[maegnificant]

Listening at the right volume does not mean not preserving your hearing.
If a DAP has a volume scale of 150 and you use 30/40, you cannot understand the real potential.
If you have a sports car, do you always want to drive it at city car speeds?

I get this argument, but I would still prefer to keep my hearing. Yes, good amps and drivers powered by clean power without distortion can give you louder volumes that damage your hearing LESS. It is still damaging it. Doesn't matter where the loud noise is coming from, at a certain decibel level, you are going to damage your hearing.

I already have a very annoying tinnitus due to some of my own fault, but also because of reckless mixers at concerts where I didn't have ear protection. And loudness just plainly hurts my ears physically. So I can live without going fast, if I can go longer, if you know what I mean. Maybe I am just not a sportscar kind of guy.

*edit* For me it's more about efficiency. Better sources and drivers also sound better at low volumes, in my experience. The dynamics, the details and the basic tuning should be preserved. And your ears adapt to it. If I close my eyes and give it some time, I notice how the music gets more in focus.

 

[subguy812]

Hey all! I am looking for an IEM Christmas present for myself, spending limit is around 2K. I like warmth and bass that doesn't interfere. Any suggestions?

Forgive the avatar, I am still trying to learn this site.

 

[Deezel177]

Ohh okay, I got it. But yeah still the same thing then. He's (not Kevin) thinking that 150 volume step on AK means enough power
Low volume but properly driven is good, loud but not properly driven is another story

Yeah, pretty much. To be fair, I think the SP3K is an excellent-sounding DAP. It’s probably the best execution of A&K’s dainty, refined, laidback house sound, as well as the darkest of their already-impressive backgrounds. Driving power just isn’t something they’ve been known to specialize in. But, that’s what options are for, and the DAP market isn’t lacking those at all.

Hey all! I am looking for an IEM Christmas present for myself, spending limit is around 2K. I like warmth and bass that doesn't interfere. Any suggestions?

Forgive the avatar, I am still trying to learn this site.

Man, your description screams Canpur 622B, but the budget says 54E. The 54E is the 622B’s little brother, and it shares the flagship’s ease, liquidy-ness and balance. It’s a bit more neutral and airy than the warmer 622B, but those qualities I mentioned still lean it closer towards the silkier side. That would probably be my top recommendation.

 

[CharlyBrown]

Here we are, back again at the argument of loud volume = lots of power even though it isn't
Or maybe I just misunderstood your question or maybe @maegnificant statement?
I remember several pages ago, there's this one person here that boasts the 150 volume level on SP3k and think that it has enough juice to drive a hard to drive IEM and he compared it to N30 saying that N30 only has 100 volume level. I giggled everytime I remember that

I was involved and it was just a joke. I thought that would be clear for all the experienced folks here .

Someone posted a pic with his NE30 at 42 or so and said he's destroying his ears with that. Then I posted a pic with the same song and my SP3000 on 44, saying I'll top this, no problem. Knowing, of course, that the NE30 is much louder on 42 than my DAP on 44. Not even taking into consideration that both of us where listening to different IEMs with different power requirements etc.

I'm feeling silly explaining the joke but I think It's better now. Sorry about the confusion...

No need to spend 5k on N30LE when you have DX320 MAX TI.. he he he))

Both not really attractive to me, sorry. You can hate me now. With expensive high end audio gear (especially DAPs) I'm in luxury territory and I want to see and feel this. Yes, guilty as charged. One of the reasons I prefer Astell & Kern. Look & feel from the whole package - device, cases and UI. And it has more than enough amp power for my personal use-cases.

The only other DAP I'd consider would be the Sony 1ZM2*. And that DAP doesn't have a desktop-equivalent powerful amp, as well.

*there are other great options but most have some kind of downside for my use-cases like no streaming, sluggish UI etc.

 

[Beh0lder]

What cable are you using? I’m a huge fan of KK

I ended up with the Noble Upgrade cable with exchangeable connectors. It's flexible, doesn't care whether it's SE or Bal and it's also roughly 1.3 metre in length. Turns out standard 1.2 cables are too short for use with my interface. It also looks slightly more premium than the stock.

 

[Deezel177]

I was involved and it was just a joke. I thought that would be clear for all the experienced folks here .

