The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.

[gadgetgod]

IEM pricing structures are a mystery to me, they seem wonky at best, even when factoring in R&D, materials, components, and manufacturing. I'm guessing the country of origin plays a role as well. In some cases, pricing seems wildly misaligned with SQ, features, and components. I'd love to see a comprehensive cost breakdown of some of the most popular IEMs in various price brackets.

I'm not even getting into the "value" aspect because that varies based on individual preference. What distinguishes a $500 set from a $1000 set? What distinguishes a $3000 set from a $6000 set? Things like the exclusivity of limited productions, I'm sure play a role. What other measurement/s is there? Supply and demand?

Accepting the fact that many will prefer the SQ of more expensive sets - while others may prefer sets in a lower price bracket, over more expensive sets. Is marketing psychology at play, FOMO, or other dynamics? Just seems wild to me the huge pricing differences.

I would say, a lot of things have to be seen when it comes to pricing. A premium brand from the US/UK and other Western countries will come up with either 1-2 products in a year priced in the mid to top-tier brackets while Chi-Fi brands will release 10-15 products in the same time span sometimes covering a wide range of pricing, and at the same time, we also have KZ pumping out 100 different IEMs from $10 to $200 price bracket with every single model claimed to be competing with those $1-2K priced sets. While I like some of their products, some I don't at all.

From my understanding, some brands have developed(or I can phrase this as, Marketed) themselves as premium sound leaders, where each product will have a lot of description about the customized/brand of the drivers being used, the amount of dedication that has gone in designing that CNC-machined Chamber, or how much purity of the stock cable material has. But how much improvement that has in the sound quality is debatable and whether that amount is actually worth the sound quality depends from person to person. If you like a sound, then investing your maximum budget on it is okay, if you don't like the sound a product offers, even a 50% off deal is not worth it.

IMO, for an audiophile, most value for their money lies in the under $500 and max under $1K price brackets. I won't say there are no noticeable improvements in the flagship/summit-fi level stuff obviously they have better technicalities, etc. In the end, Brand also knows how to market themselves, they can not sell OP items just with the marketing gimmicks, they offer improvements, but whether that improvement is worth it for an audiophile with the amount of money it is increasing is, well Individual choice. Everybody sets their own bar for maximum investment in any given category, for me I would at max spend $2k of my own money for an IEM(whether new or old).

 

[Ike1985]

I would say, a lot of things have to be seen when it comes to pricing. A premium brand from the US/UK and other Western countries will come up with either 1-2 products in a year priced in the mid to top-tier brackets while Chi-Fi brands will release 10-15 products in the same time span sometimes covering a wide range of pricing, and at the same time, we also have KZ pumping out 100 different IEMs from $10 to $200 price bracket with every single model claimed to be competing with those $1-2K priced sets. While I like some of their products, some I don't at all.

From my understanding, some brands have developed(or I can phrase this as, Marketed) themselves as premium sound leaders, where each product will have a lot of description about the customized/brand of the drivers being used, the amount of dedication that has gone in designing that CNC-machined Chamber, or how much purity of the stock cable material has. But how much improvement that has in the sound quality is debatable and whether that amount is actually worth the sound quality depends from person to person. If you like a sound, then investing your maximum budget on it is okay, if you don't like the sound a product offers, even a 50% off deal is not worth it.

IMO, for an audiophile, most value for their money lies in the under $500 and max under $1K price brackets. I won't say there are no noticeable improvements in the flagship/summit-fi level stuff obviously they have better technicalities, etc. In the end, Brand also knows how to market themselves, they can not sell OP items just with the marketing gimmicks, they offer improvements, but whether that improvement is worth it for an audiophile with the amount of money it is increasing is, well Individual choice. Everybody sets their own bar for maximum investment in any given category, for me I would at max spend $2k of my own money for an IEM(whether new or old).

Agreed, what are your thoughts on the HE1, i've wanted to hear that forever.

 

[gadgetgod]

Agreed, what are your thoughts on the HE1, i've wanted to hear that forever.

It sounds really good, big, massive, rich, and organic. Every good audiophile term, I can assign it to the HE1. But the price, well, that is something that is, hmmmmm Insane? lol. If I have that much money, I will go for a really good speaker setup and every night listening to my favourite melodies while sipping some Single Malt Whiskey right in front of it. For Headphones, my end would be set at Raal Immanis which I heard during the SG Canjam last year.

