I think the opposite is true, and the pro marker will always be bigger than the enthusiast space will ever be. Literally, 1 pop artist (like Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars, etc.) going on tour with backup dancers and a band is an order of about 20-25 pairs of CIEMs, and they usually order new ones every time to fit that specific tour’s aesthetic. A local brand here in Indonesia, Avara Custom, serves the vast majority of the country’s pros, and they say the business they make from it is enough to not even think about audiophiles. They haven’t released a new product in like 5 years, because they keep getting orders from artists for their current lineup. The same goes for brands like FitEar in Japan, or Alclair in the US church scene.
So, I think it isn’t an issue of the pro scene being too small. It’s either because of increased competition from brands like 64 and FiR - the latter of whom just did the customs for Taylor Swift’s Eras tour and Usher’s Half-Time Show, which would’ve been JH all the way a few years ago - or it’s because of expenditures that they expected to, but failed to, recoup.
Having previously been a CEO of a few companies and a VP of buying department for a very large company. Professionals all receive discounts directly from the manufacturer and any that are well know enough want everything free. Then professionals like back up people will buy maybe two units and keep them for years until they fully fail and can no longer be repaired. While enthusiast markets might seem like a smaller group of people to you but they tend to buy multiple units and replace units much more frequently. Enthusiast follow trends and new products, professional only upgrade when they absolutely have to. Along with enthusiast who purchase their units with higher profit margins as well as allow for distribution to retail stores for resale. It’s a different market. I’m guessing in today’s environment a company needs both to survive unless they’re high volume and/or high profit. I’m also positive that universal IEMs are much less to mass produce over CIEMs and if you charge the same or even less to purchase the custom for a professional which involves personalized and more labor than you definitely are not going to be as profitable as the company selling mass produced. Just another side of the coin from a businessman’s prospective.
The thing about the constant changing of CIEMs I mentioned earlier (different tour aesthetics, different album eras, etc.) is that you have to constantly fight year after year to be that artist’s (or their record label’s) go-to brand. It’s almost like fighting to be the FOTM IEM on forums like ours. So, even if you’ve been a JH or 64 client for a decade, if - for any reason; weakening turnaround times, less reliable QC, less impressive PR, sonic preference, etc. - the label or manager suddenly goes, “We’re gonna switch to FiR for this tour,” the artist likely won’t care. All they’ll know is, “Cool, new in-ears.” And, a label or manager could be responsible for hundreds of artists. So, it’s arguably more cutthroat of a business than it is around here.
Only issue with your comment is any famous artist that is also posted with the brand in any way is receiving the IEMs for free. Along with possibly getting paid for sponsorship. And if they want the whole team matching and they are famous, they are most likely getting all of them for free.
Only issue with your comment is any famous artist that is also posted with the brand in any way is receiving the IEMs for free. Along with possibly getting paid for sponsorship. And if they want the whole team matching and they are famous, they are most likely getting all of them for free.
Not true.
No one is getting paid to wear a specific brand In the professional world.
They might get test units for free, but they get charged for all the other ones (back up units for every member, and the crew’s).
What is also generally not true is the switching of brands. When a band and the crew work with a brand of IEMs, unless they have issues with the IEM sound or company, they stick with them for a long time.
There’s literally no reason to be experimenting with this side of the production , given all the other moving pieces in a live show. If it works , and the company is quick and easy to work with, it’s a long relationship.
Not true.
No one is getting paid to wear a specific brand In the professional world.
They might get test units for free, but they get charged for all the other ones (back up units for every member, and the crew’s).
I’ve heard some unconfirmed numbers that FIR paid the whole crew from Super Bowl half time show to wear their IEMs. Advertising always cost money no one famous does anything for free or for just free products.
I’ve heard some unconfirmed numbers that FIR paid the whole crew from Super Bowl half time show to wear their IEMs. Advertising always cost money no one famous does anything for free or for just free products.
We all heard this or that and such.
Rumors, and most likely not true.
Plus there’s literally no professional scenario where a band would get new in ears for such an important show. They would work with something they’re accustomed to for a long time.