Someone posted a pic with his NE30 at 42 or so and said he's destroying his ears with that. Then I posted a pic with the same song and my SP3000 on 44, saying I'll top this, no problem. Knowing, of course, that the NE30 is much louder on 42 than my DAP on 44. Not even taking into consideration that both of us where listening to different IEMs with different power requirements etc.

I'm feeling silly explaining the joke but I think It's better now. Sorry about the confusion...



Both not really attractive to me, sorry. You can hate me now. With expensive high end audio gear (especially DAPs) I'm in luxury territory and I want to see and feel this. Yes, guilty as charged. One of the reasons I prefer Astell & Kern. Look & feel from the whole package - device, cases and UI. And it has more than enough amp power for my personal use-cases.

The only other DAP I'd consider would be the Sony 1ZM2*. And that DAP doesn't have a desktop-equivalent powerful amp, as well.

*there are other great options but most have some kind of downside for my use-cases like no streaming, sluggish UI etc.

I’ve been having trouble finding a DAP upgrade with everyone upping their form factors to “phablet” territory (and beyond). I demoed @RonaldS86’s N30LE a few days ago, and I thought I was at the gym swapping plates for a second. I haven’t found a DAP I like better than my trusty LPGT, despite its meager driving power by today’s standards. I can’t wait for Lotoo’s next flagship DAP, and I really hope they don’t stray too far away from the LPGT and P6K in size and weight.

 

[RonaldS86]

I get this argument, but I would still prefer to keep my hearing. Yes, good amps and drivers powered by clean power without distortion can give you louder volumes that damage your hearing LESS. It is still damaging it. Doesn't matter where the loud noise is coming from, at a certain decibel level, you are going to damage your hearing.

I already have a very annoying tinnitus due to some of my own fault, but also because of reckless mixers at concerts where I didn't have ear protection. And loudness just plainly hurts my ears physically. So I can live without going fast, if I can go longer, if you know what I mean. Maybe I am just not a sportscar kind of guy.

*edit* For me it's more about efficiency. Better sources and drivers also sound better at low volumes, in my experience. The dynamics, the details and the basic tuning should be preserved. And your ears adapt to it. If I close my eyes and give it some time, I notice how the music gets more in focus.

This is a Rolls Royce or Bentley way

 

[Lumithium]

If the Storm has these high requirements and scales so much, how can you ever be satisfied with your setup? Say you pay 5k for the Storm and another 5k for e.g. an NE30 to drive it with then probably mediocre quality because it scales much higher and sounds better with a 7k desktop amp. That would make me feel bad.

That's why I love the Utopia so much btw. It's a totl headphone that's easy to drive. I can plug it into my SP3000 and it sounds like liquid gold and I don't need to have that bad feeling, telling me "but it sounded much better with more expensive gear.

I'm still very interested in demoing the Storm, of course. But I really hope that I don't like it

This is a question I wondered a lot as well. Especially in the Susvara thread. The amps just getting more and more expensive. At which point it stops scaling and people saying it is so they don’t have to deal with buyer’s remorse for the purchase of a(nother) 5 figure amplifer.

I own the Susvara and paired it with various amps, ranging from a dongle for jokes and giggles to short demo with EF1000. Apart from the really lack of power at the lower end, the biggest difference to me is the slight difference in the “taste” of the sound. The biggest standout is the 23R, it’s more distinctively different than other amps, but it is really just that, different.

In my experience, it is less that it scales much higher, but more that the subtle differences between the amps that enhances the listening experience for me that makes it stand out. Maybe that is the scaling people are talking about?

 

[subguy812]

Man, your description screams Canpur 622B, but the budget says 54E. The 54E is the 622B’s little brother, and it shares the flagship’s ease, liquidy-ness and balance. It’s a bit more neutral and airy than the warmer 622B, but those qualities I mentioned still lean it closer towards the silkier side. That would probably be my top recommendation.

Thank you! Canpur? I will check them out. I like my Sony's and have tried a couple of earlier Empire Ears. Oh yeah and the 64 Audio Trio, I liked it but couldn't get along with the fit.

 

[CharlyBrown]

I’ve been having trouble finding a DAP upgrade with everyone upping their form factors to “phablet” territory (and beyond). I demoed @RonaldS86’s N30LE a few days ago, and I thought I was at the gym swapping plates for a second. I haven’t found a DAP I like better than my trusty LPGT, despite its meager driving power by today’s standards. I can’t wait for Lotoo’s next flagship DAP, and I really hope they don’t stray too far away from the LPGT and P6K in size and weight.

