[tha_dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please specify which Larry when you post these things. You mean Larry Milligan at Welcome to LaRocco Audio and NOT other Larry's (like Larry at Headphile or me).

Sorry about that, I edited my post. By saying Xin is almost "as bad as Larry" I thought we'd know which Larry I was referring to but I realize there is some room for confusion.

 

[drc73rp]

Im nearing the end of my rope as well. As soon as my headsix arrives (hopefully next week) and my Beta22 project gets underway (about the same time) im cancelling my order for a Reference. Im nearing 6 months from date of order. I need to move on with my life.

 

[tnmike1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnaKinDV8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Im nearing the end of my rope as well. As soon as my headsix arrives (hopefully next week) and my Beta22 project gets underway (about the same time) im cancelling my order for a Reference. Im nearing 6 months from date of order. I need to move on with my life.

cancelled my order yesterday. Heck with him and his amps.

 

[Jaw007]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnmike1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif cancelled my order yesterday. Heck with him and his amps.

How many months have you been waiting?

 

[Quaddy]

lot of cancellations happening here.
thats not good, anyway you wanna paint it, in the xin camp or not.

damn shame all you guys who waited patiently didnt get what you ordered.

nearing the 7mth mark here, i am too stubborn to have wasted that time to cancel as i want the reference amp, as a good quality spare if for nothing else, apart from the xin house sound, and trivial as it seems, the 1/4" jacks are very handy - now i have settled on 2 portable amps it is far less important to me, i havent been charged yet, and will continue to wait.

good luck to all in the queue and, godspeed!

OP wanna change the title of this thread? :

:

Those who waiting Xin amp, post your date of cancellation !

 

[tk3]

Things not looking too good around here.

I am in the same boat as you Quaddy, nearly 7 months (kind of sad if you look at the big picture).

Only reason I haven't canceled is because I have waited too long for it already, and he probably wouldn't even respond anyway.
But since I already have a portable amp, it does not bother me that much.
It is more of a "new toy" curiosity thing, and the convenience of the 200+ hr battery life, plus whatever enhanced sonic qualities it may have above my current amp.

 

[slwiser]

There are just so many other great portable amps out there today to keep on being hung on waiting. As much as I enjoy my Beta Reference this story is really sad. I can't help but think that there is another story behind this that we haven't heard but should have to have some real explanation as to why these amps are taking so long. I think this is my first post concerning the Xin Reference other than a simple note in almost six months. This is an embarrassment to anyone (especially me) who has encouraged anyone else to put good money into Dr. Xin's operation.

 

[tha_dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are just so many other great portable amps out there today to keep on being hung on waiting. As much as I enjoy my Beta Reference this story is really sad. I can't help but think that there is another story behind this that we haven't heard but should have to have some real explanation as to why these amps are taking so long. I think this is my first post concerning the Xin Reference other than a simple note in almost six months. This is an embarrassment to anyone (especially me) who has encouraged anyone else to put good money into Dr. Xin's operation.

Just wondering, since you have a Beta Reference, are there any portable amps you've heard that offer comparable or better sound quality?

I realize it's a beta and everyone hears differently but maybe your thoughts could offer some suggestions to those that decided to cancel or are seeking an alternative.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is an embarrassment to anyone (especially me) who has encouraged anyone else to put good money into Dr. Xin's operation.

His inaction certainly isn't your fault; it was based on past experience. While not stellar it was at least acceptable.

[soapbox] I guess the only takeway for reviewers and general public is to not get too worked up over betas. Reviews on them are based on work in progress (which you and others certainly call out properly) but a beta may never make it to production. In this case I think there was major over-hype which provided way too much legitimacy for this particular product. A prototype shouldn't be placed into the list of XXX amps reviewed in my opinion. Finished production, unmodified products that a noob would expect to recieve belong in them to prevent a lot of people from being hung out to dry. [/soapbox]

Now, watch him ship out his entire backlog this week

 

[mrarroyo]

Although I received two Beta versions (sent one back) I was able to listen to HiFlight's Reference which was a production model (with Xin you never know). I loved it and I ranked as high based on that audition.

It is a pity that Xin has basically disapeared. His amps have IMO been fantastic and for those willing to tweak a lot of fun. I will not wonder or speculate on why he is not available but it sure has disapointed a bunch of buyers.

 

[jamato8]

There are many variables. I have heard the Reference that was sent to Skylab, HiFlight and others to review and this Is Not what the Reference is supposed to sound like. It is like Skylab described and while not a bad amp what I have is a step above in all areas of sound. I just want it known that not all the References are the same and that the opinion that has been posted on the Reference passed around for review is not what the Reference was supposed to sound like but I do agree with what was expressed about the sound.

As to lack of contact from Xin, I am sorry for this. If I could do anything I would but I do not hear Xin either.

 

[itsborken]

Just want to clarify I'm not trying to beat you guys up over this; the only difference between you and the rest is Xin happened to send the amps your way. Just to get it out, I'm not implying he's seeded the reviewers as others have received References too.

One thought on what's been said--if his amps aren't consistent that's not good either. As long as they are coming out one at a time it's really hard to put that stake in the ground as to what everyone else will eventually receive. One can hope, but that's not really what the goal of a review should be as it's potentially a disservice to the readers.

I know your guys hearts are in the right place and you want to provide the best information possible to help others get the most value for their purchase. For caring enough to do that, I can't say thank you enough for what you do.

