be the problem as well as drivers or Wifi etc. Check the DCP latency checker manual for more info.

 

[toolio]

A question for all you Tidal sound optimizers. What's the difference in sound between a fully tweaked PC or Mac and feeding Tidal to a DAC with an iPad and camera connection kit? It's certainly a lot easier to use a Tidal on an iPad, IMHO.