 

[Ike1985]

It sounds really good, big, massive, rich, and organic. Every good audiophile term, I can assign it to the HE1. But the price, well, that is something that is, hmmmmm Insane? lol. If I have that much money, I will go for a really good speaker setup and every night listening to my favourite melodies while sipping some Single Malt Whiskey right in front of it. For Headphones, my end would be set at Raal Immanis which I heard during the SG Canjam last year.

But if you go for a speaker than you have to share the magic, not exclusive anymore.

 

[gadgetgod]

But if you go for a speaker than you have to share the magic, not exclusive anymore.

HE1 also needs a dedicated silent room for full potential, since they are open back I mean. I miss those days, a friend used to work in Sennheiser India and we used to plan 1-2 meetups every year in their office. He used to set up the HE1 in a room for us and we used to be there for the complete day listening to the HE1. Sadly that friend ventured ahead into a different organization(not related to audio).

 

[FreeWheelinAudioLuv2]

I would say, a lot of things have to be seen when it comes to pricing. A premium brand from the US/UK and other Western countries will come up with either 1-2 products in a year priced in the mid to top-tier brackets while Chi-Fi brands will release 10-15 products in the same time span sometimes covering a wide range of pricing, and at the same time, we also have KZ pumping out 100 different IEMs from $10 to $200 price bracket with every single model claimed to be competing with those $1-2K priced sets. While I like some of their products, some I don't at all.

From my understanding, some brands have developed(or I can phrase this as, Marketed) themselves as premium sound leaders, where each product will have a lot of description about the customized/brand of the drivers being used, the amount of dedication that has gone in designing that CNC-machined Chamber, or how much purity of the stock cable material has. But how much improvement that has in the sound quality is debatable and whether that amount is actually worth the sound quality depends from person to person. If you like a sound, then investing your maximum budget on it is okay, if you don't like the sound a product offers, even a 50% off deal is not worth it.

IMO, for an audiophile, most value for their money lies in the under $500 and max under $1K price brackets. I won't say there are no noticeable improvements in the flagship/summit-fi level stuff obviously they have better technicalities, etc. In the end, Brand also knows how to market themselves, they can not sell OP items just with the marketing gimmicks, they offer improvements, but whether that improvement is worth it for an audiophile with the amount of money it is increasing is, well Individual choice. Everybody sets their own bar for maximum investment in any given category, for me I would at max spend $2k of my own money for an IEM(whether new or old).

For the manufacturers, it's about how much is someone willing to pay? Oriolus hit the jackpot, because they realized, there's folks in Japan and around the word willing to plunk $10,000 on an IEM, who's internals are THE SAME as something selling for $2,000. But the market is there, so good for them.

It also comes down to each person's lifestyle and earning power, but also are you single? married? family? How involved is your spouse? What I mean by that is, my wife and I make a very good living, but would she let me spend 2K on an IEM?! Absolutely NOT. Would she allow me to spend 1K on an IEM?! Sure. She let me spend nearly $800.00 on the Oracle MK III, and even pitched in for it. But going above that, as @warrenpchi mentioned, I'd have to sell off some of my gear to help fund that 2K purchase, and I'm perfectly fine with that, if that's what it took, but my familial responsibilities or shared responsibilities would keep me from just dipping into the bank acct and buying a Anni 2023 without a sell off. But some folks make more than my wife and I combined, or don't have any responsibilities outside of themselves, and I don't hold that against them. If you want to spend $4,000 for a faceplate, without any improvement in sound from the regular version, then by all means! But at that point, you're not buying something for sound. You're buying it as a collectors piece. Like fine art, because this same IEM exists for much cheaper. So yeah, tricky questions, with no easy answer. What's the intrinsic value of something? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

 

[Ike1985]

For the manufacturers, it's about how much is someone willing to pay? Oriolus hit the jackpot, because they realized, there's folks in Japan and around the word willing to plunk $10,000 on an IEM, who's internals are THE SAME as something selling for $2,000. But the market is there, so good for them.

