[drftr]

How good are desktop equipment for IEMs? With my N30, but also with other DAC/AMPs I have tested, I have found that I find low-gain better overall; otherwise the sound with high-gain and the like or more voltage is for me generally too clear, sharp / not musical enough, less black background, the sound expands too much and loses cohesion.

Could be that with high gain you're pressing the amp far too much. Volume-wise this should work, but you're quickly losing all overhead you'd normally need for otherwordly dynamics, imaging, et cetera.

Both a "shopping car" and a Ferrari will make it to 180 km/hr, but I'd consider the Ferrari as the desktop version with ample reserves.

drftr

 

[warrenpchi]

Very nice! It's the first I've heard of Romeo, I'll look out for that.

Both @Rockwell75 and I fell for it hard on the first listen, even though we have somewhat different preferences overall. Above and beyond its sound, in order for something to resonate with both of us at once, that signals to me that there's something truly unique about it.

 

[phiemon]

Could be that with high gain you're pressing the amp far too much. Volume-wise this should work, but you're quickly losing all overhead you'd normally need for otherwordly dynamics, imaging, et cetera.

Both a "shopping car" and a Ferrari will make it to 180 km/hr, but I'd consider the Ferrari as the desktop version with ample reserves.

drftr

Yes ok, I knew that too. But that's why I'm wondering whether and to what extent desktop DAC/AMP stacks are suitable for IEMs. @Sajid Amit and @Simpeler wrote that the desktop equipment they tried was so great... if that means that the sound changes as I said, then I don't know...

 

[drftr]

Yes ok, I knew that too. But that's why I'm wondering whether and to what extent desktop DAC/AMP stacks are suitable for IEMs. @Sajid Amit and @Simpeler wrote that the desktop equipment they tried was so great... if that means that the sound changes as I said, then I don't know...

Visit System Referenz and demo Accuphase? No need to rely on other peoples' opinions. Debunk the myth or become a new ambassador.

drftr

 

[Simpeler]

How good are desktop equipment for IEMs? With my N30, but also with other DAC/AMPs I have tested, I have found that I find low-gain better overall; otherwise the sound with high-gain and the like or more voltage is for me generally too clear, sharp / not musical enough, less black background, the sound expands too much and loses cohesion.

I guess that depends on the amp, I have tested amps that indeed generated to much background noise. Or colored the sound to much.

That is why I ended up with the dcs lina amp, to my ears perfect black background.

Now as to how it affects sound, for me it expands the sound in the 3d space. And the impact becomes bigger. Its hard to quantify and I hate the term “speaker-like”. But that is how I experience it. Sound temperature stays the same with this amp, the technicalities improve.

Both the Jewel and the Supreme v3 benefit greatly in my opinion. Even the CP622B improves.

But as always, it depends on what you think of as an improvement.

 

[phiemon]

Visit System Referenz and demo Accuphase? No need to rely on other peoples' opinions. Debunk the myth or become a new ambassador.

drftr

Yes, a good idea in itself, but I'm probably too lazy to go there. It's more comfortable asking here

I guess that depends on the amp, I have tested amps that indeed generated to much background noise. Or colored the sound to much.

That is why I ended up with the dcs lina amp, to my ears perfect black background.

Now as to how it affects sound, for me it expands the sound in the 3d space. And the impact becomes bigger. Its hard to quantify and I hate the term “speaker-like”. But that is how I experience it. Sound temperature stays the same with this amp, the technicalities improve.

Both the Jewel and the Supreme v3 benefit greatly in my opinion. Even the CP622B improves.

But as always, it depends on what you think of as an improvement.

... in fact, that's not the answer I expected. There must be something about this type of AMP that is different from what I know. Such improvements "sound" good. When I have the time and the inclination, I'll go and have a look myself.

 

[drftr]

It's more comfortable asking here

Not for us buddy. I suggest you do (y)our homework and we'll doubt and question you instead

drftr

 

[gLer]

Yes, a good idea in itself, but I'm probably too lazy to go there. It's more comfortable asking here


... in fact, that's not the answer I expected. There must be something about this type of AMP that is different from what I know. Such improvements "sound" good. When I have the time and the inclination, I'll go and have a look myself.

It's just physics. Larger desktop amps have far more real estate for larger capacitors and other high-grade audio hardware, plus a much beefier power supply. This gives them far more drive, and if an IEM is able to scale to take advantage of that drive, it will sound 'bigger', more spacious, more effortless. This won't work for all IEMs, and you also have to take amp/DAC colouration into account, so different combinations of amp/DAC/IEM will sound different (and not always positively so) depending on synergy.

 

[warrenpchi]

So a little while ago, I decided to do something a little crazy.

Curious as to just whether any of these budget stalwarts were actually the "giant killers" that some have claimed them to be, I went on a mini-spree and picked up a handful of units to survey. And thanks to the generosity of some Watercoolers, there's even a bonus unit to check out, in the form of a CCA Trio.

I've been a little busy as of late, so the units have just been sitting there, undergoing what I call passive burn-in. But now, it looks like I'll finally be able to get to them this coming weekend!

I have no idea what to expect, let's see how this goes!

