[Chang]

So, 6000 USD + 20% (?) customs duties.

All these price increases (yep, Oriolus with Ti, UM with FS and now STORM) are getting really, really annoying. On the other hand, there are TOTLs like Anni 2023 and Raven that cost half as much and are just as capable (if not more in some circumstances). Trifecta, Fir Audio's Xe6 and Rn6 cost just about €2000 used and for me personally and according to WT Pools they still belong at the top. As far as I am personally concerned, I simply cannot justify much higher sums. I mean: STORM = Xe6 + Rn6 + Trifecta .

Too bad, that was it with STORM: I'm out.

Sorry for dragging it down, I just wanted to let out a little frustration. I wish you every success, you'll sell everything anyway.

That's perfectly fine, STORM is a a no-holes-barred halo product that is also demanding of the user in its chain requirements. The performance ceiling of STORM is extreme as that was one of the design objectives and goals we set for ourselves, but that's something that not everyone needs or even wants for that matter. Whether you require that extreme is entirely dependent on your preferences, listening habits and library. We definitely believe STORM does things that no other IEM can do and for that reason alone justifies its existence, yet also acknowledging that the resulting cost in achieving that puts it out of reach of many.

We will have other more affordable offerings in the future that will implement what we have learned from the STORM's development and we aim for them to be as impressive as STORM is in their respective price tiers. But STORM was first and foremost designed for ourselves. With the entire team having explored the TOTL tier of the portable market for a fair number of years before we started Subtonic, there wasn't really anything we would want to make other than something that really stood out and had performance characteristics that we have been looking for but haven't found.

I like the STORM, I like your engagement with the community and when I met you briefly at CJ London you seemed like a lovely guy, so I ask this with respect: why wait for individuals to ask you at a show, why not blow the skepticism out of the water for us here?

There's increased scrutiny of TOTL prices recently (rightly so) and maybe this is all a symptom of a lack of insight and understanding on our part?

I don't think it's fair to ask us or any of our industry peers for that matter to list down a cost breakdown permanently on a public forum if that's what you're asking for. If yourself or anyone else has any specific questions, you can ask them here and I'll answer to the extent that we're comfortable with. That's more of what I meant when I mentioned talking to us at shows as it's easier to explain and provide the proper context and explanations of what can and can't be disclosed in person, rather than type out an essay of disclaimers and caveats with every statement that would be necessary with permenant public post in a setting like this forum. We will probably make a blog post in time to provide as complete a picture as possible for everyone to refer to.

 

[slumberman]

I really don't know, I was just quoting what the others generally say. It may also be because these people didn't run STORM properly, so underpowered, which may well be the case, considering how demanding it is. I personally never listened STORM, but my interest just died as of today.

With all due respect, going off on something based on opinions from others and not having heard it at all is just about the wrongest thing you can do in this hobby.

 

[psklrdk]

With all due respect, going off on something based on opinions from others and not having heard it at all is just about the wrongest thing you can do in this hobby.

I could not agree more. The best way to make personal opinion is to hear the gear on the known personal chain.

 

[MatW]

With all due respect, going off on something based on opinions from others and not having heard it at all is just about the wrongest thing you can do in this hobby.

You can argue about the tone of voice but basically he’s saying that 6k + 25% = 7.5k is putting it in unaffordable territory for him. That’s not a strange position to take. As much as I love this hobby, I also find that hard to stomach for one IEM. But everyone is free to set their own budgets of course, and this is a clear case of take it or leave it, up for each and all to decide for themselves.

 

[Leonarfd]

Finished my review on the LAVRiCABLES MASTER SILVER 22AWG

Good silver cables always impress me, and its my faovorite type of cable to use on almost every IEM.
Lavricables deliver something that is probably one of the best cables you can get at the price.
No bull___t approach where you pay for the cable and not premium presentation and accessories.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/lavricable-master-silver-v4.27143/review/33426/

 

[Scubadevils]

Finished my review on the LAVRiCABLES MASTER SILVER 22AWG

Good silver cables always impress me, and its my faovorite type of cable to use on almost every IEM.
Lavricables deliver something that is probably one of the best cables you can get at the price.
No bull___t approach where you pay for the cable and not premium presentation and accessories.

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/lavricable-master-silver-v4.27143/review/33426/

Oh that looks a beautiful cable!

 

[phiemon]

With all due respect, going off on something based on opinions from others and not having heard it at all is just about the wrongest thing you can do in this hobby.

Of course, I don't blindly listen to the opinions of others, especially as they are far too different. You always find contradictory impressions. But they can certainly serve as a very rough guide and that is also their function for me. So far I haven't been disappointed, I always knew what I was getting myself into. I don't mean that I would necessarily find STORM analytical and sterile either; on the contrary, I might like it precisely because of that. Mine was just a general observation. An example: I have never found Anni to be particularly bright, although it is generally known to be bright.