Higher power requires more space, unfortunately. I even find the SP3000 borderline gym territory. I would like it even better if it was 1-200g lighter.

How was the devices temperature while playing btw? That's also something I like about the A&K, it never gets hot. I had bad experience with Shanling getting too hot.

 

[Deezel177]

Thank you! Canpur? I will check them out. I like my Sony's and have tried a couple of earlier Empire Ears.

Yeah, they’re a newer Dutch brand. Their 622B is in my top 3 for IEM of the year, but I also loved the 54E I tried before it. Do you have a particular favourite from the Sony’s or EE’s you’ve tried? Maybe I can get a feel for your preferences from there.

Higher power requires more space, unfortunately. I even find the SP3000 borderline gym territory. I would like it even better if it was 1-200g lighter.

How was the devices temperature while playing btw? That's also something I like about the A&K, it never gets hot. I had bad experience with Shanling getting too hot.

That’s true. The hope is that miniaturization does its thing, and we get more power in smaller, lighter form factors. On the IEM end, the newer generation of e-stats should get more efficient too. Or, we see a continuation of the Sharona, Fei Wan and VE X, where maybe we don’t need e-stats in our flaghips. All that said, I don’t need a crazy boost from what the LPGT already has. If these scalable IEMs are all gonna be STORM-like in price, then I’m not gonna buy them anyway.

 

[CharlyBrown]

This is a question I wondered a lot as well. Especially in the Susvara thread. The amps just getting more and more expensive. At which point it stops scaling and people saying it is so they don’t have to deal with buyer’s remorse for the purchase of a(nother) 5 figure amplifer.

I own the Susvara and paired it with various amps, ranging from a dongle for jokes and giggles to short demo with EF1000. Apart from the really lack of power at the lower end, the biggest difference to me is the slight difference in the “taste” of the sound. The biggest standout is the 23R, it’s more distinctively different than other amps, but it is really just that, different.

In my experience, it is less that it scales much higher, but more that the subtle differences between the amps that enhances the listening experience for me that makes it stand out. Maybe that is the scaling people are talking about?

That's a very good point and while thinking about the Storm, the Sus would be my headphone equivalent. I demoed it this year at High-End Munich and I really loved it. It was powered by an ifi amp that (I think) was in the 2-3k price range. Many suggest the Bakoon amp, costing even more than the already expensive Sus... held me back from considering this HP. Btw. I was amazed how comfortable they fit vs. my HE1000v2 Stealth I had back then. Also the sound was very different.

Regarding other amps just sound a little different and not necessarily better is something that also came to my mind on different occasions when comparing DAPs, amps etc. Sometimes I hear no difference, at all. Sometimes with a great pair of HPs or IEMs, they sound just "differently great" to me.

 

[subguy812]

Yeah, they’re a newer Dutch brand. Their 622B is in my top 3 for IEM of the year, but I also loved the 54E I tried before it. Do you have a particular favourite from the Sony’s or EE’s you’ve tried? Maybe I can get a feel for your preferences from there.

I have the IER-Z1R, but while it has great bass, I am still looking for something warmer. The Empire Ears Legend X I borrowed for awhile, just not as much detail as I would like, but I did enjoy it. I also borrowed ODIN, but it was a little too harsh. I know the Sony's have been out quite a while but they have sure stood the test of time.

If I have to increase my budget a little I can.

 

[subguy812]

I have the IER-Z1R, but while it has great bass, I am still looking for something warmer. The Empire Ears Legend X I borrowed for awhile, just not as much detail as I would like, but I did enjoy it. I also borrowed ODIN, but it was a little too harsh. I know the Sony's have been out quite a while but they have sure stood the test of time.

If I have to increase my budget a little I can.

I am a tough case huh @Deezel177 ?

 

[Deezel177]

I have the IER-Z1R, but while it has great bass, I am still looking for something warmer. The Empire Ears Legend X I borrowed for awhile, just not as much detail as I would like, but I did enjoy it. I also borrowed ODIN, but it was a little too harsh. I know the Sony's have been out quite a while but they have sure stood the test of time.

If I have to increase my budget a little I can.

I reckon the 54E should still be a safe bet. If you’re in the States, maybe ask Andrew at Musicteck for a demo. The only other IEM I can think of would be the Bellos Audio X4, but that one’s custom-only, which you may not want.