You don’t want to be dealing with new tunings, materials, cables, plugs to the wireless pack, unless you have ample time to test the new gear in every scenario.
We all heard this or that and such.
Rumors, and most likely not true.
Plus there’s literally no professional scenario where a band would get new in ears for such an important show. They would work with something they’re accustomed to for a long time.
You don’t want to be dealing with new tunings, materials, cables, plugs to the wireless pack, unless you have ample time to test al lethargy in every scenario.
The Super Bowl is 7 million for a 30 second ad, FIR has multiple ads with all these artists in the weeks before including making their IEM all over their instagram. Now these artists are on their site. And there is very little chance every artist in the Super Bowl half time show would already be using FIR. No famous person in the US would allow a company to use them as an ad all over their site without getting paid.
Reducing how an IEM purportedly sounds into a biviarite chart is the bane of the industry. I appreciate the repository of FR responses floating on the internet, but the subjective factors that can't be quantified have to be "listened to".
Distance from the driver array to the spout/nozzle, mechanical impedance, crossover-type, type of driver, type of chamber (and its resonant properties), the listener's age and cochlear health, venting, capacitance and conductivity of the cables paired, damping factor etc. The list goes on.
I do sympathise with enthusiasts who lack the means to demo these products in a storefront setting.
The Super Bowl is 7 million for a 30 second ad, FIR has multiple ads with all these artists in the weeks before including making their IEM all over their instagram. Now these artists are on their site. And there is very little chance every artist in the Super Bowl half time show would already be using FIR. No famous person in the US would allow a company to use them as an ad all over their site without getting paid.
you keep on believing what you want! It’s a free world. I am not going to be repeating myself nor I feel like I need to explain to you why I wrote what I did, what I do in order to confidently write it, etc, so I’ll just stop talking about it. No point!
Reducing how an IEM purportedly sounds into a biviarite chart is the bane of the industry. I appreciate the repository of FR responses floating on the internet, but the subjective factors that can't be quantified have to be "listened to".
Distance from the driver array to the spout/nozzle, mechanical impedance, crossover-type, type of driver, type of chamber (and its resonant properties), the listener's age and cochlear health, venting, capacitance and conductivity of the cables paired, damping factor etc. The list goes on.
I do sympathise with enthusiasts who lack the means to demo these products in a storefront setting.
FR graphs are useful tools but not perfect by any means. Seeing what something might sound like can be really helpful and they're also useful tools for checking for channel imbalance and imperfections in the build. It's no substitute for hearing, but it helps keep manufactuerers honest and also helps ensure that build quality is better.
The bad is that is has lead to manufactuerers leaning more towards target tuning and less esoteric tunings that might be fun nad interesting for special generes or ears. There are some good IEMs that measure well, but sound bad and some that measure great and sound awful.
FR graphs are useful tools but not perfect by any means. Seeing what something might sound like can be really helpful and they're also useful tools for checking for channel imbalance and imperfections in the build. It's no substitute for hearing, but it helps keep manufactuerers honest and also helps ensure that build quality is better.
The bad is that is has lead to manufactuerers leaning more towards target tuning and less esoteric tunings that might be fun nad interesting for special generes or ears. There are some good IEMs that measure well, but sound bad and some that measure great and sound awful.
I concur. It's the "either-or" dichotomy that bothers me. FR is a useful tool in an engineer's arsenal: a yard-stick that ensures consistency across units manufactured.
The bad is unfortunately pronounced. Esoteric and niche-tunings was what enlivened the hobby . Thankfully, there's still a cottage industry filled with outliers. Dita Audio, Noble, CA etc.
Nowadays, they have those spring-loaded ones, where tiny springs push down on the pins, rather than relying purely on friction to keep them there. Newer IEMs like the Storm and Singularity use them, and they’ve been very secure (without being tight or tough) in my experience.