 

[DDW]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just want to clarify I'm not trying to beat you guys up over this; the only difference between you and the rest is Xin happened to send the amps your way. Just to get it out, I'm not implying he's seeded the reviewers as others have received References too. One thought on what's been said--if his amps aren't consistent that's not good either. As long as they are coming out one at a time it's really hard to put that stake in the ground as to what everyone else will eventually receive. One can hope, but that's not really what the goal of a review should be as it's potentially a disservice to the readers. I know your guys hearts are in the right place and you want to provide the best information possible to help others get the most value for their purchase. For caring enough to do that, I can't say thank you enough for what you do.

+1

My dissappointment is with how Xin handles business.

Generally, there seems to not be too much to complain about in regards to product performance and the main reason I ordered was based on rave reviews of products.
I knew going into this that there would be some wait times and communication wasn't the best.
But, I didn't know wait times would be THIS rediculous and communication would be THIS HORRIBLE.

I am even very open and understanding to the fact that this is a one-man show and that he (apparently) has another job and might be doing this on the side. But, even if he only put in a piddly 5-10 hours a week, I would think there would have been at least a few more amps being shipped and a little more consistancy and communication efforts.

Also, I agree with itsborken about consistancy in the product.

Obviously, everyone will be hoping for the best sounding one, but the VERY Large majority of us wouldn't know for sure which version we have.

- Jamato,

What was the difference between yours vs. Skylab's and HiFlight's?

How can we "visually" distinguish and confirm which version we have (assuming we ever get "SOMTHING".)?

I have seen (and copied) some various pictures posted of some of the various prototypes, but I still don't know which one is best or which one is standard production. I am curious if anybody knows which one is standard production.

According to Jamato, his sounded better than Skylab's and HiFlight's.

My understanding is that Jamato had/has a version with 12,000 caps (????). But, I also thought I read where Jamato had added Black Gates. I assume these Black Gates are not standard with the Xin Reference (???)

Quote from Jamato on Xin's forum: "My 12,000uf Reference with a coupld of Black Gates I bypassed with is nothing short of purity of sound."

So, Jamato, what are you comparing to Skylab's and HiFlight's References? - Your beta Reference as you received it? Or you customized and modified Beta with Black Gates?

Another Quote from Jamato: "The 12,000, 3 opamp Reference version is the best of the Reference series I have heard."


Then there is this quote from HiFlight: "My Reference has the 22,000uf cap. It sounds superb! I did bypass mine with a 47uf Blackgate Hi-Q cap. It replaced the polarized bypass cap of unknown value."

So, even HiFlight's version has been tweaked by himself and not a Xin factory standard (????????????)

So, the more I read and more I research, the more I wonder how good the Xin Reference actually even sounds in it's "Base" form (??????????) - since so many of the Betas seem to be modified and upgraded after leaving Xin by their current owners (????????)

I honestly don't know anything about opamps (or even Caps for that matter). Most of you guys know WAY more about the technical stuff than I know. But, I like info and like to learn. I want good sound. What different opamp configurations have been provided or are being used?

What is involved with adding Black Gates? How much does it cost? How hard a project? What are the steps involved? Where do you get Black Gates? And what are the advantages and improvements?

Hypothetically, there is always talk about Xin trying to provide the best possible amps and best possible sound. If this is the "Reference" and Black Gates improve the sound, why doesn't Xin include Black Gates?

Here are some pictures I collected - I don't remember where they are from. And unfortunately, I didn't make note of any potentially worthy info that may have been associated with each picture.
But, they have different caps and the circuit boards "Look" different.

Also, there had been talk about 22,000 Caps, but I don't know what the advantages may or may not be. It appears the 22,000 option may be gone - good or bad (?????)

Can anybody explain the differences?


Xin Beta Reference circuit board with 15,000 Cap from 2007:

Xin Beta Reference (different) circuit board with 12,000 Cap from 2007:

Xin Beta Reference with yet ANOTHER different circuit board and 22,000uF Cap (*** STILL posted on Xin's original thread ???????):

Which (what are the odds) looks very different from this following pic that is posted on the VERY SAME Post by Xin:

And of course the circuit board is "AGAIN" different:

I wouldn't be at all surprised if there even many more variations. I have been trying to keep up, but with over 300 pages of posts on this thread and on Xin's forum combined, it is VERY hard to have read everything let alone keep it all straight in my head - or remember over so many months....



Then, if all those variable weren't enought, there has even been talk about different solder quality equating to different sound quality........

Who knows what else?

Basically, we have NO IDEA what we are getting ........

With so many different betas and with having read about so many diffferent upgrade options for micros and macros and so on, I wouldn't be surprised if there will be many different variations of the Reference.

How are we supposed to keep track of "best" options?

It almost seems like just emptying random parts bins or something (?????)

Heaven forbid I get a reference and find out it has the parts that weren't intended to be final / best production model.

I don't think I could stand the wait for "Upgrades".

What a nightmare. - for me anyway.

Obviously, some people like to tune and tinker more than others.

I just want the best and be done with it to enjoy my music.

But, it would be nice to get an amp.

I don't really want to buy another to hold me over til pigs fly or whenever.....

.

 

[dazzer1975]

life's too short, ive got an iqube and voyager, pico comig soon and getting a lisa 3 and then a home amp and might pick up the odd xin amp used, but nothing is this good to wait for, hell, I wouldn't wait for a woman this long, let alone a poxy amp.

 

[Quaddy]

@DDW - good post man, deals with stuff not mentioned before (that i have seen)

regarding people on this forum who were sent a reference, having modified it away from stock using additional capacitors is a tad misleading if this wasnt mentioned plainly in any mini-review or commendation of the amp.

we all know it has different flavours, with its evolution, with xin

but i for one would like clarification from the head-fi posters who have been singing its praises as to whether this opinion was based on what was received or upgraded/modified units.