[uchihaitachi]

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See, the thing is the 4.A(i) are neither light on bass (it actually has a bass focus in its signature) nor neutral (bass focus + dip in upper mids/lower treble = !neutral)...  You were told one thing, and got another. 

To be fair, even the Tzar 350 product description is off. It's considered neutral and it isn't at all. It's a detail monster with a huge spike in the upper registers. I like my 4ai and I really like my Tzar 350 but the product descriptions are highly inaccurate.

 

[serious7]

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See, the thing is the 4.A(i) are neither light on bass (it actually has a bass focus in its signature) nor neutral (bass focus + dip in upper mids/lower treble = !neutral)...  You were told one thing, and got another. 

The 4.A(i) is not light on the bass? I thought my understand of the heir line was as follows:
 
3= bassy
4 = less bassy + analytical
8 = 4 + bassy.
 
There's a lot of songs i've heard where there is bass on my desktop setup but there's literally nothing on the 4A. 

 

[serious7]

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To be fair, even the Tzar 350 product description is off. It's considered neutral and it isn't at all. It's a detail monster with a huge spike in the upper registers. I like my 4ai and I really like my Tzar 350 but the product descriptions are highly inaccurate.

you own the 350 as well? So you own 8a, 4a, and 350. Who do you go to the most?

 

[uchihaitachi]

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you own the 350 as well? So you own 8a, 4a, and 350. Who do you go to the most?

When I listen to classical music especially concertos, 350. The 8a for more mainstream music. The 4ai for not much. It's been gathering dust since the 350's arrival.

 

[serious7]

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When I listen to classical music especially concertos, 350. The 8a for more mainstream music. The 4ai for not much. It's been gathering dust since the 350's arrival.

hmm the 350 looks like a possibility for me. If anyone wants to trade their tzar 350 for my tzar 90 + cash, let me know. I'd be down to do it. 

 

[uchihaitachi]

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hmm the 350 looks like a possibility for me. If anyone wants to trade their tzar 350 for my tzar 90 + cash, let me know. I'd be down to do it. 

Just to warn you however, the 350 sounds abhorrent with pop music etc just incredibly sibilant.

 

[doublea71]

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Outside the review material and information from the manufacturer, there really wasn't much he could do.  It's tough to test these IEMs before you buy unfortunately, which is problematic.  There is no returns or safety for him to turn to either.  His problem wasn't the researching side, it was the information he got through the research, it just wasn't accurate.  Unfortunately, that's all that was around when he was researching.  It's tough to find good information when none of it is accurate.  You can't find the needle in the haystack, especially when the needle isn't there to begin with.  He just had a lot of hay to play with, and that just ain't fun.
 
As for selling them, they are 4.A if I'm not mistaken.  Reselling a custom is a pain in the butt.  Heir does make it a little easier by allowing the transfer of ownership service though. 

Why is there an assumption that he had to do anything at all? His research was actually a problem; he bought them based on purely subjective information (user reviews, manufacturer descriptions). If he was not aware that he was making a purchase without any real evidence, it's on him. All he had to do was wait until some independent measurements appeared...he took a gamble thinking he had proof, so he has nobody to blame but himself.

 

[vwinter]

All he had to do was wait until some independent measurements appeared...he took a gamble thinking he had proof, so he has nobody to blame but himself.

Just to put this into perspective, it took like 2 years for independent measurements of the GR07 to surface. That's a long time to sit on a potential purchase.

 

[tinyman392]

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Why is there an assumption that he had to do anything at all? His research was actually a problem; he bought them based on purely subjective information (user reviews, manufacturer descriptions). If he was not aware that he was making a purchase without any real evidence, it's on him. All he had to do was wait until some independent measurements appeared...he took a gamble thinking he had proof, so he has nobody to blame but himself.

 
Generally speaking, subjective information can be fine if you're looking into research...  If the information agrees with each other, then it can be taken as true until something different comes along.  You make the statement that all he had to do was wait for measurements...  The problem with that is, like subjective information, graphs can lie to you as much as subjective impressions can.  Neither are fool proof. 
 