I could not agree more. The best way to make personal opinion is to hear the gear on the known personal chain.

Yes, of course, we all agree on that. But what do we do if that's not possible? That's right: at least take a broad view of different opinions.

You can argue about the tone of voice but basically he’s saying that 6k + 25% = 7.5k is putting it in unaffordable territory for him. That’s not a strange position to take. As much as I love this hobby, I also find that hard to stomach for one IEM. But everyone is free to set their own budgets of course, and this is a clear case of take it or leave it, up for each and all to decide for themselves.

That's exactly how it is. For me personally, it's a question of principle: 7.5k for one TOTL or for several used/like-new TOP-TOTLs that might move musically even more? If anything, I'll wait for STORM to show up in Classified for a good price.

 

[maegnificant]

https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...5S18TpnXj6Z9izpGjOhEOESCF-I-6Nwu0xf51R.YduXAQ

I am extremely tempted right now...

Update: I have lost the battle. The fight did not last long.

 

[slumberman]

That's exactly how it is. For me personally, it's a question of principle: 7.5k for one TOTL or for several used/like-new TOP-TOTLs that might move musically even more? If anything, I'll wait for STORM to show up in Classified for a good price.

The fact that you pay 25% in custom tax (occasionally), is not a reflection on the companies’ price increases, but rather a personal reaction to the policies of your country’s customs.
You could go to Canjam London, test them AND buy them from Elise Audio, and skip all that, let alone enjoy one of the most unique experiences when it comes to our community.

Get that passport ready, @phiemon !

 

[ian91]

I don't think it's fair to ask us or any of our industry peers for that matter to list down a cost breakdown permanently on a public forum if that's what you're asking for. If yourself or anyone else has any specific questions, you can ask them here and I'll answer to the extent that we're comfortable with. That's more of what I meant when I mentioned talking to us at shows as it's easier to explain and provide the proper context and explanations of what can and can't be disclosed in person, rather than type out an essay of disclaimers and caveats with every statement that would be necessary with permenant public post in a setting like this forum. We will probably make a blog post in time to provide as complete a picture as possible for everyone to refer to.

I wasn't asking for a breakdown and I understand why that would be unfair to expect. I was asking for a 'complete a picture as possible' as you put it and I look forward to reading the blog post.

This is another point: potential customers like myself, who have zero business, audio or manufacturing experience, might not be equipped to ask specific questions. Instead we're left scratching our chins at the increase in price despite great interest in the product. In the absence of information, we will fill in the gaps with speculation or oversimplification of the production process (e.g. 'I didn't know BA's had undergone such dramatic inflation!'). This is not a jab at Subtonic specifically, as a company you appear to have the most respect for your customers and like to keep them informed, but more generally at the top end of the market. I think a large portion of the skepticism you mentioned is because as customers, we want to know more but may not be able to ask the right questions.

I look forward to having my own skepticism addressed with information you feel you can share.

 

[phiemon]

The fact that you pay 25% in custom tax (occasionally), is not a reflection on the companies’ price increases, but rather a personal reaction to the policies of your country’s customs.
You could go to Canjam London, test them AND buy them from Elise Audio, and skip all that, let alone enjoy one of the most unique experiences when it comes to our community.

Get that passport ready, @phiemon !

True, but it remains the original price of around 6000 USD - Chong has suggested that the price is not yet fixed and could even be more.

 

[berger]

U12t in 2017: 1999 US dollars

U12t in 2024: 1999 dollars

after all these years, same price yet better.
as a consumer I hope brands could be more like @64Audio

 

[CharlyBrown]

if you don't look at the LE vs Reg Storm side by side and just looked at the Reg L/R as a matching pair, it looks pretty good. (although im not sure why the headfi demo is so beat up looking)

Yes, true

But if you saw the original version you cannot unsee it, unfortunately

 

[mbirand]

they just keep getting better with "more".

this is true (by personal experience). idk if its a good thing or not but very true.

 

[MatW]

The fact that you pay 25% in custom tax (occasionally), is not a reflection on the companies’ price increases, but rather a personal reaction to the policies of your country’s customs.
You could go to Canjam London, test them AND buy them from Elise Audio, and skip all that, let alone enjoy one of the most unique experiences when it comes to our community.

Get that passport ready, @phiemon !

I think the more customer friendly option is to nominate a dealer in the EU. I hope they do and then I might buy. I’m not flying to London for an IEM.

Canjam London I’m not decided on. I hear it’s less appealing in terms of manufacturer turnout than most other locations. I think I’d prefer our EU WC meetings. We are in the process of deciding the next location.