 

[phiemon]

Not for us buddy. I suggest you do (y)our homework and we'll doubt and question you instead

drftr

Come on, don't be so hard on me . I think the question is quite interesting, and I'm sure there are others who are interested in knowing what's going on. It was an issue for me until recently. The issue had died down until I read the posts today. I thought I already had the answer to my question. Besides, believe me, I'm the last person who is really that lazy and relies on others for answers like that. It's just different with such AMPs. Otherwise, I like to try things myself.

It's just physics. Larger desktop amps have far more real estate for larger capacitors and other high-grade audio hardware, plus a much beefier power supply. This gives them far more drive, and if an IEM is able to scale to take advantage of that drive, it will sound 'bigger', more spacious, more effortless. This won't work for all IEMs, and you also have to take amp/DAC colouration into account, so different combinations of amp/DAC/IEM will sound different (and not always positively so) depending on synergy.

So that piques my curiosity again. In this respect, I think it's good that I asked. Thank you for the valuable information.

 

[SteveK27]

So a little while ago, I decided to do something a little crazy.

Curious as to just whether any of these budget stalwarts were actually the "giant killers" that some have claimed them to be, I went on a mini-spree and picked up a handful of units to survey. And thanks to the generosity of some Watercoolers, there's even a bonus unit to check out, in the form of a CCA Trio.



I've been a little busy as of late, so the units have just been sitting there, undergoing what I call passive burn-in. But now, it looks like I'll finally be able to get to them this coming weekend!



I have no idea what to expect, let's see how this goes!

Oh God this is so exciting as I'm quite literally in the same boat as you. Recently purchased at least a dozen different budget-fi to see how far the floor has risen up.

I highly recommend you to try the newest offerings from KZ, CCA, and TRN as all the models I'm seeing here are relatively older models (with exception to Trio).

I've been rocking the TRN Conch lately as I've fallen head over heels with it.

My verdict is that there absolutely are gems down here that gets overlooked as its stock cable do not do any justice to how well it performs on a more fleshed out setup.

Admittedly, budget-fi do feel like rolling a roulette as some do come across beyond underwhelming. But I find that experience to be part of the joy in search for an affordable audiophile experience.

 

[warrenpchi]

Oh God this is so exciting as I'm quite literally in the same boat as you. Recently purchased at least a dozen different budget-fi to see how far the floor has risen up.

Really? Which dozen?

I highly recommend you to try the newest offerings from KZ, CCA, and TRN as all the models I'm seeing here are relatively older models (with exception to Trio).

Oh, I was VERY specific about the ones I chose. I wanted ones with a good and long history of having been held up as budget champions, and I wanted non-collab models.

I've been rocking the TRN Conch lately as I've fallen head over heels with it.

I can't remember exactly who atm, but a few WC have been posting about that one actually.

 

[SteveK27]

Really? Which dozen?



Oh, I was VERY specific about the ones I chose. I wanted ones with a good and long history of having been held up as budget champions, and I wanted non-collab models.



I can't remember exactly who atm, but a few WC have been posting about that one actually.

It's been a combination of both purchases and units I've heard borrowed from friends - Fiio FD11, SGOR Adonis, Tangzu Wan ER, KZ D-Fi, KZ Vader, KZ AS16 Pro X, KZ ESX, CCA Lyra, CCA Hydro, KZ Castor (both Harman target and "improved bass" version), TRN Azure Dragon, NiceHCK Himalaya, ND X12, CJV Konoka, 7hz Zero 2, KZ EDX Pro, KZ x HBB PR2, ARTTI R3 and more that I honestly cannot remember.

It's fun and refreshing to roll around a new territory I haven't ventured in deeply

 

[Simpeler]

Oh God this is so exciting as I'm quite literally in the same boat as you. Recently purchased at least a dozen different budget-fi to see how far the floor has risen up.

I highly recommend you to try the newest offerings from KZ, CCA, and TRN as all the models I'm seeing here are relatively older models (with exception to Trio).

I've been rocking the TRN Conch lately as I've fallen head over heels with it.

My verdict is that there absolutely are gems down here that gets overlooked as its stock cable do not do any justice to how well it performs on a more fleshed out setup.

Admittedly, budget-fi do feel like rolling a roulette as some do come across beyond underwhelming. But I find that experience to be part of the joy in search for an affordable audiophile experience.

Maybe offtopic, but sweet keyboard you got there. Custom?

 

[drftr]

It's been a combination of both purchases and units I've heard borrowed from friends - Fiio FD11, SGOR Adonis, Tangzu Wan ER, KZ D-Fi, KZ Vader, KZ AS16 Pro X, KZ ESX, CCA Lyra, CCA Hydro, KZ Castor (both Harman target and "improved bass" version), TRN Azure Dragon, NiceHCK Himalaya, ND X12, CJV Konoka, 7hz Zero 2, KZ EDX Pro, KZ x HBB PR2, ARTTI R3 and more that I honestly cannot remember.

It's fun and refreshing to roll around a new territory I haven't ventured in deeply

Yo bro! Super glad to run into you every now and then!

Are you trying to find out what they can deliver with a better source and cable than you'd normally do in the price class? Like, seeing how well they scale and perhaps coming to the conclusion it's not necessarily the IEM that makes or breaks your entry into head-fi heaven?

I once did something similar with Rogers LS3/5a speakers ($1.500 per pair at the time), put them on a top notch chain, then compare them with speakers 10 times the price. Some extremely serious surprises, so if you're in for that...

drftr