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The Zishan dsd's corner

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by neog007, Nov 17, 2016.
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  1. Themilkman46290
    Yeah what merlin says, its also good to check the legs on the op amp, one of the legs of my ad823 was a little off and had same issues in my z3, also had something fall into the socket hole where the opamp legs go in and it had similar effect on my z1
     
    silverfishla and DBaldock9 like this.
  2. HeyManslowdown97

    “convolution” not conversion. It was a typo.

    “to the basic electrical practices, how are they related to Moore's law? Moore's law is related to transistor count increase in CPUs, while LDO's have had only few transistors for for last 30 years since they were introduced....”

    No comment.

    “Computer chips, both for CPU and memory, are composed of semiconductor materials. Semiconductors make it possible to miniaturize electronic components, such as transistors. Not only does miniaturization mean that the components take up less space, it also means that they are faster and require less energy.”

    LDOs power the CPUs as well. It’s a computer chip. The ministurization is Moore’s Law. The CPU is also POWERED by the LDOs as well on the Zishan Motherboard! Basic electrical knowledge probably would explain noise from the ground if they are not performing up to par on the Motherboard and CPU/Oscillator performance so it would effect YOUR sound on the DAC or if you Spinal tap your DAC with the Op1622 mod then wonder why you are getting noise with you connect the DAC to the LED, it’s controllers and the CPU. So you are saying the Stock ones are just as good?? Then why did you change them and keeping saying they “rock” because something isn’t adding up? What “rocks”? The Matrix Quote??

    Please explain what you mean then but it “rocks”?

    I scratch my head why someone would put a Opa1622 which is designed for headphone Amps without crossfeed circuitry in the Zishan damaged the board trying to get rid of ground noise then asking for charity to solve this problem for it?

    I’m struggling to understand.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  3. Ivan TT
    Apologies, I’m quite happy to share the knowledge (give AND receive), but I only feel like doing it in the context of mutual respect and appreciation, the way this thread used to be (and will be, I’m certain).
    I refuse to donate my time to trolling, personal agendas and confrontation (if that’s not the case again my apologies, I’ve got it wrong then but I still don’t feel like repeating Merlin-PT’s experience, helping out only to be insulted)
    As one of members said unsubscribing “life’s too short” and I respect and treasure my time and energy.
    Peace and good luck with your mods, would be good to see some photos of them implemented and impressions about the change how Zishan sounds.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  4. HeyManslowdown97
    An integrated circuit (IC), sometimes called a chip or microchip, is a semiconductor wafer on which thousands or millions of tiny resistors, capacitors, and transistors are fabricated. An IC can function as an amplifier, oscillator, timer, counter, computer memory, or microprocessor.

    The Zishan is MICRO electronics. Again Moore’s Law. Some say it’s over though now you have TPU’s like in Google’s Pixel Tech that use cloud service AI so you don’t need two lens to supremes results compared to the market forces.

    “Advancements in digital electronics are strongly linked to Moore's law: quality-adjusted microprocessor prices,[11]memory capacity, sensors and even the number and size of pixelsin digital cameras.[12] Digital electronics has contributed to world economic growth in the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries.[13] Moore's law describes a driving force of technological and social change, productivity, and economic growth.[14][15][16][17]

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore's_law

    Texas Instruments has over 2,000 schemes including a headphone amp for free. You might wanna start there first before you attempt to juxtapose one on the Zishan board.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  5. nesty
    Guys, just asking I want to pull the trigger on zishan dsd and I have watching thread in the past days. Curious question.. what sound signature does the zishan dsd emits when compared with other good/best sounding daps?

    I have zishan z1 and I just plan to upgrade.. In my z1 I only did opamp swapping with 1692, 2209, Sparkos, Burson, and ADA tiers. I would love to do the mods than by IvanTT and Merlin and just seeking some opinions. Honestly, I have not hear the sound of the Zishan DSD. Thanks.
     
    DBaldock9 likes this.
  6. Ivan TT
    It's a really, really tricky one.
    In stock you probably will be somewhat underwhelmed, I still enjoy and long Z1-mx500 synergy, which has nothing to do with correct reproduction across frequency/dynamics/soundstage domains, but has "magic" written all over it. Do not expect it from DSD, especially in stock.
    Having said that DSD is (even in stock) is a details/uncoloured/true-the-way-it-is monster and mods bring out those qualities even more, but it's a different kind of magic game, analytical approach taken to a level where it is (quoting U2) "even better than the real thing".
    And then your Z1 experience is lost as the pure musicality of delivery is still there, but you long the details and clarity of DSD's presentation, while not having that musicality of Z1's delivery.
    There's a saying used a lot on a russian couterpart forum, "audiophile has to suffer", it's very, very unfortunately true :floatsmile:
    Is it worth it still? (upgrading to DSD)
    Absolutely!
     