It also comes down to each person's lifestyle and earning power, but also are you single? married? family? How involved is your spouse? What I mean by that is, my wife and I make a very good living, but would she let me spend 2K on an IEM?! Absolutely NOT. Would she allow me to spend 1K on an IEM?! Sure. She let me spend nearly $800.00 on the Oracle MK III, and even pitched in for it. But going above that, as @warrenpchi mentioned, I'd have to sell off some of my gear to help fund that 2K purchase, and I'm perfectly fine with that, if that's what it took, but my familial responsibilities or shared responsibilities would keep me from just dipping into the bank acct and buying a Anni 2023 without a sell off. But some folks make more than my wife and I combined, or don't have any responsibilities outside of themselves, and I don't hold that against them. If you want to spend $4,000 for a faceplate, without any improvement in sound from the regular version, then by all means! But at that point, you're not buying something for sound. You're buying it as a collectors piece. Like fine art, because this same IEM exists for much cheaper. So yeah, tricky questions, with no easy answer. What's the intrinsic value of something? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

6 months seems like a long time to wait when you're paying that much

https://shop.musicteck.com/products/oriolus-traillii-ti-dragon-faceplate

 

[Tanalasta]

6 months seems like a long time to wait when you're paying that much

https://shop.musicteck.com/products/oriolus-traillii-ti-dragon-faceplate

$10000 should be the entry level for IEMs… (I’m assuming you mean USD. I will stand corrected if you meant Chinese Yuan)

6 months is too long to wait for a small production, built to order IEM.

I’m not sure if you have reflected how these statements come across to the average person. I will respectfully disagree.

异军突起，不可长也

 

[Conan1974]

 

[MakeItWain]

I’m trying… I usually so pragmatic and give people the benefit of the doubt.

Making my man @Aetherhole lay the verbal smackdown in here, dang.

Please give IER Z1R a try too, if you can compare some $5-6K iem's with one. You'll be surprised.

I tried the Z1R at SoCal CanJam and man, that IEM is really, really nice. Bass there is so much better than graphs can ever indicate.

 

[Ike1985]

$10000 should be the entry level for IEMs… (I’m assuming you mean USD. I will stand corrected if you meant Chinese Yuan)

6 months is too long to wait for a small production, built to order IEM.

I’m not sure if you have reflected how these statements come across to the average person. I will respectfully disagree.

异军突起，不可长也

IDK why this is in my profile. I didn't put it there or I did it by accident. How do I remove it. USD.

我可以有 芝士汉堡

https://www.douyin.com/video/7397295313851043082

 

[aaf evo]

Making my man @Aetherhole lay the verbal smackdown in here, dang.

I tried the Z1R at SoCal CanJam and man, that IEM is really, really nice. Bass there is so much better than graphs can ever indicate.

One of these is the Z1R the other is the Traillii.. Pic cuts off ~250hz. Yet there's a content creator team out there that.. ugh, nvm.

 

[gadgetgod]

It also comes down to each person's lifestyle and earning power, but also are you single? married? family? How involved is your spouse? What I mean by that is, my wife and I make a very good living, but would she let me spend 2K on an IEM?! Absolutely NOT. Would she allow me to spend 1K on an IEM?! Sure. She let me spend nearly $800.00 on the Oracle MK III, and even pitched in for it.

I would also agree here bro. I also fund new purchases by letting go of the previous ones, My wife isn't too much into the hobby, but you know, she is a slight bit of cooperative. But again, she won't allow me to spend all my money on a single piece of gear. Buying that $2k worth of IEM, it would take me a long period of time and planning.

Yes, Collector stuff is different. My other hobby is gaming, but I have never bought a collector's edition of any game ever because those goodies don't mean anything to me and I will definitely end up wasting them in my collection. "You can't put a price tag on a Collector product", this is my thinking about these face panel changes for thousands of dollars with no sound improvements. Your last line exactly shares the thought behind these Collector products.

The max I can shell out is 50-60$ over the retail price if I want to go for some custom design that would make my pair look unique. Anything above that? i am happy with the retail unit.

 

[Neweymatt]

IDK why this is in my profile. I didn't put it there or I did it by accident. How do I remove it. USD.

我可以有 芝士汉堡

LOL, I wonder if @warrenpchi mighta done that

 

[Ike1985]

LOL, I wonder if @warrenpchi mighta done that

Ok cool, as long as someone did it on purpose thats fine. Just didnt' want to be an idiot and screw it up by accident. I like it if he did it, leave it, finally I have earned my place.