The problem with the Heir Audio impressions was that they were all the same touting the same characteristics.  When that many people have the same impressions, then it can be said that the headphones will have those features.  To be honest, the 4.Ai did have those features listed.  Strong, present bass that wasn't too strong that can provide natural timbre in the low end.  Detailed lower midrange with ample clarity up top and a nice splash of treble that isn't too strong.  Those are all things the graph will confirm are there, I can confirm them as well personally speaking.  So he wasn't lied to, but the information he asked for was answered inaccurately.
 
I've seen this pop up way too much in the Heir thread(s), someone asks a question, and gets a response that is a "yes".  They did what the manufacturer did when they should not have. 
 
Placing the entire blame on him is definitely untrue.  He was simply one of the people who were mislead on the sound.  EVERYONE in the Heir thread stated, the 4.Ai are neutral, no frequency is boosted over another, etc.  EVERYONE.  He did his research, was told they were neutral, and they turned out not to be.  He is not entirely to blame.  He was told countless times they were neutral, I even believed they were neutral until I got them.
 
Quote:

Just to put this into perspective, it took like 2 years for independent measurements of the GR07 to surface. That's a long time to sit on a potential purchase.

 
Fortunately for the GR07, they put the IEM in the hands of people who could tell you what signature it had specifically, and what characteristics it had with good accuracy.  Heir Audio really hasn't done that, and they continue not to in a timely fashion.  I forget if it was Joker or Clie that was supposed to be part of the tour, but they dropped out, IDK why. 

 

[doublea71]

I think we should file this whole thing under either "**** happens" or "First-world problems"
 

 

[serious7]

Quote:

Why is there an assumption that he had to do anything at all? His research was actually a problem; he bought them based on purely subjective information (user reviews, manufacturer descriptions). If he was not aware that he was making a purchase without any real evidence, it's on him. All he had to do was wait until some independent measurements appeared...he took a gamble thinking he had proof, so he has nobody to blame but himself.

Not everyone knows how to read measurements. 

 

[doublea71]

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Generally speaking, subjective information can be fine if you're looking into research...  If the information agrees with each other, then it can be taken as true until something different comes along.

So if 3 people see Richard Nixon's face in a potato, I can trust that it is indeed Richard Nixon's face until somebody disagrees? It's still his fault. He had zero empirical evidence, so he was trusting what other people heard subjectively, trust being the key word. It's a bit of a bummer, but sometimes people are just wrong about stuff.

 

[tinyman392]

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So if 3 people see Richard Nixon's face in a potato, I can trust that it is indeed Richard Nixon's face until somebody disagrees? It's still his fault. He had zero empirical evidence, so he was trusting what other people heard subjectively, trust being the key word. It's a bit of a bummer, but sometimes people are just wrong about stuff.

 
You should be able to trust that there is some sort of face that can resemble Nixon's.  Even the "empirical evidence" you speak of is highly subjective when interpreted. 

 

[lee730]

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So if 3 people see Richard Nixon's face in a potato, I can trust that it is indeed Richard Nixon's face until somebody disagrees? It's still his fault. He had zero empirical evidence, so he was trusting what other people heard subjectively, trust being the key word. It's a bit of a bummer, but sometimes people are just wrong about stuff.

It happens all the time though. You get burned on purchases. Just have to take the loss and sell the gear and hope for better luck the next time you roll the dice. Even add the people who coaxed you into the purchase to your ignore list as you most likely do not hear things the way they do (different preferences and perceptions of sound).. With time it gets easier to search out reputable impressions/reviews on gear. Once you find people who generally share your thoughts on sound and preferences it makes the risk that much lower.

 

[uchihaitachi]

Quote:

So if 3 people see Richard Nixon's face in a potato, I can trust that it is indeed Richard Nixon's face until somebody disagrees? It's still his fault. He had zero empirical evidence, so he was trusting what other people heard subjectively, trust being the key word. It's a bit of a bummer, but sometimes people are just wrong about stuff.

If a person is new to head-fi with no prior knowledge of engineering let alone audio products, he or she will only have accessible information in the form of subjective reviews. It's nobody's fault really. Heir did what any company would do, write favourably regarding its products. Serious7 fell into the same trap as most newbies would.