  7. DBaldock9
    I've done a bit of poking around, with my Voltmeter, and determined that the +3.7Vdc (+3.98Vdc actually) from the battery gets switched through to the analog board, when the DSD is powered On.

    I'm currently looking on eBay, to see if there are any DC-DC Step-Up converters, that have symmetrical (+) and (-) voltage outputs (12V to 15V), with enough current to power all three output op-amps (2x for Balanced, 1x for Single-Ended). Seems like most of them have a fairly small amount of output current.

    An alternate would be to use a higher current, single output DC-DC Step-Up converter (24V to 30V), adding a low impedance ground buffer, to create a virtual, centered GND, and +V & -V rails.
     
    HeyManslowdown97 likes this.
  8. nesty
    @Ivan TT , sounds very convincing now..the challenge of doing the mods is one of the things that influence DIY'ers like us :) :) Thanks
     
  9. HeyManslowdown97
    Sounds very practical. I’ve been asking about how to do this like forever. This is the ONLY mod I’m interested in. Of course it doesn’t get the traction it should. Would love to see how to do this when completing your results.

    Increasing the Voltage would allow the amps to play better. I’m thinking.

    Personally, I believe the gain in the lpf is too high. I think they do this as a gimmick. First impression when gain or volume is high that it sounds better but it’s not true and often causes clipping. The recording practices have also changed a lot from the days of analog as they tend to jack up the dbs close to 0 and normalize with less head room. In the analog does they were more frugal in played it safe for the sake of dynamic range.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2019
  10. Themilkman46290
    Does anyone know if there will be ak4499 version?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2019
    endia, ThanosD, Ivan TT and 1 other person like this.
  11. Draknodd
    Because an output impedance of 22Ohms for a portable player means that you won't able to drive most of the hybrid/multi-BA iems on the market without distortions and frequency response alterations.
    I would have removed them but not without replacing the discrete buffer output stage, which, I guess, still needs a bit of short circuit protection.
    Decreasing the output impedance will improve the performance of hybrid and multiBA iems.
    When I'll replace the discrete buffer output stage with an operational amplifier I'll remove those 10ohm resistors too to have the lowest possible output impedance.

    I upgraded the firmware to my zishan to 0.4I version and I confirm the feedback that IvanTT has given about the sound: better highs and better soundstage.

    I still dont't like the sub bass response of the zishan, I'll try to replace the output caps with bigger ones hoping to improve the sub bass response.

    About replacing the discrete ouput buffer, any thought about the tpa6120 mod that MerlinPT has linked from the russian forum? Has anyone tried a buf634 mod?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2019
  12. HeyManslowdown97
    So you lower the dbs on the tracks. Same principle and problem solved with more control with Eq and Digital filters. Also by jacking up the resistors doesn’t drive the iems only jacks up the Ohms. How doesn’t it distort frequencies if anything they would be underpowered. Voltage would be a better option as in Ohms Law.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2019
  13. Draknodd
    Sorry but I'm unable to understand how is this correlated to a completely screwed up freq. reponse.
     
  14. HeyManslowdown97
    All you doing is jacking up the gain to hear those frequencies. If anything if it’s ohms are underpowered it would sound more like an old Rotary phone receiver because ohms can’t “power” the headphones.

    When you Jack up the gain you get distortion and noise. Not the other way around.

    This how you get the FX on a distortion pedal in electric guitars same principle at work. This is Basic stuff.

    I believe DC Step ups and getting the voltage up is a better option but I’m not as advanced Ivan so we’ll just have to get his input before the thread does anything and then folks his lead regardless.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
  15. ThanosD
    I updated the firmware to 0.4I too, but got some crashes, 3 in a day, the 2 with a time gap of 10 seconds (crashed, booted off, booted on, started playing, crashed again). The files that were playing when this happened were some mp3s, 44.1k 16bit.
    Also, are the colours more saturated (mainly on the spectrograph), or is it in my mind?
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2019
    Merlin-PT likes this.
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