Having previously been a CEO of a few companies and a VP of buying department for a very large company. Professionals all receive discounts directly from the manufacturer and any that are well know enough want everything free. Then professionals like back up people will buy maybe two units and keep them for years until they fully fail and can no longer be repaired. While enthusiast markets might seem like a smaller group of people to you but they tend to buy multiple units and replace units much more frequently. Enthusiast follow trends and new products, professional only upgrade when they absolutely have to. Along with enthusiast who purchase their units with higher profit margins as well as allow for distribution to retail stores for resale. It’s a different market. I’m guessing in today’s environment a company needs both to survive unless they’re high volume and/or high profit. I’m also positive that universal IEMs are much less to mass produce over CIEMs and if you charge the same or even less to purchase the custom for a professional which involves personalized and more labor than you definitely are not going to be as profitable as the company selling mass produced. Just another side of the coin from a businessman’s prospective.
Discounts are guaranteed for endorsed pros, but 99% of us don’t pay full MSRP when we buy from dealers either. Like in the enthusiast space, one can’t generalize and say all artists keep their customs for ages. As I’ve said, some artists change their whole crew’s customs for a new tour, some churches pay for their artists to do so, some artists still rock JH13’s and UE11’s, etc. Similarly, there are folks here who still have Phonak’s and Shure’s.
Don’t forget that new artists (especially in the US, where JH operate) pop out of nowhere quicker than enthusiasts do, and they usually care more about PR or quality-of-life - brand name, word of mouth, quicker turnaround times, repairs, customer service, etc. - than sound for the most part. Ultimate Ears, for example, are non-existent in the enthusiast space and they apparently had crazy-long lines at NAMM. The same goes for brands like Alclair, which I’m sure 99% of you have never heard of, but are all the rage in the church musician’s scene. So, the pro industry can easily sustain an IEM brand, which further leads me to believe that JH’s case is more about expenditure than income.
Now, the question as to whether or not it’s better for JH to focus on customs or start mass-producing universals, I think, is the wrong question to ask (at least, for their case right now). The question should be, should a company specializing in artists’ customs, who are already on the ropes, divert their dwindling resources towards making universals and risk compromising turnaround times, QC and customer service for the pros they still have left? I think, for the moment, JH have already answered that. They’re doubling down on the Pearl DSP system, and they’re hoping it gives them second wind in the pro scene. All we can do is sit back and see how it does.
Only issue with your comment is any famous artist that is also posted with the brand in any way is receiving the IEMs for free. Along with possibly getting paid for sponsorship. And if they want the whole team matching and they are famous, they are most likely getting all of them for free.
From what I’m told, artists are almost no different to your average paying customer. Obviously, they get benefits like moderate discounts, priority in production and service queues, as well as, say, free designs or refits. But, the way it works is largely the same to an average consumer. You have exceptions for certain A-listers if it’s a big ad campaign, probably, but we also have countless reviewers and review publications here.
EDIT: I should mention that having a picture of their custom posted on socials or simply being listed on a brand’s roster doesn’t typically count as an ad campaign. What I’ve heard from brands I know in the pro scene is that it’s well within their right to do so. Again, you probably have exceptions like if an image of the artist is featured prominently on their website.
What is also generally not true is the switching of brands. When a band and the crew work with a brand of IEMs, unless they have issues with the IEM sound or company, they stick with them for a long time.
There’s literally no reason to be experimenting with this side of the production , given all the other moving pieces in a live show. If it works , and the company is quick and easy to work with, it’s a long relationship.
This is exactly what I mean with regards to whether or not JH should pivot. I don’t think it’s a good idea to commit resources towards a whole new production line and risk compromising their QC, turnaround times, customer service hours, etc., to the artists that are still on their roster. They’d possibly lose decades-long clients with a single misstep, and that might be too big a risk for them to take right now.
you keep on believing what you want! It’s a free world. I am not going to be repeating myself nor I feel like I need to explain to you why I wrote what I did, what I do in order to confidently write it, etc, so I’ll just stop talking about it. No point!
Keep believing famous people do anything without receiving something in return.
I worked with golf manufacturer, tennis manufacturer, ski manufacturer and a photography company. All had to pay professionals to use their names attached to a product. That’s a fact. There’s no way any famous person is going to be willing to be on a site stating they use a product without being reimbursed.
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. Thankfully, there's still a cottage industry filled with outliers. Dita Audio, Noble, CA etc.
